The Godless Constitution

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Libra63	posted on May 28, 2005 02:31:06 PM The Godless Constitution The word "God" does not appear within the text of the Constitution of the United States. After spending three-and-a-half months debating and negotiating about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a constitution that is secular. The U.S. Constitution is often confused with the Declaration of Independence, and it's important to understand the difference. The Declaration of Independence is seen as that document that established the new nation of the United States. It was written by Thomas Jefferson in 1778, nine years before the U.S. Constitution was written. It was signed by the Continental Congress and sent to King George III of England. It is a very eloquent document that is celebrated every July 4, but it is not the law of the land. It is a statement of sentiments directed to King George III in reaction to unfair taxation. The Declaration of Independence refers to "the Creator:" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document; it is not the U.S. Constitution. Foes of the principle of separation of church and state often refer to the word "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence as proof that the framers of the U.S. Constitution intended for the United States to be ruled by a soveriegn being. Nothing could be further from the truth. The United States Constitution was written and ratified by elected officials representing a coalition of Enlightenment rationalists and evangelical Christians who were deeply concerned about entanglements between religion and government From Legacy Of Freedom by Rob Boston, Church and State, January, 2003. "Jefferson, Madison And The Nation's Founders Left Us Church-State Separation. Can We Keep It?" What the Religious Right doesn't tell people, and what, tragically, many Americans apparently don't know, is that when it comes to determining what the laws of the United States mean, the only document that matters is the Constitution. The Constitution, a completely secular document, contains no references to God, Jesus or Christianity. It says absolutely nothing about the United States being officially Christian. The Religious Right's constant appeals to documents like the Declaration of Independence, which contains a deistic reference to "the Creator," cloud the issue and make some people believe their rights spring from these other documents. http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm _________________
dblfugger9	posted on May 28, 2005 02:32:21 PM The U.S. Constitution is often confused with the Declaration of Independence, and it's important to understand the difference... Thank you, Libra. Good post!
fenix03	posted on May 28, 2005 02:56:57 PM Interesting post considering your ongoing theme of derision towards those that attempt to enforce the concepts Libra. Does this mean that you have begun to see the light? ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
Linda_K	posted on May 28, 2005 03:02:45 PM I personally took it as proof that most of what the 'left' here says....isn't stated anywhere in our Const. Like no where does it say people can't pray, meet, display their religious artifacts anywhere they wish. etc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
crowfarm	posted on May 28, 2005 03:10:58 PM Fascist sign No. 8: 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
crowfarm	posted on May 28, 2005 03:23:31 PM People who have to "display" their religion are godless phonies! A truly good person doesn't have to keep waving a flag about it !
Libra63	posted on May 28, 2005 03:30:12 PM I have always seen the light. I do not believe in abortion. I do not believe in using embros for stem cell. I do believe in God. I believe that I should be able to express my opinion about religion without obstruction. I have rights as everyone else does but it seems like they are trashed everytime I say something. When it is done to me I will do it back. Get it. _________________
replaymedia	posted on May 28, 2005 03:52:10 PM I think far too many people do not realize the situation with the Declaration of Independence versus the Constitution as stated above. Yes, the Constitution is secular. Why is that wrong? The real confusion lies in the whole "wall of seperation of church and state" argument. The founders came up with the concept specifically to keep the government out of the church not the other way around. This was in response to the King of England being the head of the Anglican church, a situation which had caused unending problems in England (which is still not fixed today, just ask any Irish Catholic about the English Protestants). Seperation of church and state was not meant to ban Christmas trees from government buildings, it was instituted to keep the government from setting up the President as leader of the church or some such thing. Ask the Japanese- Emperor worship is a major part of the Shinto religion. Also Tax-exempt status for religious institutions was not set up as support or for or a gift to the church, but was created to protect the church from government control and influence. Only in recent years have these two concepts been twisted in meaning. But then the Constition has become so twisted in recent years that it's hard to even discuss the law anymore without derision. The country is falling apart. The Constition is being destroyed and twisted. Are the two unrelated? Obviously not. -------------------------------------- Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
CBlev65252	posted on May 28, 2005 03:59:43 PM No, separation of church and state is not in the Constitution, but rather it was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. "I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." This nation is not made up of just Christians. There are Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists. By allowing one group to control any government agency would be denying the others their right to religious freedom. What if it were fundamentalist Christians riding roughshod over the government? And, what if those Christians didn't believe people should be Muslims, or Jewish or Buddhists in this country, that the only correct beliefs were there own? What would that do to religious freedom? What if the Mormons were steering this country's direction? Since they don't believe Muslims or Jews believe in God, what would happen to their religious freedom? Or the Jevhova's Witnesses who don't believe in celebrating Christmas or Easter, two national holidays? A blending of church and state will only allow for religious freedom if only one religion is practiced in this country. Cheryl
crowfarm	posted on May 28, 2005 04:10:40 PM """Only in recent years have these two concepts been twisted in meaning. But then the Constition has become so twisted in recent years that it's hard to even discuss the law anymore without derision. """ See the Fascist sign No. 8
crowfarm	posted on May 28, 2005 04:15:32 PM Libra63 posted on May 28, 2005 03:30:12 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have always seen the light. I do not believe in abortion. I do not believe in using embros for stem cell. I do believe in God. I believe that I should be able to express my opinion about religion without obstruction. I have rights as everyone else does but it seems like they are trashed everytime I say something. """"When it is done to me I will do it back. Get it.""" Very christian thing to say.... _________________
fenix03	posted on May 28, 2005 04:25:24 PM ::I have rights as everyone else does but it seems like they are trashed everytime I say something. When it is done to me I will do it back. Get it.:: No Libra, I don't "Get It". Is there some reason you are taking on this rather hostile attitude? Are you inferring that anytime someone disagrees with you that they are "trashing" you. ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
Libra63	posted on May 28, 2005 04:32:42 PM No you stated I might be beginning to see the light, I knew what you meant by that statement so I came back and answered you truthfully and then you come back with that stupid statement. That truly gave me a chuckle. _________________
fenix03	posted on May 28, 2005 05:07:22 PM Well, aren't we just charming today. ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
Linda_K	posted on May 28, 2005 06:40:59 PM cheryl says: No, separation of church and state is not in the Constitution, but rather it was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802. Yes, but it is JUST one letter...ONE...and was NEVER included in our Constitution when it was written. Therefore, it has no value in regards to our Constitution. PERIOD. It is only a historical letter, stating his ONE opinion. This nation is not made up of just Christians. LOL...I think everyone here knows that already. I've never read anyone here saying it was. But was has been said is that when this Nation was founded, it was founded on judeo/christian VALUES. Doesn't mean ALL fell into that catagory then either. By allowing one group to control any government agency would be denying the others their right to religious freedom. Which ONE group do you preceive has "CONTROL" over ANY government agency? They don't. And where have you heard or read that other religions are having their religious freedoms denied? They aren't. So...there we have TWO statements you've made that are incorrect. [i]A blending of church and state will only allow for religious freedom if only one religion is practiced in this country[i]. This 'blending' you mention has exsisted since day one. This is not something new. The atheists, agnostics, godless, etc like the ACLU have worded to REMOVE our freedom of religion by denying OUR right to practice our religious. THEY have put all these limits on where and when we can do what. They've got their noses in our Churches telling believers what can and can't be said in our OWN Churches. Try that in a Mosque. All religions should be able to freely practice their own religions in whatever ways they wish. THAT is to following the law of our Constitution. Limiting and trying to remove any mention of religion from the public arena is AGAINST our Constitution....AS WRITTEN. ----------------- And I fully agree with the above statement made by replaymedia. THAT was the intent...to keep the government from forcing a religion down your throats...NOT to keep limiting the practice of religion any where. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
Linda_K	posted on May 28, 2005 07:05:10 PM Maybe, just MAYBE some here will be able to see this DIDN'T start when then President was elected nor when he was re-elected. Even IF they believe otherwise. Separation of God and state? Posted: October 11, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern By William J. Federer © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com America's founders did not intend for there to be a separation of God and state, as shown by the fact that all 50 states acknowledged God in their state constitutions: Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama ... invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution ... Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ... Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ... Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government ... California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe ... Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ... Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences ... Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty ... establish this Constitution ... Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution ... Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance ... establish this Constitution ... Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ... Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors ... Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of government ... Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings ... establish this Constitution ... Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges ... establish this Constitution ... Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties ... Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy ... Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine ... acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction ... Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty ... Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe... in the course of His Providence, an opportunity ... and devoutly imploring His direction ... Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution ... Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings ... Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work ... Missouri 1945, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness ... establish this Constitution ... Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ... establish this Constitution ... Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution ... Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution ... New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience ... New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors … New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ... New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings ... North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for ... our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those ... North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain... Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common ... Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this ... Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences ... Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance ... Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island ... grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing ... South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of the State of South Carolina ... grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution ... South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution ... Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience ... Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God ... Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we ... establish this Constitution ... Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ... Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other ... Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ... West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia ... [b]reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God[b] ... Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility ... Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution ... After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe, just maybe, the ACLU and the out-of-control federal courts are wrong. --- William Federer is a best-selling author and president of Amerisearch Inc., a publishing company dedicated to researching America's noble heritage. Federer's "American Minute" is featured each day in WorldNetDaily. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
profe51	posted on May 28, 2005 07:27:13 PM Now the profe speaks out. What the Religious Right doesn't tell people, and what, tragically, many Amer icans apparently don't know, is that when it comes to determining what the laws of the United States mean, the only document that matters is the Consti tution. The Constitution, a completely secular document, contains no references to God, Jesus or Christianity. Great link Libra. Thank you! ____________________________________________ Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..." [ edited by profe51 on May 28, 2005 07:28 PM ]
crowfarm	posted on May 28, 2005 07:43:18 PM I've asked before and, of course, never got an answer .... Which religion do you think should rule America?
replaymedia	posted on May 28, 2005 08:03:36 PM "Which religion do you think should rule America?" Why do you think a religion should rule America? Has ANYONE here, or elsewhere claimed that this would be a good thing? No one I know. Relgions of any kind will ingrain moral values into the believer and give a consistent code to live by. It's far more reliable than simply going by the polls. Our leaders should have some religious values, but that doesn't mean the religions are running the Country. "Religion is a good thing. Everyone should have one." Dwight D. Eisenhower -------------------------------------- Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
crowfarm	posted on May 28, 2005 08:09:34 PM Replay, I asked a question. I NEVER said a religion should rule America.
Linda_K	posted on May 28, 2005 08:43:16 PM Anyone who doesn't believe that the ACLU and other godless people are continuing to take away religious freedom and remove the mention of GOD from everything possible...is a school in Cupertino, CA....which just last month decided a teach COULDN'T use/present THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS in class, BECAUSE it mentioned God. That's how far these nut cases have gone at removing God from our society. Now the US Bill of Right is what they're fighting against. Then...in addition anyone can do a google search and read all the religious quotes all our American President's have made. There are hundreds/thousands/maybe more Type in quotes from US President's on God...you supporters of blocking our freedom to practice our religion will learn this didn't start with this President...it's always been this way. --- "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man." Abraham Lincoln "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." George Washington "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people...so great is my veneration of the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read, the more confident will be my hope that they will prove useful citizens in their country and respectful members of society." John Adams "A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know the price of rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved." [b]Benjamin Franklin [/b] "That Book (the Bible) is the rock on which our Republic rests." Andrew Jackson HEY CHERYL "The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty...students' perusal of the sacred volume will make us better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands." Thomas Jefferson "The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed." Patrick Henry "My advice to Sunday Schools no matter what their denomination is: Hold fast to the Bible as the sheet anchor of your liberties; write its precepts in your heart, and practice them in your lives. To the influence of this Book we are indebted for the progress made in true civilization and to this we must look as our guide in the future. 'Righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people (Proverbs 14:34)'." Ulysses S. Grant --- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
crowfarm	posted on May 28, 2005 08:59:56 PM Well, old Jefferson was dreaming....there are people who believe in god and the bible and they drive drunk, murder, embezel, rape children, start wars, beat their wives, beat their children, cheat on their taxes, rob, commit arson, commit adultery, slander, do illegal drugs, TORTURE, hate anyone who isn't just like themselves, demean and laugh at the less fortunate, are selfish, think only of themselves.......so the idea that you're a good person because you SAY you believe in god and the bible just doesn't cut it. I haven't heard of anyone trying to stifle religion in this country...sure there are a few nut cases ON BOTH SIDES but they represent the extremes. Why don't these religious types spread the word through kindness, acts of charity, love thy neighbor, and that sort of thing instead of trying to shove their religion down other's throats. Keep your religion to yourself...you have your home and your tax free churches.....keep your hands (and ridiculus symbols) off public property....it belongs to everyone and should respect the feelings of everyone. If you have to advertise how religious you are...you aren't. [ edited by crowfarm on May 29, 2005 04:35 AM ]
Linda_K	posted on May 28, 2005 09:19:21 PM I would hope that at least we could all agree here that Thomas Jefferson wrote 20,000 letters or more in his lifetime. The one regarding how he saw the separation of church and state... was but ONE. He also has been quoted as saying 'All men are created equal'. And yet he owned slaves. I believe this letter of his, when taken in context to what issue he WAS addressing is clearly seen. It was a complain about government intruding on religious freedom. An explanation is here: http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html The Danbury Baptists were a religious minority in Connecticut, and they complained that in their state, the religious liberties they enjoyed were not seen as immutable rights, but as privileges granted by the legislature-as "favors granted." [ edited by Linda_K on May 28, 2005 09:37 PM ]
profe51	posted on May 29, 2005 04:57:30 AM Anyone who doesn't believe that the ACLU and other godless people are continuing to take away religious freedom and remove the mention of GOD from everything possible...is a school in Cupertino, CA....which just last month decided a teach COULDN'T use/present THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS in class, BECAUSE it mentioned God. Once again, Linda, it looks like you're taking a little snippet of news and warping it to fit your view. That case happened, not two months ago, but in November of 2004. It had nothing to do with the ACLU or THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS. The Bill of Rights is a portion of the Constitution, which does not mention God or a Creator. The teacher filed suit against his school district, alleging he had been discriminated against because he couldn't use and distribute copies of historical writings, including the Declaration of Independence and some writings of William Penn and others. The man wasn't teaching standard 5th grade history, he was using his position to evangelize to kids. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/08/MNGPBA8DPL1.DTL ____________________________________________ Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
dblfugger9	posted on May 29, 2005 05:14:03 AM Profes, you often have posted you are a man of deep religious conviction (if that isnt a mockery, as i understand it) - so just curious - has your conscience ever goaded you to wish to do such a thing? Slide something in that maybe you know you shouldnt? In a class, a lesson - whatever? . [ edited by dblfugger9 on May 29, 2005 05:14 AM ]
crowfarm	posted on May 29, 2005 05:17:34 AM The quotes linduh used come from great men....men who lived in an era when they seldom met or knew anyone who wasn't christian. And it's just stupid to insinuate that all atheists are evil and all christians are good when the evidence to the contrary is verrrry obvious. Even I admit....all christians are not "linduh". There are plenty of christians who are are good decent people (who don't have to keep yelling about how good they are).
CBlev65252	posted on May 29, 2005 06:17:05 AM "The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty...students' perusal of the sacred volume will make us better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands." Thomas Jefferson HEY LINDA not everyone has the Bible attached to their religion. Heck, the Mormon's certainly don't. If you've read theirs, it does not resemble the Christian Bible. The Qur'an (Koran) is a bible, but it's not the same as the Christian one. The Buddhists and the Jews all have different books. So, what you're saying is that Atheists, Jews, Mormons, Buddhists, Muslims and the like are not good citizens, good fathers or good husbands? And, in order to become good citizens, fathers and husbands, they should change to Christianity? When this country was young, Christianity was the dominant, almost sole, religion practiced in this country, so Jefferson's comments made sense. They don't today. And what of the phrase "God-fearing"? That phrase is a Christian phrase. I don't know about anyone else, but I choose not to fear God. "We fear dictators and despots. We fear rattlesnakes. We fear scorpions. All for pretty much the same reason. Personally, I've found that I can't love something or someone I fear... ...including the singular, all pervading force that most would call God." Cheryl
dblfugger9	posted on May 29, 2005 06:25:28 AM Cheryl, just to let you know, God-fearing is not necessarily interpreted to mean "fear" as we know it. But thats a long theological discussion I'm not about to get into today.
Helenjw	posted on May 29, 2005 06:26:30 AM Great post, Cheryl!!!
replaymedia	posted on May 29, 2005 06:38:48 AM CBlev... You're partially right, partially wrong. Group = Holy Book(s) Jews = Torah, a.k.a. Old Testament Christians = Old and New Testaments Islam= Koran PLUS Old and New Testaments. The Koran is a continuation of the other two. They believe all three Mormons = Old and New Testaments PLUS Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon supercedes the Bible where contradictory, but otherwise regular Bible is OK. Buddhists = No special holy book. So yes, the Bible is actually the foundation for all of these except Buddhism. Obviously each one translates it differently, but they'll all involved. Religions that DO NOT use the Bible: Buddhism as aleady mentioned. Hinduism Taoism Zoroastrianism African Tribal Religions and so forth. Basically the entire Western Civilization is Built upon Biblical foundations. And just an extra, the definition of god-fearing - devoutly religious; "a god-fearing and law-abiding people" Nothing to do with "FEAR" at all. -------------------------------------- Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.

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