posted on May 27, 2005 01:05:38 AM new
By KELLEY SHANNON, Associated Press Writer
Thu May 26, 2:09 PM ET
AUSTIN, Texas - The treasurer of a political action committee formed by U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay broke the law by not reporting hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions, a judge ruled Thursday in a lawsuit brought by Democratic candidates.
State District Judge Joe Hart said the money, much of it corporate contributions, should have been reported to the Texas Ethics Commission.
The judge ordered Bill Ceverha, treasurer of Texans for a Republican Majority, to pay nearly $200,000 in damages. It will be divided among those who brought the lawsuit against Ceverha — five Democrats who lost state legislative races in 2002.
The civil case is separate from a criminal investigation being conducted by the district attorney in Austin into whether the PAC funneled illegal corporate contributions to GOP candidates for the state Legislature. Three of DeLay's top fund-raisers and eight corporations were indicted last year. Ceverha has not been charged.
DeLay has not been charged with any crime and was protected by congressional immunity from having to testify in the lawsuit, but he has been barraged on Capitol Hill with allegations of unethical conduct. DeLay spokesman Dan Allen did not immediately return a call for comment Thursday.
In the civil case, the Democrats claimed that Ceverha violated the state law designed to keep elections free from "the taint of corporate cash." They said corporate money donated to the PAC was spent on political research, polling, mailing, fund-raising and conferences.
Under Texas law, corporate money can be used by PACs for administrative purposes, but not for direct campaign expenses. In his ruling, the judge dealt with the election code reporting requirements, not with the how the money was spent.
Hart found that contributions of corporate and non-corporate money totaling $613,433 should have been reported by Ceverha, along with expenditures of $684,507.
Ceverha's lawyers argued in court that the PAC operated legally despite confusing state campaign funding laws.
The plaintiffs welcomed the judge's ruling as good first step in rooting out illegal corporate spending during the 2002 Texas elections. "It sheds light on the illegal acts of Texans for a Republican Majority," attorney Cris Feldman said.
Ceverha lawyer Terry Scarborough said the case will be appealed, and he suggested that the dispute is mostly about the Democrats' anger over losing the elections.
During the 2002 legislative elections, the Republicans won control of the Texas House for the first time since Reconstruction. The GOP later used its majority to redraw Texas' congressional districts and send more Republicans to Capitol Hill.
posted on May 27, 2005 09:49:55 AM new
Why not post ALL of the article. Don't see where anyone but Delay's treasurer is accused of wrongdoing.
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DeLay PAC's treasurer broke law, judge rules
Congressman's lawyer downplays decision; foes call for wider probe by House ethics panel
By R.G. RATCLIFFE and MICHAEL HEDGES
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle
AUSTIN - A judge ruled Thursday that the treasurer of a political committee founded by U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay violated state campaign-finance laws by not reporting more than $500,000 in corporate money used to influence Texas House elections.
Though state District Judge Joe Hart did not specifically rule on whether the money was raised and spent illegally, he declared it was all campaign money. Texas law bans the use of corporate or labor-union money to influence votes in state races.
Hart's ruling against Bill Ceverha immediately prompted calls from DeLay opponents — including former U.S. Rep. Chris Bell, D-Houston, and advocacy groups in Austin and Washington — for an expanded investigation into DeLay's activities by the U.S. House Ethics Committee.
But Bobby Burchfield, DeLay's attorney in Washington, dismissed the ruling as occurring in a civil lawsuit in which DeLay was not a party.
"The case really has nothing to do with Tom DeLay; he is not even mentioned in the decision," Burchfield said. "It is really kind of an inside campaign-finance decision on issues that had never been decided before."
The ruling came in a lawsuit brought by five losing Democratic candidates against the treasurer of a DeLay-founded political committee: Texans for a Republican Majority. They claimed TRMPAC illegally used corporate money to defeat them.
Hart's opinion, which defense attorneys said they will appeal, is the first judicial ruling that indicates TRMPAC's activities were illegal.
Key to GOP success
TRMPAC was crucial to a Republican effort to finance the takeover of the Texas House in the 2002 elections and the election of Rep. Tom Craddick, of Midland, as speaker. That was pivotal to DeLay's plan to push congressional redistricting through the Legislature in 2003 to give the GOP a majority in the state's U.S. House delegation.
Hart ruled in the lawsuit that TRMPAC raised $532,333 in corporate money to influence the legislative elections and was required to report the money to the Texas Ethics Commission.
TRMPAC did not report the corporate money or expenditures to the Texas Ethics Commission. However, the money was revealed in reports to the Internal Revenue Service filed under federal law.
Texas law prohibits corporate or labor union money from being used by political committees for anything other than administrative expenses.
"I find that the contributions were used in connection with a campaign for elective office. Therefore, they were political contributions or campaign contributions within the meaning of ... the Election Code," Hart ruled.
Hart said TRMPAC defined administrative expenses overly broadly in using corporate money. He said all of TRMPAC's expenditures fit the Texas legal definition of political spending.
Hart, a Democrat, is a visiting judge chosen to try the case by the Republican lawyers for TRMPAC and lawyers for the plaintiffs because of a history of judicial fairness. Hart awarded the five Democratic plaintiffs $196,000 plus attorneys fees.
Terry Scarborough, the attorney representing Ceverha, said he will ask Hart to allow him to appeal the case immediately. Ceverha's case is linked to other defendants in such a way that an appeal could be delayed for more than a year if Hart did not sever the case.
"We feel strongly this decision is wrong," Scarborough said. "Our client was exercising his constitutional rights of freedom of speech and freedom of association. These are the most fundamental constitutional rights that we, as citizens, enjoy and cherish."
Cris Feldman, one of the lawyers for the Democratic plaintiffs, said more information likely will come out about illegal campaign activities as lawsuits proceed against other TRMPAC defendants and the Texas Association of Business.
"This was an important first step in rooting out the abuse and corruption in the 2002 state elections," Feldman said.
Three of DeLay's political associates have been indicted by a Travis County grand jury on charges relating to how the money was raised or transferred to candidates. The three — former TRMPAC Executive Director John Colyandro, fund-raiser Warren RoBold and Jim Ellis, the executive director of DeLay's Americans for a Republican Majority — have all claimed they are innocent.
Colyandro and Ellis have asked the court to throw out their cases on grounds similar to the defense in the TRMPAC civil lawsuit. State District Judge Bob Perkins is scheduled to rule on their motions June 27.
Using the indictments as a basis for action, Bell as a member of Congress last year asked the Ethics Committee to investigate DeLay for helping raise illegal campaign cash in Texas. Bell had lost his seat as a result of DeLay's congressional redistricting plan.
Gerrymandering claims
The Ethics Committee deferred any action, saying it would follow the criminal cases to get a needed interpretation of Texas election laws.
Bell said Hart's ruling "serves as a good-faith basis for going forward with an investigation."
Texans for Public Justice in Austin and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington also called for new investigations into DeLay's role in the corporate fund-raising.
"The House Ethics Committee has run out of excuses for avoiding an investigation into Rep. DeLay's involvement with TRMPAC," said Melanie Sloan, executive director of CREW.
A spokesman for the House Ethics Committee did not return calls for comment.
Sloan said DeLay engaged in a "conspiracy to violate" Texas campaign laws "in order to gerrymander Texas congressional districts."
Craig McDonald, executive director of Texans for Public Justice, said Hart's ruling shows that further federal investigation of DeLay is needed.
"It's very bad news for Tom DeLay," McDonald said. "We think it shows the need for an independent counsel to investigate this matter and other matters involving DeLay in Washington."
Public Citizen called for DeLay to resign.
"It is clear that (DeLay) has abused the public trust and is unfit to lead. He should step down from his leadership post immediately," said Public Citizen President Joan Claybrook.
posted on May 27, 2005 09:53:06 AM new
Of course you don't..you're a rightie. The whole list of Tom DeLIE's violations would crash the entire Internet.
posted on May 27, 2005 10:06:04 AM new
Yep....dems really like to throw rocks.
Dems, Jackson to Pay $200,000 in Fines
By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer Thu May 26,11:56 AM ET
WASHINGTON -
The Democratic Party, the Rev. Jesse Jackson and two groups associated with the civil rights activist have agreed to pay a total of $200,000 in civil fines for campaign finance violations in the 2000 elections.
At issue in the
Federal Election Commission case was about $450,000 in election spending by Jackson, the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition and the Citizenship Education Fund using funds from the groups. The two non-profit groups were incorporated, making their money corporate and subject to restrictions under federal campaign finance laws.
According to the FEC, the money was used for a partisan get-out-the-vote effort and voter registration speaking tour that was coordinated with the
Democratic National Committee and included appearances by Jackson and Democratic House and Senate candidates.
Federal campaign finance law bans the use of corporate money for partisan, candidate-specific federal election activities.
Under an agreement with the FEC, Jackson and the two groups will share in a $100,000 civil penalty, and the DNC will also pay $100,000. The commission announced the outcome of the case Thursday.
The $450,000 in election spending was eventually reimbursed by the Democratic National Committee and various other Democratic entities.
------
Then, of course, we're viewing the front page news on the NYT and the Washington POST...everyday of the trial that's going on against illegal fundraising by hillary clintons fundraiser. yea...right [silence is golden - must be their motto]
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 27, 2005 10:10:47 AM new
So much for "shunning"
Ya, linduh , you're right but that does NOT negate the wrongs that the third highest ranking Republican has done.
Proving that there's wrong being done on both sides ..wow, what a surprise...you should've been an investigative reporter with your cutting edge insight.
posted on May 27, 2005 10:46:44 AM new
AUSTIN, Texas - The [b]treasurer of a political action committee.
DeLay has not been charged with any crime and was protected by congressional immunity from having to testify in the lawsuit, but he has been barraged on Capitol Hill with allegations of unethical conduct. DeLay spokesman Dan Allen did not immediately return a call for comment Thursday.
rer of a political action committee
Any more great news reports.........
_________________
posted on May 27, 2005 10:48:48 AM new
I think Hillary ranks pretty high in that party. Beware she might be your next candidate for President. One thing I do know she didn't serve in Vietnam, get 4 purple hearts.
_________________
posted on May 27, 2005 10:54:02 AM new
What I get from the posts so far is that Righties think ethics violations and breaking the law are OK because both parties do it.
What a sleazy attitude and one more reason the U.S. is going downhill.
posted on May 27, 2005 11:46:05 AM new
Hey Crow is this the kind of guy you want in office? If DeLay was a democrat, I being a Democrat would want this guys azz booted out of office for ever wouldn't you?
Being someone who wants a better America with a more honest goverment. I find it very hard to understand the mind set of Linda_K,Libra63 and Bear. I would think that anyone wanting a better America and more honest government would want to get rid of a guy like Tom DeLay no matter what party he belongs to.
Tom DeLay has already been found guilty of four congressional ethics violations
After being officially rebuked by the bi-partisan Ethics Committee, Tom Delay retaliated by replacing the Republican members of the committee who dared to stand up to him and he's now involved with a criminal investigation in Texas
Accepted trips from corporations and later helped kill legislation they opposed
Accepted trips from the lobbyist for a foreign government in violation of House rules
Paid family members more than $500,000 out of campaign contributions
Helped sweatshops in the Mariana Islands at the behest of a lobbyist
Tried to coerce a Congressman for a vote on Medicare
Allegedly used corporate money given to his PAC to finance Texas campaigns in violation of state law
Used Homeland Security resources in a dispute with Democrats in Texas
Diverted funds from a children's charity for lavish celebrations at the Republican convention
Stacked the House Ethics Committee with representatives who have contributed to his legal defense fund
Crippled the effectiveness of the House Ethics Committee by purging members who had rebuked him
Sought a rule change that would have no longer "required leaders to step aside temporarily if indicted"
posted on May 27, 2005 03:33:10 PM new
HEY LIBRA63,
Your group needs to get real. What kind of government do you guys what? I want a government for all the people not liars and crooks serving a minority of Americans.
ONCE AGAIN IF DELAY WAS A DEMOCRAT I WOULD WANT HIS AZZ KICKED OUT OF OFFICE NOW NOT TOMORROW. DELAY BRINGS SHAME TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
posted on May 27, 2005 03:54:00 PM new
Ya, Bigpeepa, it does sound like the righties LIKE all the crime and scandals ! They justify all violations by saying "well, the Democrats do it, too!"
One says, " With democrackers like you leading the way. ""
Did he forget that the "leaders" are Republicans...he doesn't know DeLIE is the Speaker of the House ?
posted on May 27, 2005 04:37:05 PM new
peepa - What I believe you don't get, among other things, is that NO republican here has said they approve of illegal behavior from anyone in their party.
What you are refusing to HEAR is we find it funny that you call us on our leaders, for political gain, but do nothing about your own leaders who do the same things.
Then you somehow twist that to be we're saying SINCE your guys did it then it's okay our do the same. I personally am NOT saying any such thing
I'm saying....clean your OWN house up before you talk about ours.
There's a HUGE difference there that YOU don't choose to see.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 27, 2005 05:29:19 PM new
HEY Crow, I heard a good Bush joke to-day. The joke is.
"Bush is worse that a broken clock. Even a broken clock is right two times a day".
HEY LINDA_K, THE QUEEN OF BULL ROAR. SAID "I'm saying....clean your OWN house up before you talk about ours." Looks like Linda_K doesn't like what is happening to a few of her sides failed leaders.
UNLIKE YOU LINDA_K, I AM SAYING CLEAN OUT ALL THE LIARS AND CROOKS REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT FOR A BETTER AMERICA. UNLIKE YOU I HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT SAME THING FOR SOME TIME NOW.
Linda_K you are the QUEEN of twisted words and false posts not me. Your post to me just shows me again that people like you would love to tell the rest of us what to say,read or listen to. Sorry old girl this guy is not buying into your twisted DICTATORIAL ways.
posted on May 27, 2005 05:42:18 PM new
Bee-pee-pa, read it and weep about some failed rather corrupted Democrap leaders of yours:
U.S. Indicts 4 Tennessee Lawmakers in Corruption Case
By JOHN BRANSTON
Published: May 27, 2005
MEMPHIS, May 26 - Four members of the Tennessee legislature, including a member of the Ford family dynasty in Memphis, were indicted on Thursday after a two-year undercover operation by the F.B.I. whose outcome has rattled the state's political establishment.
Among those indicted was State Senator John N. Ford, one of the most powerful politicians in Memphis, who was charged with extorting $55,000 from a bogus company created by the bureau. He was also indicted on three counts of threatening to shoot or kill anyone he suspected was an F.B.I. agent or was trying to set him up.
Mr. Ford was arrested in Nashville, was transported to Memphis and remained in federal custody pending a detention hearing Friday. His arrest came a day after a nephew, Representative Harold E. Ford Jr., Democrat of Tennessee, filed paperwork to run for the seat being vacated next year by Bill Frist, the majority leader of the United States Senate.
John Ford's brother Harold Ford Sr. is a former congressman who was acquitted of federal corruption charges in 1993 in the same Memphis courtroom where the handcuffed defendant made his initial court appearance Thursday afternoon. Two other brothers serve on the Memphis City Council and Shelby County Commission.
The indictments, announced by United States Attorney Terrell L. Harris, named three other state lawmakers and a former state legislator who is now an aide to the mayor of Shelby County, which encompasses Memphis.
"Government is not for sale," Mr. Harris said at a news conference here, adding that the investigation, code-named Tennessee Waltz, was continuing.
Mark Gwyn, director of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, said, "We hope this will bring some public trust back to the citizens of the state of Tennessee."
Indicted along with Mr. Ford were former State Senator Roscoe Dixon of Memphis, a Democrat who is now a top aide to the Shelby County mayor, A C Wharton; State Senator Kathryn I. Bowers, Democrat of Memphis, a former state representative who was sworn in one week ago to succeed Mr. Dixon; State Senator Ward Crutchfield, Democrat of Chattanooga; and State Representative J. Chris Newton, Republican of Cleveland. Also indicted were Barry Myers of Memphis and Charles Love of Chattanooga, each of whom was described by the government as a "bagman."
Mr. Dixon, Ms. Bowers, Mr. Crutchfield, Mr. Newton and Mr. Ford are all charged with taking money from the bogus company, E-Cycle Management, to introduce and pass legislation that would enable it to operate profitably in Tennessee.
According to the indictments, the F.B.I. set up E-Cycle in 2003 and portrayed it as a business that obtained and disposed of outdated electronic equipment by sending it outside the United States for salvage. Its headquarters were said to be in Atlanta.
At the news conference, neither Mr. Harris nor other government officials would comment on how E-Cycle had solicited business.
The sight of the usually dapper John Ford walking into a federal courtroom in Memphis without a necktie and in handcuffs was only the latest turn in a long, colorful career.
Senator Ford was once acquitted of firing a gun at a truck driver through the sunroof of his car. Earlier this year he testified to now dividing his time between two families in two homes in Memphis - one with his current girlfriend and mother of two of his children, the other with his former wife and mother of three of them. And earlier this month, he was fined $10,000 for spending $15,000 in campaign money on his daughter's wedding reception in 2003.
Mr. Ford is also under federal investigation in another case, for payments totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars that he received from OmniCare Health Plan, a managed care organization.
The indictments were a blow to Democrats in Memphis, their last stronghold in the state, and came at an awkward time for Harold Ford Jr., who was keynote speaker at the Democratic National Convention in 2000 and is considered one of the bright young faces in the party.
Asked Thursday night about the charges, the congressman, attending a graduation ceremony for a Memphis church's day school, tried to put some distance between himself and his uncle.
"I think people know the difference between the two of us," he said, adding, "It's a sad day as a Tennessean, as a nephew of someone who has found himself accused of some pretty awful things."
In Nashville, the state capital, workers crowded around television sets on Thursday as news of the indictments broke.
"Today is a sad day on many levels," said the first-term Democratic governor, Phil Bredesen, according to The Associated Press. "I think all of us feel that the important thing to do is keep a steady hand."
posted on May 27, 2005 05:53:33 PM new
But Linda - Jesse Jackson is not big force in the Democratic Party. He definately is not a leader. He's just a guy who keeps insisting on running for office. Anyone can do that, all they need is a little more time and desire. All you have to do is look at his numbers to know that democrats have never adopted this man as a leader in their party. Also, just to give you a view from the otherside. there is only one thing that is ever accomplished by playing the "Clinton Card" in an arguement. It has a ring of desperation and weakens whatever point you are trying to make. He's gone. It's over. He's been out of office for 5 years now and the only group that does not seem to have grasped that yet is the Republicans.
If it helps to put it into perspective... trying to justify the negative actions of any current standing republican by comparing him to Clinton will only result in the same eye rolling brush off that would come from a republican supporter when confronted with a similar comparison to Nixon.
Nixon lied, used influence and resources to twist an election, endorsed arson, attempted to cover-up and protect admitted felons, and had the FBI burn incriminating documents. Using the comparitive scale of acceptibility that is often employed here, does this suddenly make Clinton more favorable in your eyes?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 27, 2005 06:00:20 PM newtheir last stronghold in the state,
glad to hear that
and came at an awkward time for Harold Ford Jr.,
I really like this kid. Don't expect to ever be voting for him as I'll never go 'left' again, but each and everything I've seen him interviewed he comes across to me as a dem who still is proud of what he's accomplished, idealist enought to still home HE can make a difference, a strong sense of 'self' and is a CALMmmmm democrat who can discuss the issues without going balastic...like a lot of their party leaders do these days. I admire that young man, a lot, and believe he has a bright future. We need to bring him over to the 'right' side of the aisle.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 27, 2005 06:20:13 PM newJesse Jackson is not big force in the Democratic Party.
Are you trying to say that there was NO connection between HIS activities and the DNC? I certainly hope not. BUT if you are, then please explain what reason you believe the DNC is going to be paying 1/2 of this amount...$100,000.
just to give you a view from the otherside. there is only one thing that is ever accomplished by playing the "Clinton Card" in an arguement. It has a ring of desperation and weakens whatever point you are trying to make. He's gone. It's over. He's been out of office for 5 years now and the only group that does not seem to have grasped that yet is the Republicans.
Well....I ALWAYS appreciate a 'view from the other side' but I still disagree. And while I don't believe, without looking, I even brought clinton into this thread.
But that being said....it sure is relivant to most everything the dems complain about here. One reason being that HADE clinton not so disgraced your party, lied under oath..etc. a republican like Bush most likely WOULDN'T have been elected. IF the people were satisfied with the clinton administration they would have elected gore. gore should have won by a LANDSLIDE...being from the current administration. Even gore distanced himself from clinton...as to not be seen and approving his actions.
Also when making comparisons about clinton vs this admin. no one is blind, accept some dems here, to the fact that the clinton administration ALSO said and supported many of the same positions the Bush administration has. One being iraq had womd. So when I bring him up....it's to compare their similaries...so you lefties can see they DID hold some of the same positions. Whether you want to or not.
And for the lefties who keep harping on Tom DeLay....IF and WHEN it's proven he's actually done anything illegal...he will face charges.
But my point is not to support any negative behavior....but I will call the dems out when they only see it on our side...when it's also on there's and especially when they won't acknowledge it. To me that's like a thief calling another thief a thief. laughable
nixon and...Using the comparitive scale of acceptibility that is often employed here, does this suddenly make Clinton more favorable in your eyes?
One of your better questions, if I say so myself fenix .
No it doesn't make clinton more favorable...neither one have my respect. And that's exactly what I've been trying to say/point out. But what I'm seeing is the left ONLY saying what delay has done is wrong...they won't look to the SAME EXACT actions their party members are doing. ie: Pelosi and other dems who ALSO were accepting these gifts, vacations, etc.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 27, 2005 06:28:35 PM new
And just so we don't have another time warp issue.
I'm not comparing say clinton's administration where there were like 17-20 indictments...to what DeLay's being accused of, this last time. I'm comparing the exact same actions of the dems, currently in our Congress, who were quickly editing their own travel/gift reports AFTER they were accused of doing what they're accusing DeLay of doing.
And on top of THAT not only were appro. 7 dems chaning there's...it was reported that somewhere/approx. another 15-20 dems hadn't even filed the required reporting forms for the same thing.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 27, 2005 06:36:13 PM new
Dbl - On your Ford and dem issue. Yes, these extremely rich families all seem to have their ....how do I say nicely...uniqueness'.
I know I used to really respect Hemmingway and Hurst a lot, until I did some reading on their lives. Changed my mind...they were nothing like what I'd heard about them in the press...tv programs,etc.
And another observation I've made is that the son's or grandson's of these 'icons' aren't anything like their fathers or grandfathers were. Like when john kennedy was being discussed...I SURE don't see him in the same way I respected his father. And that also applies to Ronald Reagan's son, oh what's his name...the radical leftie one. Where as I do see Michael Reagan as much like his father. Another would be ...well...it appears I'm having a senior moment or two and the last comparison I wanted to make isn't there right now. But I think you may get my idea....that the Ford sons or grandsons don't necessaryly THINK like their forefathers did.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 27, 2005 06:42:42 PM new
Yes, Linda. Very true.
I saw an interesting documentary (of course, cant remember the name of it right now) but it explored the very rich, their kids, and their lives. K think donald trump's kids were interviewed as well as some others. I was really beat and fell asleep while watching it though, and didnt get to see the whole thing. I was hoping I'd catch the rerun sometime. But anwyay, its obviously way different when you are born into it, or inherit it, rather than build it and they also went into that with some of the fathers and grandfathers, etc.
posted on May 27, 2005 07:18:18 PM new
Hey dblfugger9, for someone that likes to consider herself well educated this time you sure don't act it. You are acting more like Linda_K by not reading what I said or trying to twist my words.
I said this statement just tonight. Now I guess I can add your name along with Lind_Ks UNLIKE YOU LINDA_K, I AM SAYING CLEAN OUT ALL THE LIARS AND CROOKS REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT FOR A BETTER AMERICA. UNLIKE YOU I HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT SAME THING FOR SOME TIME NOW.
dblfugger9 said this to me, "Bee-pee-pa, read it and weep about some failed rather corrupted Democrap leaders of yours:"
"U.S. Indicts 4 Tennessee Lawmakers in Corruption Case"
HEY dblfugger9, I say a crook is a crook strip them of power and throw their azzes in jail. I don't care what party they belong to. I want to see a better government for the majority of Americans. Not a government that wants to mix religion with government and cater to a minority of wackos. The same wackos that seem to condone crooks as long as they are the crooks that represent the radical wackos.
I enjoyed watching Bill Frist get beat up this weeks by members of both parties. We can all say that's one for the level headed American.
posted on May 27, 2005 07:48:01 PM new
::Are you trying to say that there was NO connection between HIS activities and the DNC?::
No, not at all what I was saying. My point was simply that Comparing DeLay to Jackson is apples and oranges in terms of party positions.
::it sure is relivant to most everything the dems complain about here. One reason being that HADE clinton not so disgraced your party, lied under oath..etc. a republican like Bush most likely WOULDN'T have been elected.::
I'm going to disagree with you there. I think that people simply did not like Gore. He had no personality and nothing that drew people in. He had the proverbial stick up his butt plus he had the bad judgement to try to distance himself form Clinton. To this day Clinton is still a very popular figure. He is charming and enigmatic and people are drawn to him. Gore was so politically paramoid that he locked his strongest card in a closet and didn't let it out. Elections are decided by moderates and undecided andpersonality has a big play in their decision and Gore not only did not have any, he never surrounded himself with the people that could have given him personality by association. I not only do not think that Gore lost the election because of Clintons actions, I think the absense of Clinton on the campaign is what cost him the election.
::And for the lefties who keep harping on Tom DeLay....IF and WHEN it's proven he's actually done anything illegal...he will face charges.::
You know what DeLays problem is... with the constant long lived attacks on Clinton and his ethics by the republicans, they put themselves in a position that was bound to boomerang. You cannot consistantly attack a party leader and by association the party itself on a lack morals and ethics and then when confronted with similar allegations with your own leaders have any hope of being able to deflect the controversy. DeLay is a bit hinky, or he may be completely honest but he has certainly behaved in a very hinky manner. He has made very deliberate efforts to stack cards in his favor while at the same time throwing stones at everyone else. He has perched himself on the ladder of righteousness and dared anyone to push him off. Of course people are going to go after him.
::But what I'm seeing is the left ONLY saying what delay has done is wrong...they won't look to the SAME EXACT actions their party members are doing. ie: Pelosi and other dems who ALSO were accepting these gifts, vacations, etc.::
The problem is that DeLay created the atmosphere that has fed this. If he had left the ethics commitee alone, if he had stepped down temporarily, it would have largely difused the situation. Instead he did everything he could to manipulate the process in his favor while at the same time pointing fingers. DeLay made this bed, either thru his illegal actions at the time or illogical actions in the aftermath.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on May 27, 2005 08:59 PM ]
[silence is golden - must be their motto] 
