posted on July 29, 2005 06:54:35 PM new
a liberal?
Is there a list of things you have to be for or against
As in the thread that Profe started about obese people, then he edits it, and says that, he's a liberal.
Ok, so your a liberal, is that on the list profe, to never have an opinion on anything, because, somewhere, somehow, you are going to offend someone, somewhere, or its not politically correct?
If Liberals are so accepting of people, then why are they hammering on conservatives? or what they call 'neocons' (well and worse)
Are not all people entitled to their opinions?
I state my opinions or beliefs and I don't have to check with the 'Conservative handbook' if it was OK to have that opinion.
So, someone, explain to me the do's and don'ts of being a liberal.
posted on July 29, 2005 07:07:26 PM new
Near, imo if your replaced the word liberal with conservative, then I'd feel the same way. Are you talking about something in particular?
posted on July 29, 2005 07:18:50 PM new
As a Liberal I believe...
Liberals care about somebody who isn't them...
...believe in equality of all people and not just the rich.
...believe in everyone paying their fair share of taxes...
...believe humans have an obligation and responsibility to protect the environment...
believe in science...
believe war should be the last option...
believe bumper stickers are not what you should base policy on or vote because of...
...believe that a good patriotic citizen pays attention to, questions, criticizes and holds accountable their representatives...
believe that every person has a right to control their own medical procedures without interference from politicians...die when they want and give birth if they want, or not....
believe in indepenent thought (not all Liberals agree on everything)...
knows that blind obedience turns people to sheep.....
believe if you are TRULY religious you don't have to say so on your front lawn or anyone's lawn....
Just a few things that I believe as a Liberal.....no, I am not "accepting" of blood thirsty, war mongering , intolerant, bigoted, cold hearted , selfish, unfair, people who think everyone should be them.
posted on July 29, 2005 07:27:03 PM new
Kraft, yeah, I was referring, right now, to profe thread. He said he changed his mind. While, I don't know what happened, I don't believe he did. And then said something about 'I'm liberal' (the reason he edited out what he posted in the OP) Ok did that make sense?
then there are some posters, who shall remain nameless, that come back with a different ID
( ) and rant and rave and all whenever a 'neocon' posts something (sometimes it doesn't even matter what is posted, they are against it)
Ok, this whole subject is getting painful so I had to take some painkillers....... ouch
posted on July 29, 2005 07:34:00 PM new
Near if you think too much about the differences and beliefs you are going to end up confused with a major headache.
For instance, Liberals tend have more of a live and let live attitude to others regarding lifestyles and the rights that should be accorded (or at least not denied) but republicans believe in a system that involves less government intervention into personal lives while simultaneously calling on stricter government regulations on individuals lives.
My favorite though is that republicans who believe strongly in the Constitution tend to hold the ACLU in high disdain when their only purpose is to defend the Constitution.
Maybe it's just because I'm liberal or maybe it's because I have spent too much time watching Fox News but I think that liberals tend to be less divisive, more accepting of change and individual differences.... and have more non military related tattoos.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 29, 2005 07:40:56 PM new
LOL fenix, this was a good reason to take the painkillers
more accepting of change and individual differences..
I believe I am. Change is inevitable. Individual differences...... everyone is different, if everyone were the same, we would all be living in Stepfordville
Ok, who found out about my tat and spread it all over the internet?? LOL!
posted on July 29, 2005 07:42:36 PM new
YOu what the problem is Near? You are liberal and you just did not know it.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 29, 2005 07:44:53 PM new
more accepting of change and individual differences
Ok, thats it. (already said above change is inevitable)
Accepting individual differences. There. Now, if your a liberal, and that is one of your beliefs, then, you have to accept peoples own views on religion, abortion, etc. You do not have to believe the same way, but accept the fact that there are going to be people who are against abortion, and who are religious.
posted on July 29, 2005 07:51:05 PM new
posted at the same time
fenix, I think I tend to be more conservative. I believe in marriage between a man and woman. Ok that is what I believe, you may not. And I do not go and put down gays. People can live the way they want. But I believe that people were created (yes created ) and created to be hetrosexual.
I don't believe in abortion. A lot may believe in it. I don't think my mind can be changed on that.
I believe in God, and that God created this whole mess but I tend to believe creation with evolution. I do believe in Science, but believe that there is a higher power that brought about evolution, and dinosaurs
I wasn't kidding about the painkillers, and they are starting to kick in, so I probably screwed this post up! LOL
posted on July 29, 2005 07:51:30 PM new
"""As a Liberal I believe...
Since you are a liberal, where is this all written? Seriously. All of the above that you posted, I believe in also( then you are a liberal). So where is the difference here?
Because I vote Republican most of the time, and I voted for Pres. Bush, the last 2 elections?''''
I think before you vote again NTS you should study the platforms and policies of those you vote for ....you voted for Bush who is totally opposed to everything in my post which you just said you agree with !!!!!!.?????????
posted on July 29, 2005 07:58:29 PM new
Sure I always read everything about who I do vote for, including our local gov't postitions, and a few were Democrat
As for abortion, it is NOT illegal. Bushs Personal views may be against it, but it is LEGAL
Its also NOT against the law to live in a gay relationship. Sure states have tried to make gay marriages legal, with some success and with no success. (not sure if VT is still legal, or MA? I don't keep up on it)
posted on July 29, 2005 08:02:23 PM new
I think that if you look at my track record on here you will find that I am rather accepting of others religions. I've always stated that people seek out that which helps them best get thru the day so who am I to tell them they are wrong. What I have noticed however is that most religious people are not very tolerent of those that do not share their beliefs. Libra (yes, I know, not here but valid example) consistantly portrayed athiests as the embodiment of evil and the downfall of society. Unfortunately that is not exactly a rare reaction from many conservatives.
As for Abortion, by all means I don't think that everyone has to believe in it. That would be silly. I can understand and respect that there are individuals that have a moral objection to it. What I have a problem with however is those that feel that their moral objection somehow overrides the individual decisions of others in terms of what is best for them. If I am 21 years old and in college and dealing with the stress and responsibilities young adulthood and the pressures of college and come to the decision that a full term preganacy is not something that I desire or that I believe is in the best interest of the path that I am on right now or my future, why should the moral beliefs of an uninvolved party have the ability to override my decision?
You believe that liberals should respect that not everyone is going to have the same beliefs on these subjects, my question is, do you feel the same should be true for conservatives and if so, do you think it is?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
[ edited by fenix03 on Jul 29, 2005 08:06 PM ]
posted on July 29, 2005 08:44:29 PM new
What makes a Liberal..
1. Liberals have larger brains and are more intelligent than Conservatives.
2. Liberals have bigger hearts and are more loving and kind than Conservatives.
3. Liberals are way better looking than Conservatives.
4.Liberals have better vision and see the world in color,and wide screen mode, Conservatives use tunnel vision mode, in black and white only.
5.Liberals are free thinkers always looking ahead, Conservatives are followers who feel more comfortable within tight guidelines and oppose change.
6.Liberals are more generous, Conservatives are penny pinching and selfish.
Sorry Near..thought you knew me by now..tongue always in cheek..
[ edited by maggiemuggins on Jul 30, 2005 07:53 AM ]
posted on July 29, 2005 09:05:42 PM new
You believe that liberals should respect that not everyone is going to have the same beliefs on these subjects, my question is, do you feel the same should be true for conservatives and if so, do you think it is?
I beleive that conservatives should have respect for everyones beliefs and opinions.
Do I think that is the way it is? No, and I believe thats true for both 'sides' in most cases.
fenix, I see you as a more 'moderate' liberal, from your postings.
maggie, since there is no smileys, I am taking that what you posted you believe is true, so I'll have to agree with all, but 4, 5, and 6, the 'conservatives' that I do know, do not have tunnel vision, change is inevitable, as I said above, and we all have to look ahead. And most conservatives are not penny pinching whatevers, at least we are not. As for not being loving and kind, in my own opinion, that all depends on individuals. in our family I think we are.
As for looks and brains, your probably right, for myself, I don't have 'em, so I'll give that to Liberals
posted on July 29, 2005 09:17:44 PM new
Near - just out of curiosity - do you see me as a moderate on a general society scale, or just on the Round table scale? Personally I think more liberal than moderate on the first but that I end up seeming more moderate in comparision to some of the more vocal liberals on these boards. (Hell, sometimes they make me wonder if I flat out conservative, then I remember that there is still a "Rock for Choice" concert T in my closet. )
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 29, 2005 09:41:21 PM new
fenix, I believe I see you more moderate here, because, what I read,from most, not all, posters who claim to be liberal, post like raving, ranting hot headed posters, the 'if you don't go along with what I say, your a freakin facist neo con pig' or something along those lines. You do not post like that, so that is where I see you as moderate. Your not ranting an ranking on the 'facist neo con pigs'
That on a personal 'real world', I believe your like the Democrats that I know. We can agree to disagree, and still be friends, YES I do have friends that are Democrats, for real And we do know each others beliefs, and we don't go in depth about those, maybe thats what keeps us friends?
And you've never gone on a 'name calling spree' on other posters, and that is something I try to stay away from also
Now, I have got to get ready for a family picnic tommorow. And they are all Republicans!! LOL
posted on July 29, 2005 09:45:55 PM new
Have fun on your picnic - it sounds like so much more fun than doing inventory which is my plan for the weekend. Yuk!
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 30, 2005 04:21:57 AM new
NTS, once again you talk like a Liberal and keep referring to "we" who are conservative.
I know a life long Republican, or he VOTED REpublican because that's what he was raised to do, who took a test that determined if you're a Lib or a Conservative....he found out that his beliefs indicated he was a Lib!
But he still votes Republican because that's what he was raised to do !
NTS...Try to break out of the box.
I'm sorry but you do qualify as a neocon(tunnel vision) when you think only Liberals go off on name calling binges in here.
Plus you don't answer simple direct questions... like why did you vote for Bush?
posted on July 30, 2005 04:40:45 AM new
I didnt choose to be a liberal, I was born a liberal
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 30, 2005 04:52:41 AM new
My changing my mind seems to have really thrown you for a loop NTS, sorry. I know there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of mind changing going on here in the RT, but in real life, It happens all the time.
Take the President's boy, Senator Frist for example. He's just done a 180 on stem cell research...says the Bush policy needs to change. It was largely upon his recommendations that the President formed his policy 4 years ago, and now here he goes changing his mind. Maybe that makes him a liberal now, I don't know, what do you think?
____________________________________________
Fue por lana y saliσ trasquilado...
posted on July 30, 2005 05:44:50 AM new
Fenix, I see you as jockying from your high horse to the fence and occassionally to a postion that from my viewpoint is conservative on issues such as healthcare and labor/management. Otherwise, you are a good liberal and I enjoy reading your posts.
BTW...Linda probably believes that since you read and watch Fox news that you must be a right wing Republican as she thinks that since I have read the Moscow Times that I must be a Russian communist. LOL.
I'm out of town right now, so I don't have time to stay the course of this very interesting discussion.
posted on July 30, 2005 08:06:33 AM new
Frist is doing the exact same thing hillary is, imo - typical politicans.
Changing positions because they both want a chance at the Presidency in 2008. Whereas to this President polls don't change his views....values.
--------
I've always seen fenix as a more moderate dem too. But you're right...maybe it's because she can post/debate in a civil manner that is what was different.
--------------
Thanks maggie for your list.....great laughs if you really see most liberals that way.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 30, 2005 09:32:04 AM new
I believe in 1 thread I said a liberal is someone who took too much political science, philosophy, and art courses in school and not enough math, chemistry, and history.
For example, I'll guarantee any liberal worth his salt has had hour long discussions of the beauties of socialism/communism. How we all have a communal storehouse and take just what we need, etc, etc, and how the fundamentals of Karl Marx would engender the perfect society.
A conservative merely points out that since the beginning of time this has never worked because 1 in 3 is a thief, and Karl Marx's family died of disease and malnutrition.
posted on July 30, 2005 09:33:09 AM new
Linda - you forget that Frist was elected to represent the people that elected him, not to impose his person beliefs upon them. Since the majority of the country believes that stem cell should be opened up more I see it as him doing his sworn duty as a representative of the people.
Helen - you may be right when it comes to management but that comes from my experiences. I walked in to a company with 7 employees, customers, a product that had been marketed and sold but not actually created and a negative balance sheet. Right after I started the manager went on vacation and never came back and I had to figure out how to create the product, build the market, make payroll each week and justify it all the know it all jerk that was the head of the parent company. I got a trial by fire in trying to find the balance. Not everyone was always happy and there were many occasions when I had to do things I didn't want to do but if I had made everyone in the office happy, the parent office would have shut us down and no would have been happy. Sacrifices suck but sometimes they have to be made for the greater good.
As for healthcare I'm not sure I know what you mean. I don't support universal healthcare but that is based on practical not philosophical differences. I simply don't trust our government enough to put my health in their hands. I think there needs to massive reforms to enable people to be able to afford their own healthcare without government interference in the decisions.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 30, 2005 09:49:59 AM new
fenix - Linda - you forget....
LOL....no, fenix I don't forget that he's a republican....and that the repubican base is VERY upset with his flip-flop.
that Frist was elected to represent the people that elected him,
who, from what I've heard are outraged at this change in him....
not to impose his person beliefs upon them.
This has nothing to do with his personal beliefs....it's pure political advantage...just like hillary's changes are....you think I believe she's really all of a sudden becoming a MODERATE dem? not on your life. lol
Since the majority of the country believes that stem cell should be opened up
what you and I have discussed before is ther are many Americans who might agree with more research taking place....but DON'T agree with it being Federally funded. There already IS much research on going....this issue is all about FEDERAL FUNDING....vs private funding.
more I see it as him doing his sworn duty as a representative of the people. LOL yea...right.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 30, 2005 09:50:45 AM new
What makes a liberal?
Someone who gladly spends someone else's money, wants things they haven't earned and is easily swayed into believing people on the opposite side are evil.
Claim to be self thinkers but are the biggest koolaid drinkers of all.
Claim to be tolerant but show the least tolerance of all.
Liberals claim to care, but only if they get the some sort of recognition for it.
Are you talking about something in particular?
) and rant and rave and all whenever a 'neocon' posts something (sometimes it doesn't even matter what is posted, they are against it)
