posted on May 11, 2005 08:12:05 PM
Ron didn't that happen out east here and the father just got out of prison,or are you referring to something else?
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Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
Prosecutors: Father Stabbed Girls 30 Times
By NICOLE ZIEGLER DIZON, Associated Press Writer 52 minutes ago
WAUKEGAN, Ill. - The man accused of stabbing to death his 8-year-old daughter and her best friend hunted his child down in a park in a fit of rage because she was supposed to be grounded for stealing money, prosecutors said Wednesday.
A judge denied bail for 34-year-old ex-convict Jerry Hobbs after prosecutors said he admitted in videotaped and written statements to beating and stabbing his daughter Laura Hobbs and 9-year-old Krystal Tobias on Mother's Day.
He claimed the older girl pulled a knife on him, but prosecutors said they doubt that.
The girls were found dead Monday in a park in Zion, the day after they never came back from a bike ride. They had more than 30 stab wounds between them, and Laura was stabbed in each eye, prosecutors said.
"You can see through the injuries to these two individuals the rage that was exhibited. This was a slaughter of two little girls," prosecutor Jeff Pavletic said.
Hobbs, who had been released from a Texas prison last month, said he thought Laura had stolen money from her mother, prosecutors said. She was supposed to be grounded on Mother's Day, but her mother let her go out and play, so Hobbs went out to find her and bring her home, Pavletic said.
"Mr. Hobbs believed that her mother was too lax in her supervision of Laura," the prosecutor said.
But when Hobbs found the girls, Laura refused to go home, and he beat and stabbed the girls with a small kitchen knife, prosecutors said. Hobbs then allegedly dragged them into the woods and left them side-by-side.
Hobbs told investigators that Krystal pulled the knife to defend her friend, and he wrested it away. But prosecutors said they doubt the little girl was carrying a blade.
"It was a brutal beating, repeated punching of the two little girls and then repeated stabs. It's pretty horrible," State's Attorney Michael Waller said.
Hobbs stared at the courtroom floor as Pavletic described the case against him. Public Defender David Brodsky said he had not seen details of the case and could not comment yet, but he said he would assign two capital defenders to represent Hobbs.
A preliminary hearing is scheduled for June 9, but Brodsky said he expects Hobbs will be indicted by a grand jury before then. He also said his office would investigate whether Hobbs' statements should be admissible in court.
Hobbs has a long criminal history dating to 1990 in Texas, including arrests for assault and resisting arrest.
Just last month, he was released from a Texas prison after serving time for an assault in 2001. He had argued with Laura's mother, Sheila Hollabaugh, then grabbed a chain saw and chased neighbors until someone hit him in the back with a shovel, according to prosecutor Rick Mahler in Texas. No one was injured.
Hobbs was sentenced to 10 years' probation but failed to appear for required meetings and was thrown in prison in 2003.
He and Hollabaugh, who never married, had three children together. They were reunited after his release and were living with Hollabaugh's parents in Zion, a town of about 22,000 along Lake Michigan north of Chicago.
Outside the home where Jerry Hobbs and Sheila Hollabaugh had lived with their children, a man who identified himself as a family spokesman Wednesday read a brief statement and said they would have no other comment.
"The entire family wants to express their deepest sympathy for the Tobias family," Jeremy Harter said. "They wanted to thank the Zion community for all their support throughout this trying time."
Down the street, outside Krystal Tobias' home, there was makeshift memorials of flowers and teddy bears on a path leading up to house.
posted on May 12, 2005 12:05:06 AM
Iraq: 100,000 civilians had died - most of them women and children
March 11, 2005
By: Sarah Boseley
Guardian, The
Material by:
Sarah Boseley
Their hard-hitting statement, published online by the British Medical Journal, comes nearly five months after the Lancet published a household survey of civilian deaths in Iraq which estimated that about 100,000 civilians had died - most of them women and children.
posted on May 12, 2005 12:07:20 AM
Children are killed every minute of every day around the whole world and have been since the beginning of time.
Yes, it is especially sad when it's at the hands of a parent but to the dead child it doesn't matter WHO killed them.
posted on May 12, 2005 10:56:47 AM
I thought it bizarre it happened in a place called "Zion" and they never hardly even had crime statistically in most years.
posted on May 12, 2005 02:04:08 PM
Well dbl. Zion was set up as religious town for quite some time until the Athiests got a hold of it and had them remove their religious things. i.e. the Manger scene from city property.
Then the scum moved in and see what happens.
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posted on May 12, 2005 02:24:48 PM
For anyone interested:
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posted on May 12, 2005 02:48:49 PM
REally Libra, is that true?
Cant believe anything hardly you read on this board anymore!
But with a name of a town like that, the implication is so....
..part of my mind just wants to think the devil up and put his azz there to say ha! what do you think of this? I AM and I go wherever I want to... (..Hey just like crowfarm! )
spelling
[ edited by dblfugger9 on May 12, 2005 02:51 PM ]
posted on May 12, 2005 03:27:49 PM
I guess I missed something. Have the religious backgrounds of the family been printed somewhere and we just missed it or are you just assuming they must be atheists?
Your statement would seem to imply that only athiests are murders which I history would prove to be a rather niave comment.
Are mangers supposed to have the same effect on potentional murders that crosses have on vampires? Is that how you made that correlation?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on May 12, 2005 03:29 PM ]
posted on May 12, 2005 04:33:36 PM
My take on what Libra said was that this town was formed as a religious community...where all who lived there held the same moral/value system - agreed with each other in this oh-so-important way of life. Maybe similar to our modern day 'gated-communities'.
That obviously changes when secular people or atheists move in and start changing things to be more PC - removing religion from everything.
This has been going on for years. The less children are raised in a religious atmosphere - taught morals/values/respect for others/a belief system that there is a higher power that's more important than oneself....the more our society has declined. And it continues to do so.
This adult couple and their children were living with their parents. That and the fact that the father was previously in jail for being violent, says a lot about the type of parents they are. The man was obviously filled with rage...or he couldn't have committed such a heinous crime - nor chased their neighbors around with a chain saw.
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Do religious people commit crimes? Sure...it happens. But I also believe that while the secularists and the atheists work to remove religious teachings from our society...they only hurt that society more. And the proof's in the pudding, as they say. Children gang members running wild in the large cities...so many uncontrolled children in the public school system ..in the juvenile court system....etc..etc...etc. SOMEONE'S not teaching them morals/values/citizenship/respect for others/etc.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 04:54:41 PM
In The Beginning
by William Schwager (article published in 1979)
The City of Zion is only 78 years old. This is young by comparison to cities such as Evanston, Highland Park, Waukegan and Kenosha. The city was formally dedicated in July of 1901 by the city’s founder, Dr. John Alexander Dowie.
During the summer of 1900, many visitors came to see the land which development had been announced by Dowie at the All-Night Church Service in Chicago on December 31, 1899 – January 1, 1900.
Dowie had amassed a following of many thousands of worshippers by his ministry of divine healing and preaching salvation through Jesus Christ, which began in 1893 at the main admissions gate to the World’s Columbian Exposition in Jackson Park, Chicago.
Dowie’s concept, was to build a city of God, where his people could work and play, polarized from the so-called sins of the world. The dream was far-reaching and most ambitious. However, like the Garden of Eden before, with man by nature being sinful, in no way could such a Utopian idea survive for long in a materialistic world.
In the beginning, only one church graced the new born city. The Zion Tabernacle of the Christian Catholic Apostolic Church, was a wooden structure which seated 8,000. During special worship services the church was filled to capacity on Easter Sunday, at Christmas and during the Feast of Tabernacles — which was a ten day church celebration every July. The Tabernacle burned to the ground in 1937. Today, on the same Temple Site, stands the beautiful and modern Christian Catholic Church, a complex of several contiguous buildings. The word Apostolic was later dropped from the church's name which had been given by Dowie.
The early settlers of Zion came by wagon from the south, east and west. Hundreds sold their farms and homes to begin a new life from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England, Switzerland, Germany and Holland.
Before the huge Hanseatic designed depot was completed in late 1902, people had to leave the Chicago and North Western trains in Waukegan, covering the last six miles by horse and wagon over rutted and dusty Sheridan Road. About the same time the church-owned ornate wooden Zion Hospice was built with 300 guest rooms, two spacious dining rooms, a large lobby, a roof garden, band dome and four parlors. Today, the building still stands but vacated, waiting for some feasible plan to perpetuate its historic value.
Time has changed the name of this grand and beautiful edifice from Zion Hospice to North Shore Inn, to Zion Home and to Zion Hotel. The three floors of verandah facing Elijah Avenue (now Sheridan Road) became the gallery for watching the annual church parades on July 14th, the birthday of the founding of the first church in Zion.
Today, the City of Zion has twenty-seven different churches with many of them enjoying growing memberships and regular attendance. Several of the places of worship are spin-offs from the first church. However, over the years the many demoninations have established their own faiths such as the Methodists, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals and followers of the Church of Christ.
As long as people by and large continue to worship, the community will continue to grow. From the original church, which started the real estate development nearly eight decades ago, some 20,000 people now live in Zion. The original motto given by Dowie was, “where God rules, man prospers.” Very much like Joshua’s admonition to the people of Israel in 1451 BC after telling his people that they should obey all of the commandments and if they were faithful in their commitment to God, Joshua said, “...for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.” (Joshua 1:8).
posted on May 12, 2005 05:05:46 PM
Here is the webpage with some interesting reading. Besure and read about the Seal of Zion. Then the athieists took them to court and the court ruled they had to take "Under God" of their City Seal.
posted on May 12, 2005 06:50:13 PM
"""SOMEONE'S not teaching them morals/values/citizenship/respect for others/etc."""
You don't need religion to learn ""morals/values/citizenship/respect for others/etc."""
So sorry to disappoint some, but many atheists are moral, have values and respect for others. Belief in a god or gods does NOT automatically make you a good person just as having no belief doesn't automatically make you a bad person .
Maybe if some practiced that "christian" love a little more ....you might change someone's mind .
"""But I also believe that while the secularists and the atheists work to remove religious teachings from our society"""
I don't know of any atheists, myself included, who has worked to remove religious teachings from society...there are plenty of churches, lots of religious organizations, religious groups, homes, schools....
I don't believe that the "religious" people should work to remove atheists nor should they use publically funded venues for their religious symbols or activities.
posted on May 12, 2005 07:15:58 PM
Newdow is the atheist's LEADER in trying to remove anything religious from this Nation. Again, causing it's downward slide because they don't agree with our Constitutional rights.
I get emails all the time with articles just like this...where Christians have to turn to the courts because atheists continue to deny them their rights. And most secularists support them. THAT will NOT be what stops the moral decline of our children.
Ten-year-old student and friends told to put away their Bibles during recess
ADF-allied attorney writes letter to Knoxville school district officials informing them of the unconstitutionality of principal's actions
Wednesday, May 11, 2005, 2:06 PM (MST)
ADF Media Relations | 480-444-0020
A school official cannot tell a student that he can't bring his Bible to school or study it with friends during non-classroom time," said Charles Pope, an ADF-allied attorney.
KNOXVILLE, Tenn.ā€
"A principal at Karns Elementary School is on shaky constitutional ground after telling a group of young students that they cannot bring their Bibles to school or study them during recess, according to a letter written to Knox County School District officials by an ADF-allied attorney.
The Constitution does not prohibit Bibles during recess; it prohibits the wholesale banning of Bibles during recess,"¯ said Charles Pope, the ADF-allied attorney who wrote the letter to the district. "A school official cannot tell a student that he can't bring his Bible to school or study it with friends during non-classroom time."€¯
Ten-year-old student Luke Whitson used his regularly scheduled recess time to read the Bible with a few friends on his school's playground. After receiving a complaint from a parent, the school's principal reportedly ordered the students to stop their activity, put their Bibles away, and cease from bringing their Bibles to school.
"There are no "age discrimination" allowances in the First Amendment of the Constitution. The law protects these students the same as it protects all students,"¯ said ADF Senior Counsel Joseph Infranco.
"Children have rights of speech and association during their non-instructional time, and the school may not curtail those rights because of their age."¯
The students and some of their parents were upset by the principal's actions. After complaining to the school, Whitson's parents sought legal assistance from Pope, of the Athens legal organization JMF Counsel.
The law as it pertains to this situation is well settled. Students may have religious discussions and Bible study during non-instructional time,"¯ Pope explained in his letter. "The school district should immediately issue a statement addressing the unconstitutional actions and policy and alerting all personnel to permit Luke and other similarly situated students to exercise their constitutional rights."¯
We hope the letter will clear up the situation and provide valuable information to the school district on the First Amendment rights of their students,"¯ said Infranco. "An important part of ADF's mission is to help schools understand what the law really says so they can create constitutionally sound policies."¯
ADF is America's largest legal alliance defending religious liberty through strategy, training, funding, and litigation.
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So while you or any other ATHEIST doesn't believe they SHOULD be doing so....that's NOT what the Constitution states. And that's but one reason this President was re-elected. To appoint judges that DO abide by what our founders and our Constitution state as OUR RIGHTS to equal out those ultra-leftie judges who think THEY can make their own laws.
Can't just be happy to have your own freedom to NOT practice any religion...NOPE.....working all the time to TAKE AWAY other's rights to practice theirs. YEA....that will sure help with all the social crisis we're facing as a nation. Reading a Bible is just the worse.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on May 12, 2005 07:20 PM ]
posted on May 12, 2005 07:31:59 PM
LinDUH says, "So while you or any other ATHEIST doesn't believe they SHOULD be doing so...."
Please show me where my name appeared in your C&P.
So why would you think I would disagree with that decision ? Sounds reasonable to me.
I have never tried to take away anyone's rights to practice religion and find your totally unfounded insinuations that I do, or have done, that, is stupidity in the extreme.
Georgie Porgie's justices are picked on their religious beliefs.....very unconstituional.
Correct sentence structure: So while you, or any other atheist, DON'T believe....."
posted on May 12, 2005 07:39:53 PM
From crowfarms post: I don't know of any atheists, myself included, who has worked to remove religious teachings from society...
So crowfarm you are telling me that Madeline Murray O'Hair wasn't the one that started banning Prayer in School. That her son and the ACLU didn't go around suing the cities, like Zion, to remove all religious symbols.
You are also telling me that Newdow didn't try taking "Under God" out of the pledge of allegiance.
posted on May 12, 2005 08:26:16 PM
Trying to weasel out of answering again aren't you. linduh ?
Not surprising...you've never answered any point proving you wrong and there's been so many!
You made fun of helen's typo....so she now doesn't have to answer any of your questions? you seem to think people should.
Here's the post...where's the insult ?
crowfarm
posted on May 12, 2005 07:31:59 PM edit
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LinDUH says, "So while you or any other ATHEIST doesn't believe they SHOULD be doing so...."
Please show me where my name appeared in your C&P.
So why would you think I would disagree with that decision ? Sounds reasonable to me.
I have never tried to take away anyone's rights to practice religion and find your totally unfounded insinuations that I do, or have done, that, is stupidity in the extreme.
Georgie Porgie's justices are picked on their religious beliefs.....very unconstituional.
Correct sentence structure: So while you, or any other atheist, DON'T believe....."
Oh , here's the insult, you are a coward who can never answer pertinent posts proving you wrong.
posted on May 13, 2005 04:15:17 AM
Dble! You have a "groupie!
""Linda_K
posted on May 12, 2005 08:21:32 PM
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lol...that's the truth, dbl. When all else fails, correct grammer and spelling!
and I'll add...start insulting. As soon as they start with the name-calling or insults...that's PROOF they've lost the argument. """
Rules for losers:
When your argument fails start whining about "insults".
(if everybody who insulted anybody in the RT quit posting there would be no RT.....who are you people kidding ??? )
posted on May 13, 2005 05:31:28 AM "As soon as they start with the name-calling or insults...that's PROOF they've lost the argument."
What a hypocratic gem when spoken by the ultimate user of Ad Hominem...Linda.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:
posted on May 13, 2005 10:29:51 AM
And here's helen....once again stepping up on her pedestal to give definitions of words/phrases she thinks ONLY she knows....
ugh..helen...this is just another example of what I meant when I said to you that you come across to me as thinking you're better or that your education makes any difference on a CHAT board.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
