posted on September 6, 2005 08:14:40 AM new
NEW ORLEANS FLASHBACK: OFFICALS WARNED RESIDENTS 'YOU'LL BE ON YOUR OWN'
Mon Sep 05 2005 18:57:15 ET
Before residents had ever heard the words "Hurricane Katrina," the New Orleans TIMES-PICAYUNE ran a story warning residents: If you stay behind during a big storm, you'll be on your own!
Editors at TIMES-PICAYUNE on Monday called for every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency to be fired. In an open letter to President Bush, the paper said: "Our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been were not. That's to the government's shame."
But the TIMES-PICAYUNEpublished a story on July 24, 2005 stating: City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give a historically blunt message: "In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own."
Staff writer Bruce Nolan reported some 7 weeks before Katrina: "In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation.
"In the video, made by the anti-poverty agency Total Community Action, they urge those people to make arrangements now by finding their own ways to leave the city in the event of an evacuation.
"You're responsible for your safety, and you should be responsible for the person next to you," Wilkins said in an interview. "If you have some room to get that person out of town, the Red Cross will have a space for that person outside the area. We can help you."
I gave my liberal neighbors son a book for his birthday. He went crazy trying to find where to put the batteries.
posted on September 6, 2005 08:43:24 AM new
Yes, I think all rational people understand that in a crisis like this....they shouldn't rely on anyone other than themselves to survive.
But as we see here.....doesn't matter to the liberals, the angry left, that they were asked to leave, warned to leave, then ordered to leave. Nope...it's still everybody else fault.
Even those who had rescuers trying to help them....some refused to get in because they didn't allow them to bring their animals along. I completely understand the love they have for their animals....but I'll never understand refusing help to stay alive, because these were the rules. Space for people...before space for animals. But again, it was their choice to stay.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on September 6, 2005 08:55:43 AM new
the folks in New Orleans have faced many storms and floods,sometimes it will rain for days and you get a flood!
But since they survive all these flood and canes,they think they can survive this one-the attic,the second floor etc.
No one have a crystal ball which tells them it could be that bad.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on September 6, 2005 09:09:05 AM new
That's very true. We've all heard/read for years about all the floods around the Mississippi River. The subject was always in the news.
But when choice are to be made....only those making those choices have to live with the consequences of those same decisions. They choose to stay....no one else to blame. They made a 'wrong' call.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on September 6, 2005 05:48:15 PM new
Most likely fenix because you don't understand the 'chain of command' for help to be given in an emergency. Maybe that's why.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on September 6, 2005 05:55:29 PM new
What does that have to do with my statement Linda? I am simply thinking that you and Bear are probably among the 8% that rated the government response a A. It was a conservative that mocked that 8%.
Hell even the government is admitting that they screwed up. Trent Lott read FEMA the riot act this morning for refusing to release trailers specifically meant for this type of situation while they sort thru red tape.
Like many have said before Linda - not everything is absolute as you feel it should be. The fact that you have no problem with the death of thousands of people simply because someone did not dot the i's correctly makes my skin crawl. I never knew that being a good conservative means sacrificing your humanity.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 6, 2005 05:58:42 PM new
fenix - Lately you've taking to assuming the thoughts of others, rather than just sticking to what they actually say themselves. I'm not sure why you're choosing to do so....but anyone who has read MY statements will see I spread the blame around. But put it more where it actually belongs....on those local officials who left the people they represent down, in a HUGE way.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on September 6, 2005 06:37:31 PM newLately you've taking to assuming the thoughts of others, rather than just sticking to what they actually say themselves. I'm not sure why you're choosing to do so....but anyone who has read MY statements will see I spread the blame around. But put it more where it actually belongs....on those local officials who left the people they represent down, in a HUGE way.
Without repeating a page of quotes already made by lindak where she has blamed the victims...... right here on this page is another one from her.
They choose to stay....no one else to blame. They made a 'wrong' call.
Hmmm....... spreading the blame around?? You just blamed the victims again and said NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME.
posted on September 6, 2005 06:38:49 PM new
Linda - unless you have cloned yourself I think you meant you, not others. All I have seen from you post after post after post is that peole were told to leave and did not and that they bear the responsibility for that. If 14 times you say it's the fault of the people and once you add as an afterthought that the city had some responsibility as well, you'll have to excuse me if I don't look at that as a heart felt belief of yours. If you are objecting to my statement that it seems that you have sacrificed your humanity in the name of being a good conservative it is because it is an opinion that has been formed by the body of your posts for the past week. If you are unable to understand why one would form such an opinion.. look back at your contributions this past week. They are by and large devoid of compassion.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 6, 2005 07:52:22 PM newNow, those who REFUSE to do so, are stupid in imo opinion. They just choose to live in denial....as did those who have lived in these areas, knowing full well, what the risk of both hurricanes and levees breaking would mean. Not like this is the first time it's happened.....
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Waiting for the government, or anyone else to 'come save' you is stupid....period. Help yourself...improve your own situation and that of any others you can.....like the guy who had a couple of brain cells and got a school bus to take himself and others out.
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They didn't come up with the statement 'the survival of the fittest' for no reason. Some don't have the brains or reasoning ability to take care of themselves without someone telling them what they should do.
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That's from the first couple pages of one thread. Tell you what - if you believe that my assesment of the attitude that you have put forth in this forum is incorrect... prove it. All I can find from you time after time after time is you sayingf it's their own damn fault. Even the people that left and went to the Dome and the convention center as they were told were stuck in conditions where you would not board a dog but not a mention of that. No compassion shown for those individuals... nothing... just a bunch of cold hearted crap.
Prove me wrong Linda - show me where you have done anything other than blame victims.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Sep 6, 2005 07:52 PM ]
posted on September 7, 2005 12:12:58 AM new
fenix, you expected an answer???
In the "What was she thinking" thread , lindaKKK actually LAUGHED at Maggie's plight after the hurricane. She thinks what those people went through is funny!!!!!!
LindaKKK,""They didn't come up with the statement 'the survival of the fittest' for no reason. Some don't have the brains or reasoning ability to take care of themselves without someone telling them what they should do."""
No, it was "survival of the RICHEST".
Rich people don't necessarily have more brains than poor people, LindaKKK, just more money.
posted on September 7, 2005 03:56:44 AM new
fenix - I didn't deny I made those statements.....but I'm saying I've made others that stated there is a lot of blame to be shared. Yes, I fully expect people to have enough common sense to remove themselves from a threat of this kind. Maggie's husband did...other's did. All who could have SHOULD have. Then I've also blamed the local authorities for their lack of leadership. THEY'RE the most responsible in this case, imo. It was their job to follow the guidelines established in the event situations like this happen....they failed miserably.
I haven't blamed FEMA at this point as I've read their response where they said the reason they didn't respond quicker is they weren't notified to come by the local and state authorities.
But while you sit here and accuse me of ONLY blaming the victims....and that's just not true....most every liberal here....has ONLY been trying to blame this President for ALL this mess. But, I know....that's oh-so-different. Look at the fit you're having about what you see as my lack of compassion when NO LIBERAL here has posted that those same people should have taken the opportunity to get out when they could have. To me, that's no different. I'm pointing out what you guys fail to see, imo.
Read the link I posted from those who can clearly see the TRUTH as to why the liberals are USING this crisis as just another means to bash this President. I posted it because that is how I see this too.
You call me on 'too' many posts saying the victims should have done more to take care of themselves...and yes, I strongly believe that. I would have, you would have, maggie and her husband have left at least three times that I'm aware of. They had the sense to get to safety. Many on the scene got to safety, like those who took the school buses filled with others to safety.
Sometimes victims become victims BECAUSE of their OWN actions. Imo, this has happened here....and I'm not speaking about those who couldn't get out....but all those who could have but chose not to do so.
If there's ever an earthquake out in CA, I sure hope you don't sit around waiting for some government agency to come 'save' you. But rather that you were mature enough to have planned for being able to survive on your own power for a few days to a week, as they've told all their citizens to do for years and years now. I know living in CA you're heard that over and over....so will it be my supposed 'lack of compassion' that hundreds of thousands of people decide 'I don't have to do that'. I'll just not worry about it. Then when it happens it's MY fault YOU didn't prepare?
Don't think so fenix.
Maybe some here need to re-read the topic subject of this thread......they were warned. It's called a choice.....maggie and her husband made different choices...we saw the hsy lines of cars heeding that advice and leaving the area....others could have too.
Has nothing to do with a lack of feeling compassion for those who weren't able to get out on their own, nor for all the deaths. I can see how differently the Mississippi state handled their crisis though, compared to NO. Poor leadership.
This is a National tragedy....we ALL can see that. Mother Nature turned her full wrath on that part of America.....and ALL are helping them pull out of it. But heck, the liberals here are already complaining about how 'they're NOT comfortable' in their new, safe environment....in the stadium, rather than seeing it as most do...it's a better situation for them in short run.
posted on September 7, 2005 06:02:55 AM new"I haven't blamed FEMA at this point as I've read their response where they said the reason they didn't respond quicker is they weren't notified to come by the local and state authorities"
They haven't said that they weren't notified. FEMA and the President WERE NOTIFIED and I posted the notification links.
The Governor of Louisiana took the proper steps August 28 as specified by law.
Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act.
http://www.fema.gov/library/stafact.shtm
Linda, consideration for the attitudes, feelings and circumstances of others is not determined by political philosophy. Forget the Liberal, Conservative horseshit. Most people of both political ideologies have compassion and understanding for those in New Orleans who were unable to comply with the evacuation order. The question is why you cannot appreciate or sympathize with their plight. Instead, you carry on with your crusade to blame the victims, that you characterize as being immature and unprepared. How in the hell can anyone prepare to survive a flood.
posted on September 7, 2005 06:06:48 AM new
Linda - I don't know how to tell you this ... but liberals are not the only ones blaming the government. In fact, even after watching Fox News, the ultimate conservative cheerleader channel, I think that you and Bear are the only ones that still find no fault with the federal governments reaction.
As for your complete twisting of others opinions in yourr last sentence.... But heck, the liberals here are already complaining about how 'they're NOT comfortable' in their new, safe environment., I trust this means that you will no longer be complaining that others twist your words. You did some world class tumbling to twist that one to where you wanted it to be.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
Louisiana Officials Could Lose the Katrina Blame Game
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
September 07, 2005
(CNSNews.com) - The Bush administration is being widely criticized for the emergency response to Hurricane Katrina and the allegedly inadequate protection for "the big one" that residents had long feared would hit New Orleans. But research into more than ten years of reporting on hurricane and flood damage mitigation efforts in and around New Orleans indicates that local and state officials did not use federal money that was available for levee improvements or coastal reinforcement and often did not secure local matching funds that would have generated even more federal funding.
In December of 1995, the Orleans Levee Board, the local government entity that oversees the levees and floodgates designed to protect New Orleans and the surrounding areas from rising waters, bragged in a supplement to the Times-Picayune newspaper about federal money received to protect the region from hurricanes.
"In the past four years, the Orleans Levee Board has built up its arsenal. The additional defenses are so critical that Levee Commissioners marched into Congress and brought back almost $60 million to help pay for protection," the pamphlet declared. "The most ambitious flood-fighting plan in generations was drafted. An unprecedented $140 million building campaign launched 41 projects."
The levee board promised Times-Picayune readers that the "few manageable gaps" in the walls protecting the city from Mother Nature's waters "will be sealed within four years (1999) completing our circle of protecti."
But less than a year later, that same levee board was denied the authority to refinance its debts. Legislative Auditor Dan Kyle "repeatedly faulted the Levee Board for the way it awards contracts, spends money and ignores public bid laws," according to the Times-Picayune. The newspaper quoted Kyle as saying that the board was near bankruptcy and should not be allowed to refinance any bonds, or issue new ones, until it submitted an acceptable plan to achieve solvency.
Blocked from financing the local portion of the flood fighting efforts, the levee board was unable to spend the federal matching funds that had been designated for the project.
By 1998, Louisiana's state government had a $2 billion construction budget, but less than one tenth of one percent of that -- $1.98 million -- was dedicated to levee improvements in the New Orleans area. State appropriators were able to find $22 million that year to renovate a new home for the Louisiana Supreme Court and $35 million for one phase of an expansion to the New Orleans convention center.
The following year, the state legislature did appropriate $49.5 million for levee improvements, but the proposed spending had to be allocated by the State Bond Commission before the projects could receive financing. The commission placed the levee improvements in the "Priority 5" category, among the projects least likely to receive full or immediate funding
The Orleans Levee Board was also forced to defer $3.7 million in capital improvement projects in its 2001 budget after residents of the area rejected a proposed tax increase to fund its expanding operations. Long term deferments to nearly 60 projects, based on the revenue shortfall, totaled $47 million worth of work, including projects to shore up the floodwalls.
No new state money had been allocated to the area's hurricane protection projects as of October of 2002, leaving the available 65 percent federal matching funds for such construction untouched.
"The problem is money is real tight in Baton Rouge right now," state Sen. Francis Heitmeier (D-Algiers) told the Times-Picayune. "We have to do with what we can get."
Louisiana Commissioner of Administration Mark Drennen told local officials that, if they reduced their requests for state funding in other, less critical areas, they would have a better chance of getting the requested funds for levee improvements. The newspaper reported that in 2000 and 2001,the Bond Commission has approved or pledged millions of dollars for projects in Jefferson Parish, including construction of the Tournament Players Club golf course near Westwego, the relocation of Hickory Avenue in Jefferson (Parish) and historic district development in Westwego."
There is no record of such discretionary funding requests being reduced or withdrawn, but in October of 2003, nearby St. Charles Parish did receive a federal grant for $475,000 to build bike paths on top of its levees.
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"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on September 7, 2005 06:44:20 AM new
Linda - is your point that one #*!@-up forgives another? I know that you like absolutes but the absolute here is EVERYONE fucked up. The New Orleans Major, the Louisana governor, FEMA, the president... EVERYONE dropped the ball.
It does not matter how hard you try to shove the blame into one corner... it's like the flood waters Linda, it's spreads out across the board.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 7, 2005 07:02:37 AM new
As I've already stated, fenix, but you REFUSE to acknowledge....there will be lots of blame to be spread around.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on September 7, 2005 07:09:38 AM newEVERYONE fucked up. The New Orleans Major, the Louisana governor, FEMA, the president... EVERYONE dropped the ball....
Seems to me, officials were told and warned, more than once, the levies would not withstand a cat. five hurricane. They took their chances with peoples lives by ignoring that fact. And as reported by the Times/Picuyune that they were, in the most recent past couple of years, worrying about construction of the Tournament Players Club golf course and other such projects, really sickens me. I suppose they may have been trying to generate revenue and jobs, but how could let the levy project fall by the wayside? Knowing they're at sea level and a hurricane zone? And now when its too late, its like, did anybody have a clue here?
Yes they did. So far as I am concerned, they've been fumbling this 'ball' for too many years already.
posted on September 7, 2005 07:30:44 AM new
LindaKKK this is where you are twisted and just can't see it ....nobody thinks like you do and can feel compassion, that's the point!
"Look at the fit you're having about what you (NO, Linda , what EVERYBODY SEES) see as my lack of compassion when NO LIBERAL here has posted that those same people should have taken the opportunity to get out when they could have. To me, that's no different.
(YES, LINDA ,It's different , YOU FIRST BLAME these people, NORMAL people FIRST FEEL COMPASSION)
I'm pointing out what you guys fail to see, imo. (LINDA< WE DO NOT FAIL TO SEE YOUR TOTAL INHUMANITY)
posted on September 7, 2005 08:16:24 AM new
What you two fail to acknowledge is that our government FAILED TO UTILIZE COMMON SENSE and FAILED TO PROTECT it's citizens. You can hide behind paper work all you want but are you HONESTLY going to sit there and say that this government had no responsibiilitiy to protect it's citizens when they were screaming out for it?
It's galling to me that you believe that our goverment can and should take every step possible legal or not to protect us from an invisable threat of terorism but when it comes to a million people in real immediate and palpable danger you think that they should sit on their ass and wait?
Where do your priorities lie?
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
when NO LIBERAL here has posted that those same people should have taken the opportunity to get out when they could have. To me, that's no different. I'm pointing out what you guys fail to see, imo.