posted on June 6, 2005 08:41:56 AM new
Poll: Religious Devotion High in U.S. By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer
Mon Jun 6, 7:33 AM ET
Religious devotion sets the United States apart from some of its closest allies. Americans profess unquestioning belief in God and are far more willing to mix faith and politics than people in other countries, AP-Ipsos polling found.
In Western Europe, where Pope Benedict XVI complains that growing secularism has left churches unfilled on Sundays, people are the least devout among the 10 countries surveyed for The Associated Press by Ipsos.
Only Mexicans come close to Americans in embracing faith, the poll found. But unlike Americans, Mexicans strongly object to clergy lobbying lawmakers, in line with the nation's historical opposition to church influence.
"In the United States, you have an abundance of religions trying to motivate Americans to greater involvement," said Roger Finke, a sociologist at Penn State University. "It's one thing that makes a tremendous difference here."
The polling was conducted in May in the United States, Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Mexico, South Korea and Spain.
Nearly all U.S. respondents said faith is important to them and only 2 percent said they do not believe in God. Almost 40 percent said religious leaders should try to sway policymakers, notably higher than in other countries.
"Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian policies and religious leaders have an obligation to speak out on public policy, otherwise they're wimps," said David Black, a retiree from Osborne, Pa., who agreed to be interviewed after he was polled.
In contrast, 85 percent of French object to clergy activism — the strongest opposition of any nation surveyed. France has strict curbs on public religious expression and, according to the poll, 19 percent are atheists. South Korea is the only other nation with that high a percentage of nonbelievers.
Australians are generally split over the importance of faith, while two-thirds of South Koreans and Canadians said religion is central to their lives. People in all three countries strongly oppose mixing religion and politics.
Researchers disagree over why people in the United States have such a different religious outlook, said Brent Nelsen, an expert in politics and religion at Furman University in South Carolina.
Some say rejecting religion is a natural response to modernization and consider the United States a strange exception to the trend. Others say Europe is the anomaly; people in modernized countries inevitably return to religion because they yearn for tradition, according to the theory.
Some analysts, like Finke, use a business model. According to his theory, a long history of religious freedom in the United States created a greater supply of worship options than in other countries, and that proliferation inspired wider observance. Some European countries still subsidize churches, in effect regulating or limiting religious options, Finke said.
History also could be a factor.
Many countries other than the United States have been through bloody religious conflict that contributes to their suspicion of giving clergy any say in policy.
A variety of factors contribute to the sentiment about separating religion and politics.
"In Germany, they have a Christian Democratic Party, and they talk about Christian values, but they don't talk about them in quite the same way that we do," Nelsen said. "For them, the Christian part of the Christian values are held privately and it's not that acceptable to bring those out into the open."
In Spain, where the government subsidizes the Catholic Church, and in Germany, which is split between Catholics and Protestants, people are about evenly divided over whether they consider faith important. The results are almost identical in Britain, whose state church, the Church of England, is struggling to fill pews.
Italians are the only European exception in the poll. Eighty percent said religion is significant to them and just over half said they unquestioningly believe in God.
But even in Italy, home to the Catholic Church, resistance to religious engagement in politics is evident. Only three in 10 think the clergy should try to influence government decisions; a lower percentage in Spain, Germany and England said the same.
Within the United States, some of the most pressing policy issues involve complex moral questions — such as gay marriage, abortion and stem cell research — that understandably draw religious leaders into public debate, said John Green, an expert on religion and politics at the University of Akron.
The poll found Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to think clergy should try to influence government decisions — a sign of the challenges ahead for Democrats as they attempt to reach out to more religious voters.
"Rightly or wrongly, Republicans tend to perceive religion as, quote-unquote, `on their side,'" Green said.
The survey did find trends in belief that transcend national boundaries. Women tend to be more devout than men, and older people have stronger faith than younger people.
The Associated Press-Ipsos polls of about 1,000 adults in each of the 10 countries were taken May 12-26. Each has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
posted on June 6, 2005 09:56:42 AM new
Europe has been the center of religious wars for a thousand years. When you've got country A that is primarily Catholic, bordering on Protestant country B, alonside Muslim country C, and adjacent to Hindu country D, all within a few hundred miles of each other, it tends to be a good idea not to get too pushy or boastful with your religious beliefs, because if someone takes offense, things can get messy fast.
America has no neighbors with conflicting religion. Mexico is heavily Catholic, which isn't a big conflict with the USA, and Canada seems to have similar outlooks to the US as well. There just has been no need to hide or be ashamed of our religious beliefs. Not necessarily because we're more spiritual, but for simple geographic reasons... No bordering hostile nations.
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Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on June 6, 2005 10:24:25 AM new
No surprise here, people came here to escape religious persecution. And people wonder why the republicans are the stronger party now.
posted on June 6, 2005 10:35:15 AM new"Rightly or wrongly, Republicans tend to perceive religion as, quote-unquote, `on their side,'" Green said.
Libra, this is the biggest problem I see for Republicans. They believe God is their trump card while the other side has nothing. Who would you vote for? The God side or the "non-God" side? God in politics is nothing more than a tool used to sway voters. How weak is that?
posted on June 6, 2005 10:43:52 AM new
Personally Ron, I find your theory ironic. The ancestors of the religious right (which frighteningly makes up so much of the republican party) may have come here to escape religious persecution but it seems these days their point is to prepetrate it. These days we have religious groups buying their way into our legal system and working to create laws based on religious doctine rather than common sense.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 6, 2005 10:50:50 AM new
I love living in a country where we were given by our founding fathers, the Constitutional right to practice our religions freely.
And I'm happy everytime I read of some court case where a religious person fought for that right - against those who wish to limit our freedom. I support, financially, groups like the ACLJ who fight against groups like the ACLU and others who wish to limit our rights.
Most recently another successful case was won by a high school girl...top of her class...who was told by the school she couldn't mention God in her speech to her graduating class. She won....and we're seeing more and more of that.
Just another wonderful thing about living here, rather than in Europe or Canada or ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 6, 2005 11:20:52 AM new
It would be a miracle if linduh ever did any research on the ACLU.....won't do it because it disproves her theory.
The ACLU has PROVEN RECORDS, verifiable, authentic documentation...that it has defended religious gruops. Everybody...look it up , it's there.
The problem is that when an entity, say like the ACLU, or MPR, presents facts...it naturally makes the relgious right look ridiculous so many think they are left leaning when all they are is FAIR.
Why does "god' have to be mentioned in a speech at a graduation....it's a
g r a d ua t i o n
not a prayer service.
The more you have to show off your religion....the less you have.
posted on June 6, 2005 11:37:45 AM new
I bed your pardon KD, search religion and democrats and you will see that there are many democrats that are religious. Religion has no party lines it is just that the Republicans talk about it more. So what, is that a crime?
What is a problem is that a party has no positive ideas for the future. All they do is bash the other party as shown in the thread about Dean. I listened to Nancy Polisi (sp) speaking to a graduation and she had nothing to say about the future. All she does is talk, wet her mouth and talk with her hands and say nothing and she is the minority leader.
Republicans believe in Religious freedom, they are anti abortion, they don't believe in partial abortion and they are vocal about it. They also don't believe in embryonic stem cell research. I also believe that there are a number of democrats believe in that but are afraid to say anything for fear of a backlash.
I see that Canada is also black. What do you think about that KD? Are you surprised?
posted on June 6, 2005 11:54:50 AM new
Libra, I realize that Democrats are religious as well, but like Fenix said, you don't tend to see them trying to shove their beliefs down anyone's throat or using it to gain political power as often as the Republicans do. The term religious-left isn't even in the dictionary.
As for Canada being black, I'm not sure what you mean.
posted on June 6, 2005 12:47:14 PM new
Maybe she's talking about our deficit, Kiara.
Ron, I also agree that a little bit of anything should be ok in politics, just not a monopoly on religion AND politics like the Republicans seem to think they have.
posted on June 6, 2005 12:50:13 PM new
I always get a kick out of listening to the lefties gripe about the religious right.
Yes, Libra, there is a religious left too. The lefties here just overlook that they do exactly the same thing when trying to get their candidate elected.
They just CHOOSE to overlook it....because THAT'S okay. It's that old double standand they always use.
I could post hundreds of links where the left does the same thing. KERRY did the same thing....preaching in churches for support for his election. You lefties fool on one except yourselves about the truth of what's going on....on BOTH sides of the aisle.
Black clergy campaigning
A coalition of Phila. churches mobilizes congregations for get-out-the vote effort.
By Michael Currie Schaffer and Jim Remsen
Inquirer Staff Writers
Mayor Street's message to the 100 pastors gathered at a national black clergy summit here this month couldn't have been more partisan.
"We have to get our people out to the polls, and we have to get them out in a big sort of way," the Democratic mayor declared. "If the clergy in this country says 'get out to the polls and vote for John Kerry,' our people will go."
Street should know. African American pastors in Philadelphia mobilized an army of church volunteers from their traditionally Democratic memberships to help drive him to victory in 1999 and to an overwhelming reelection last year.
The Kerry-Edwards campaign is hoping for the same. Black Clergy of Philadelphia and Vicinity, an influential group of pastors from about 450 churches, has voted to back the Democratic ticket and is gearing up a "Take Your Soul to the Poll" campaign in hopes of delivering the African American electorate on election day.
The clergy group, whose churches' combined membership is estimated at 250,000, is organizing rallies next weekend and the weekend after. It also has promised 30 vans to drive elderly congregants to the polls and has sent hundreds of volunteers directly to the Kerry campaign, said the Rev. Steven Avinger, who leads the organization's political commission.
The campaign, in turn, has energetically courted the local clergy. Kerry has met with Philadelphia ministers twice, spokesman Mark Nevins said, and Edwards attended services last month at Bright Hope Baptist Church, where former U.S. Rep. William Gray is the senior pastor. The campaign has a staff of 10 working on outreach efforts involving black churches, said Don Jones, a campaign staffer who leads the outreach. "We've activated every minister," Jones said.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 6, 2005 12:56:00 PM new
One more for good measure....but google 'kerry campaigns in churches' and see for yourselves.
Kerry blends faith, politics in Ohio campaigning
Counters attacks on his stands on abortion, gay marriage, embryonic stem-cell research
Monday, October 18, 2004
By Maeve Reston, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- After a day of courting "red state" voters in farm country with a visit to church and an application for an Ohio hunting license, John F. Kerry spoke to his Democratic base yesterday at traditionally black church linking his faith to the work he would do as president.
Related article
Kerry coming here
"Well my friends -- 16 days," Kerry said, alluding to the final stretch before Election Day as he borrowed a well-worn line from the hymn "Amazing Grace."
"Through many dangers, toils and snares I have already come. 'Tis grace that brought me safe thus far and grace will lead me home," he said, as some 1,500 people in the pews of Mount Olivet Baptist Church in Columbus roared in approval.
Over the last few months, Kerry has spoken regularly on Sundays at black churches like this one, trying to strike a delicate balance between expressions of his faith and campaign rhetoric. But in these waning days of the campaign, Kerry, who is Catholic, is also threading more references to his religion into campaign appearances -- most prominently before 51 million viewers in his debate with President Bush last week.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 6, 2005 01:24:42 PM new
KD - It wasn't directed AT you...but rather towards the argument that it's ONLY happening with the 'religious right'.
Matter of fact, in all the reading I was doing right before the elections, I don't remember ONE case of where they reported President Bush at the pulpit of any church...preaching politics.
The MSM press is very biased....so of course most don't 'hear' about the actions of the religious left very often. They only wish to point out what the 'right' is doing and use THEIR faith against THEM.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
Do you mean the graph from the link in your first post?
An Associated Press/Ipsos poll on religion and politics finds most people want religious leaders to stay out of government decisions, and that the United States differs from other wealthy nations in its religious devotion. Interviews were conducted in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Mexico, South Korea, Spain, the United Kingdom and the United States between May 13 and May 26; the margin of error is plus or minus three percent. Click on the arrow above or the links below for poll results.
Actually it shows the countries that were involved in the poll results........ my monitor on this computer that I'm presently on shows them a deep blue color but perhaps it looks black on your screen for the countries polled? Is that what you mean by Canada being black?
I clicked on the poll results and I don't see anywhere else how the color black relates to Canada. If I'm missing something perhaps you can explain it better to me as I'm willing to listen.
posted on June 6, 2005 04:21:40 PM new
Here's some irony for you.
The only country more religious than the US is the one filled with people that republicans don't want in the US.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 6, 2005 04:24:37 PM new
Mine shows blue also. Anyway, the point you're making is that most countries don't mix religion with politics, but the ones that do are what, better?
posted on June 6, 2005 05:55:51 PM new
Thanks, Libra63........ though I still don't understand the relevance of Canada being black/blue or why Kraft may be surprised.
Interesting observation, Fenix. I was looking at another graph that showed church attendance (one or more times per week) among the top 50 countries of the world and Finland was down on the list as #48 with only 4% attending church.
BTW, Finland was recently chosen as the least corrupt country in the world for the fifth year running.
