posted on May 15, 2005 07:49:19 PM new
No. Illegal residents cannot vote in the US. Actually, foreign nationals with legal residency are also not allowed to vote. It is only upon becoming a citzen on the US that you are allowed to vote in US elections.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on May 15, 2005 08:13 PM ]
posted on May 15, 2005 08:00:00 PM new
sorry fenix - You are incorrect. Do a quick google on 'illegal non-citizen voting in US' and you will see they most certainly are and have been.
Then you will also read where in some states they allow them to legally vote in local elections...but won't accept their vote in a national election.
THEN you will also come across ALL the leftist groups that are working to make the illegal vote legal in their states.
And this past Nov...in San Francisco...a proposal was made to legally let illegals vote in the school board elections. An education they are receiving illegally. just great.
But there are approx. 20 million illegals in this country today....and THEY'RE voting....as way too many states don't ask for any form of ID and some can't be verified.
Many articles about how the state of Maryland, along with other states, have so much trouble taking the illegals OFF their registered voting lists.
Don't fool yourself...they're voting alright....and many in the democratic party are supporting their efforts.
Read it yourself if you don't believe me. Why do you think there's such a fight over them having a drivers license???? Because of clinton's bill where you get your license and you get to register to vote...all in one. Great system for the illegals who want to vote. Makes it real easy.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 15, 2005 08:23:56 PM new
Linda - I was reffering to national elections and legal voting.
If you want to speak of illegal things that people are able to get away with, well, that's everything.
As for your concept that illegals registered to vote at the DMV, I think you will find that you are woefully incorrect there. You have to show the DMV proof of US citizenship in order to register to vote. I think the direction your finger should be pointed in are the hired hands of both parties every election season that will register any breathing body they can get their hands on in order to collect the $1-$2 per signature bounty they are paid. This is one incident where the political parties stand firmly in the spotlight of blame.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Four More Years....YES!!!
edited to add:
two google searches....read a page or two into the listings...
Article stating there is no way to keep illegals from voting. Not all states have the same registration process. This is 4 years old...I'll trying and find the one I read that speaks to the illegal pop. being 20 million...rather than where it was 4-5 years ago...approx. 11 years ago.
posted on May 15, 2005 09:00:03 PM new
from the WashingTimes...last year.
Note the sources quoted...not the messenger please.
By Robert Redding Jr.
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
ANNAPOLIS ?
Maryland election officials have been stymied in their efforts to purge illegal aliens from the state's voting rolls.
They have begun compiling a database of the state's 3 million registered voters, then they "hope to compare our data with the INS [Immigration and Naturalization Service]," said Linda H. Lamone, the state's elections administrator.
"If we find people who are improperly voting, then we will report them to the proper authorities, which we have done in the past," Mrs. Lamone said.
But Maryland's plan to identify the illegals on its voter rolls doesn't make much sense to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) formerly the INS. Officials there point out that they only keep track of legal immigrants.
Furthermore, the agency said it has to protect the privacy of those aliens.
"From our standpoint, it is important to safeguard the confidentiality of each legal immigrant, especially in light of the federal Privacy Act and the Immigration and Nationality Act," said USCIS spokesman Dan Kane.
Maryland's aims reflect those of other states since the so-called "motor-voter" law in 1993 allowed people to register to vote at the same time they get their driver's license or register their vehicle.
Rep. Henry J. Hyde, Illinois Republican, has introduced a bill that would amend the motor-voter law by requiring voters to provide proof of identification for federal elections. It also would require states to verify that potential voters are citizens before adding their names to voting rolls.
President Clinton signed the motor-voter legislation into law, hailing it for increasing voter participation by simplifying registration. ***But many states do not verify citizenship when residents apply for licenses, which allows noncitizens to get on voting rolls***.
Immigration officials estimate there are between 8 million and 10 million illegal immigrants in the United States ? most of them from Latin America ? and as many as 56,000 in Maryland.
Gilles Burger, chairman of the Maryland State Board of Elections, earlier this month said he was "shocked" to learn that voting rolls include noncitizens, the Associated Press reported.
Ron Hayduk, professor of political science at the Borough of Manhattan Community College in New York, said Mr. Burger is making a fuss over nothing.
"Why would immigrants vote illegally when it puts them at risk?" Mr. Hayduk asked. "There is little evidence that immigrants actually do vote. It seems to me that the burden of proof is actually on those who claim illegal immigrants are voting."
The U.S. Constitution allows only American citizens the right to vote, and Rep. Tom Tancredo, Colorado Republican, says that fact gets lost in the application of the motor- voter law.
"If you allow noncitizens the right to vote, then we must ask, what does it mean to be an American citizen?" said Mr. Tancredo, an outspoken opponent of illegal immigration.
Jack Martin, special-projects director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, said about 20 states have identification loopholes that allow illegal aliens to vote.
"Right now, there are a lot of states that have gray-area loopholes, such as accepting individual taxpayer-identification numbers rather than Social Security numbers as a basis for issuing licenses," Mr. Martin said.
Individual taxpayer-identification numbers resemble Social Security numbers, except they begin with the number 9. They are distributed by the Internal Revenue Service solely for tax-collection purposes for people who are ineligible for a Social Security number.
Efforts to require confirmation of citizenship for voting in Maryland would be difficult, especially since six municipalities ? Chevy Chase, Takoma Park, Garret Park, Barnesville, Martin's Additions and Somerset ? allow noncitizens to vote in local elections.
What's more, Maryland Attorney General J. Joseph Curran Jr. in October told the state Motor Vehicle Administration that it must issue driver's licenses to immigrants even if they cannot "prove [their] lawful presence" in the United States.
The Maryland General Assembly this year rejected legislation that would have barred illegal aliens from obtaining driver's licenses.
Last year, California repealed a law that had allowed illegal aliens to get driver's licenses, joining Alabama, Colorado, Florida, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas.
Virginia enacted a similar law that took effect in January.
The issue of noncitizens getting onto voter rolls also has tainted jury pools, which are derived from voter rolls. In June, Circuit Court officials in Howard County, Md., had to decide if a guilty verdict in a murder case was valid after a noncitizen was discovered among the jurors. The verdict was deemed valid.
It was the first time in Maryland a verdict was jeopardized because a juror was not a citizen.
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IMO, there is no reason ANY illegal or non-citizen should be voting for even local elections...nor school board elections....nor in the Nation elections.....but they are.
And who's allowing this....the liberals fight for illegals to have driver's licenses....for illegals to have voting rights in our school systems....for illegals to have pretty much the same rights we American's do. It's just not right as it's a cancer that's growing.
But the liberals fight legally for these 'RIGHTS' they believe these illegals should have.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on May 15, 2005 09:04 PM ]
posted on May 15, 2005 09:05:19 PM new
Linda, the first and second links on your search are by none other than luminary editorialist Neal Boorts, the second, from Front Page "Magazine", speculates about what might happen if illegals voted, and so does the next link.
Moving on, we get more opinion, this time from Sean Hannity, another pillar of objective journalism, who tells us that "even some illegals vote", but doesn't back up his statement.
It gets worse from there. You may want to believe, in your heart of hearts, that illegals are voting, but you can't justify it with any numbers, only with editorial opinions from anti-immigration groups and pundits.Most illegals are anxious to keep a very low profile as far as the state goes. Why on earth would they want to vote? As they become more well organized, down the road a bit, maybe, but not now, no way.
How many illegals do you personally know any way? How many of them vote?
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on May 15, 2005 09:18:40 PM new
profe - You can deny it all you want. And reviewing only a couple of the links does not discredit all the other links that basically say the same thing.
By NOT requiring ALL to show proof of citizenship in order to vote...they ARE voting....the states are having problems with this issue....as my Maryland posts points out.
If you were willing to read other than those you have named....which I said...pick your OWN poison...then you would see the reality of illegals and non-citizens IS happening in the US.
But I understand you with your dual citizenship and fenix and her love for Mexico would be part of the group of Americans who don't see a problem with illegals having driver's licenses....which open up MANY door for them to gain the same rights as we citizens have legally.
Well...imo, and many other American's giving illegals and non-citizens IS harming our Nation and in more ways than one.
But YOU haven't been able to prove they're not voting illegally. And you haven't denied they are voting in many states in local elections either. In the pages and pages of links I've provided.....others can see the truth of what's happening in the different States.
They are getting on the voter registering rolls. Call Maryland and the other states voter registrar's offices and tell THEM they really aren't voting because you said so.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 15, 2005 09:37:59 PM new
***But many states do not verify citizenship when residents apply for licenses, which allows noncitizens to get on voting rolls***.
What states? PLease tell me because I went thru a two week ordeal to try to get a new ID. I had a certified birth certificate and my old ID but because it was expired they would not consider it. Since I was born here I had no naturalization papers, since I was never married or had a child or legally changed my name I had no state certified additional verification and since I was never in the military and I am not a member of an indian tribe I struck out still again. In fact it took a copy of my school transcripts, a high school year book and three phone calls, all the charm I could must, and a DMV manager that was willing to put her job on the line for me to get an ID. Just in case I ever lose it...could you tell me where these states that don't confirm anything are.
Also - What states don't require a government issued photo ID when you go to vote. I've voted as a resident of at least three states and in all of them I had to show ID when I went to the poll.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 15, 2005 10:28:26 PM new
fenix - It's too late for humor. And you didn't answer my question, in the other thread on open borders either.
If you want to know which are the 20 states...I'm sure Mr. Martin would be willing to help you out with YOUR question. OR you could choose to read some of the links I've already provided and you'll see other states mentioned. As I read through the links I've already provided....the registration process of different states are discussed....not all 50, mind you....but more than just Maryland.
As far as ID....most states that do require ID will usually take a drivers license as proof you are a citizen. Most likely why you had no problem in those THREE states.
But I believe, because you and I have already been down the road of illegals in CA being given driver's licenses, and our total disagreement on whether or not they should have them issued to them.....that then they can use those as an ID for many, many 'citizen only' benefits. And you supported illegals having this form of ID issued to them.
Do a search on driver's licenses in the states...and see for yourself how many are fighting them....for illegals....and why. But, seriously, I think you already know that.
nite
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 15, 2005 10:42:05 PM new One last post from me tonight....
here fenix...don't want to contact Mr. Martin....maybe contacting the NYT...you know the ol' gray lady that's working to become more ethical.
While THEY only mention 11 states....maybe THEY could help you out.
NATIONAL DESK | May 3, 2005, Tuesday
U.S. MAY REQUIRE CLOSER SCRUTINY TO GET A LICENSE
By MATTHEW L. WALD AND DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK (NYT) 1275 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 1 , Column 6
ABSTRACT - Congress moves quickly toward setting strict rules on how states issue driver's licenses, requiring them to verify whether applicants are in country legally in effort to deter terrorist attacks; requirement, which would apply to all 50 states and other jurisdictions that issue licenses, is in supplemental appropriations bill for Iraq; state officials complain that new requirement will add costly, complicated burden to issuance of driver's licenses; civil rights organizations and privacy advocates voice concern that standardized driver's license would amount to national identification card and that central database would be vulnerable to identity theft; proposed regulation would replace provision of intelligence bill passed in Dec that did not specifically require states to check citizenship or immigration status of applicants; 11 states now grant driver's licenses to noncitizens who do not have visas; photo (M)
Please Note: Archive articles do not include photos, charts or graphics. Our photos are available for purchase, please click here for more information.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 16, 2005 04:25:50 AM new
Hel*, legal citizens have a hard enough time being able to vote. The targeted areas in the last election? Predominately African American neighborhoods. Who was targeting these legal U.S. citizens? Hmmm, must have been the right. That's the way to do it. Scare off legal citizens. You get more votes that way.
You may as well give up, prof. In Linda's all seeing and all knowing eyes she's always right. She'll always find a link, credible or not, to prove that she is. She lives in a bubble and it's probably best not to burst it because we can't be sure what might happen if we do.
posted on May 16, 2005 04:37:49 AM new
Linda, I think basically this whole thing is paranoia and not much else. In all of your links, what it boils down to is this:
A very few municipalities nationwide allow non-citizens to vote in local elections.
Some states are issuing or thinking about issuing driver's licenses to illegal aliens.
You can register to vote when you get your driver's license. This was President Clinton's idea, so it must be somehow suspect.
THEREFORE:
Illegal aliens are voting in droves, (and, they're probably voting Democrat..gasp!!!)
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on May 16, 2005 04:41:41 AM new
Right Cheryl.What bothers me more than the question of whether illegals are voting, is the question of whether all the US citizens who should be able to vote actually are.
The last two paragraphs of Linda's Frontpage Magazine article sums it up quite well:
Peter Rubin, professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center, said many groups are "interested in suppressing the votes of minorities and using illegal tactics as a way of scaring people from coming out to the polls."
"That has happened in many elections," he said. "These tactics are real, continue to be used, and are underreported. It should be of concern to everyone, especially now, when everyone's vote matters."
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on May 16, 2005 04:46:36 AM new
Race-Based Targeting
Here are a few examples of recent incidents in which groups of voters have been singled out on the basis of race.
Most recently, controversy has erupted over the use in the Orlando area of armed, plainclothes officers from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) to question elderly black voters in their homes. The incidents were part of a state investigation of voting irregularities in the city's March 2003 mayoral election. Critics have charged that the tactics used by the FDLE have intimidated black voters, which could suppress their turnout in this year’s elections. Six members of Congress recently called on Attorney General John Ashcroft to investigate potential civil rights violations in the matter.
This year in Florida, the state ordered the implementation of a “potential felon” purge list to remove voters from the rolls, in a disturbing echo of the infamous 2000 purge, which removed thousands of eligible voters, primarily African-Americans, from the rolls. The state abandoned the plan after news media investigations revealed that the 2004 list also included thousands of people who were eligible to vote, and heavily targeted African-Americans while virtually ignoring Hispanic voters.
This summer, Michigan state Rep. John Pappageorge (R-Troy) was quoted in the Detroit Free Press as saying, “If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election.” African Americans comprise 83% of Detroit’s population.
In South Dakota’s June 2004 primary, Native American voters were prevented from voting after they were challenged to provide photo IDs, which they were not required to present under state or federal law.
In Kentucky in July 2004, Black Republican officials joined to ask their State GOP party chairman to renounce plans to place “vote challengers” in African-American precincts during the coming elections.
Earlier this year in Texas, a local district attorney claimed that students at a majority black college were not eligible to vote in the county where the school is located. It happened in Waller County – the same county where 26 years earlier, a federal court order was required to prevent discrimination against the students.
In 2003 in Philadelphia, voters in African American areas were systematically challenged by men carrying clipboards, driving a fleet of some 300 sedans with magnetic signs designed to look like law enforcement insignia.
In 2002 in Louisiana, flyers were distributed in African American communities telling voters they could go to the polls on Tuesday, December 10th – three days after a Senate runoff election was actually held.
In 1998 in South Carolina, a state representative mailed 3,000 brochures to African American neighborhoods, claiming that law enforcement agents would be “working” the election, and warning voters that “this election is not worth going to jail.
It happened here in the Cleveland area during the last presidential election. The African American neighborhoods were heavily targeted and a number of people eligible to vote either could not or were too afraid to. One was an elderly war vet who for reasons I cannot recall, was denied his right to vote. By the time they straightened that out, it was too late. It was like the Civil Rights Movement never happened.
posted on May 16, 2005 05:37:37 AM new
LOL profe - I see that even YOU have a great sense of humor.
You discount my sources...as being anti-immigration....which means they are and fight against illegal immigration.
But then you turn around and give as your source the People For The American Way? LOL A self-described leftist group.
There goal:
"We're fighting to maintain and expand 50 years of legal and social justice progress that right-wing leaders are trying to dismantle. We won't let them turn back the clock on our rights and freedoms."
Now that's funny.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 16, 2005 05:59:28 AM new
Seriously, Linda, at this point, it's important to point out the problem that you have evaluating your source of information. Whenever you type a couple of words into a google search the fact that you come up with pages of information does not necessarily lend any credibility to your claim. And you are left with your statement which you are either unwilling or unable to support with reliable data.
For example, someone once told you...I've just run a search on "republican" and "moron" which has turned up nearly 8,000 hits. ...Since you contend that doing a search and having a large number of hits on "welfare" and "fraud" proves that there is rampant welfare fraud...
Now, you have the same problem with "illegal immigrants" and "vote".
posted on May 16, 2005 06:02:31 AM new
Large number of voter registration forms rejected by county
Associated Press
May. 6, 2005 07:30 AM
TUCSON - Pima County election officials have been forced to reject an unprecedented number of voter registration forms because of failure to provide proof of citizenship.
Registrar of Voters Chris Roads said that over the last two weeks, the county has rejected 423 of the 712 registration forms it has received from prospective new voters - 59 percent of them.
"We rejected none during the same period last year," when six times as many people were registering because of the presidential election, Roads said.
why the difference????
"There was nothing in the law that required a rejection."
The citizenship requirements were contained in Proposition 200, the anti-illegal- immigration initiative passed by Arizona voters last November.
Since the proposition went into effect in January, new voters have been required to prove they are citizens with a passport, a birth certificate, naturalization papers, tribal documents or a driver's license issued after October 1996.
So...they weren't required to do so before 1-05
Voters who submit registration forms to change their name, address or party affiliation are exempt.
Roads said most voter registration forms rejected by the county since April 20, when officials started keeping track, were submitted by new voters who provided no valid proof of citizenship whatsoever.
Eleven people provided incomplete driver's license information.
New voter registration forms that include Proposition 200's citizenship requirements are awaiting approval from the U.S. Justice Department and are expected to be available in mid-June, according to Roads.
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1. [b]58,000+ Illegal Aliens Get Utah Driver's License[b]
A February 8, 2005, audit conducted by the Office of the Legislative Auditor General revealed what we have been warning citizens about for years:
"Utah has issued over 58,000 driver licenses to individuals who appear to be undocumented aliens. Personal identification cards were issued to another 37,000 individuals who also appear to be undocumented aliens...
Utah is used as a portal by undocumented aliens to obtain a driver's license."
How is this possible?
Illegal aliens — criminals — obtain matricula consular cards and use these as valid forms of identification to circumvent American immigration laws and fraudulently obtain drivers licenses.
According to the audit, Utah statute also permits them to use Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITIN) issued by the U.S. Internal Revenue "Service" (IRS) for those who do not qualify for a Social Security Number.
2. Hundreds of Criminals Register to Vote
In addition to pilfering driver's licenses, the legislative audit found that illegals are registering to vote, and are voting, in our elections.
Under the caption, "Voter Registration List Includes 383 Individuals with ITINs, Most Appear To Be Undocumented Aliens":
"Of those who appear to be undocumented aliens who were issued a driver license or personal identification card, 383 also registered to vote... We asked the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency to research the 383 to identify their immigration status. After examining a sample of 135 registered voters from our list, the agency reported that five were naturalized citizens who were eligible to vote. However, 20 were "deportable" and one was a legal permanent resident, none of whom are eligible to vote. The remaining 109 were described as having no record and '[b]likely to be illegal aliens' who would also be ineligible to vote[b].
According to state voter registration records, 14 of the 383 actually voted in an election, but we could not confirm whether or not those 14 were actually citizens."
The audit also found that "roughly 60,000 individuals are registered [to vote] in two or more voter precincts in the state."
It should be noted that this audit was by no means exhaustive. We will discuss the skewed audit findings in the next topic.
Note: The audit also made no mention of the fact that various licensing offices freely grant driver's licenses based upon the Mexican matricula consular card.
-------
Then on one of the links I've provided....it says how they can tell how illegals are voting....but comparing the cards they send back denying jury duty vs. their voting record.
But...I understand...the dems don't believe it. They encourage it....as these are one of their 'special interest groups'. And they'll defend illegals rights to gain driver's licenses...so they can then be used to VOTE illegally.
Yea....ALL in the US who see this HUGE problem are just paranoid
But the laws, they be a changin'....so MORE will HAVE to prove citizenship....no longer will they be able to just register to vote by filling out and signing those absentee ballots that only require the perso STATES they're a citizen. More and more states are following suit and required PROOF they're citizens. As it should be.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on May 16, 2005 06:17 AM ]
posted on May 16, 2005 06:55:18 AM new
Linda - I don't deny tat I supported Drivers Licenses for illegals in California. I also do not deny that I actually knew enough about the proposal to know that only the most illiterate of public servants would use them as ID for voter registration since they would have clearly noted that the holder was not a citizen.
Rather than knowing how many illegals are REGISTERED to vote (since anyone with a pen and two minutes of free times can and will be registered during election season by the guy on the street corner with a clipboard), how many of them actully DO vote. This is not a difficult number to determine yet I don't see those numbers quoted anywhere.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 16, 2005 07:05:54 AM new
fenix - since they would have clearly noted that the holder was not a citizen.
sorry...that hadn't been decided. Proposed by not decided upon.
And yea, those numbers are kind of like the profe's list of all the disinfranchized voters the dems would like the people to believe. Strickly accusation....no proof...no convictions for violating their rights....etc.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 16, 2005 07:11:02 AM newWhat states? PLease tell me because I went thru a two week ordeal to try to get a new ID. I had a certified birth certificate and my old ID but because it was expired they would not consider it
What I can tell you is that an illegal I know just obtained a drivers license in North Carolina. She lives and works in New York but cannot get a drivers license here because the ordeal to get one is similar to whats stated above. So she heard about someone in North Carolina who helps illegals gets drivers licenses and now she's got one. She doesn't drive and as far as I know, has no plans to ever drive, but she wants to be able to fly and cannot do it without a drivers license.
posted on May 16, 2005 07:20:52 AM new
And here's a list of just a few of the cases of documented illegals voting.....many AFTER the ol' clinton - motor-voter bill passed.
posted on May 16, 2005 07:27:40 AM newSo she heard about someone in North Carolina who helps illegals gets drivers licenses and now she's got one.
She's not alone either. On one of the links I provided it speaks to exactly this issue. THEY know where the 'rules' are more lax than others...and they'll go their because either no proof of citizenship is required...or they only have to sign a form saying they ARE citizens....whether they are or not.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 16, 2005 07:31:50 AM new
fenix - Yep...ol' Gray Davis wanted them too. That's another reason ol' Arnold won the re-call election. Normal CA's DIDN'T like it at all.
But hey...in a few more years, CA may be a part of Mexico anyway.....as I read that someone had placed a billboard that said, "Welcome to LA, Mexico". funny in a sad sort of way....but becoming more and more true as the year go by.
And I've read that Arnold supports that triple-layered fence between the CA border and Mexico to keep illegals out. Bet he gets a ton of support for that.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 16, 2005 08:18:43 AM new
I think we should all just agree that linduh's right. It'll blow her out of the water and the poor lonely thing can get off the computer for ten or fifteen minutes.
Besides she must be right....look at the number of posts she's had...last one to leave last night and first on here this morning....so pathetic....railing into the night to no one, "I'm right. I'm right !"
So let's give her a rest, she obviously has a very sick need to be right, every second of every day, and she is(in her own mind)...it'll give her something to brag about to all one of her friends and while she's gloating over a huge triumph over the millions of people who post here we can go on our merry way ....knowing the truth.
Besides it will be one of those random acts of kindness to give that scrambled brain a rest.
[ edited by crowfarm on May 16, 2005 08:22 AM ]
One last post from me tonight....