posted on August 31, 2000 10:09:08 PM
Just when I thought my life couldn't get any crazier!
We've got a real odd ball neighbor - the man actually wears full nuclear gear (in neon yellow) to mow his lawn, complete with mask & goggles and a wet towel over his head - his butt hangs over the riding lawn mower cause he has a bike seat attached to it - he has an orange traffic flag on the mower too.... He's always starting petitions about stuff no one agrees with then gets mad when we won't sign it... just an odd kind of guy.
We figured out a few nights ago that the guy is a peeping tom too. We realized that he's standing at the fence between our houses watching my husband and I take our late night swim and apparently has been doing that for some time. The fence is old and has lots of gaps, etc.
Instead of just yelling at oddball to knock it off - my husband took our eleven year old sons super soaker water gun and nailed the guy. I was soooooo embarassed - but I'll admit I thought it was well deserved.
Long story short - now oddball neighbor is telling us that he's going to sue for assault and my husband says that's fine cause we'll sue him for being a peeping tom. Oddball says yes he was watching us, but he's not a peeping tom if he's watching from his own yard. I'm not worried about the lawsuit puffery - but now I'm really wondering if he's technically (legally) not considered a peeping tom as long as he's peeping from his own property? Not to mention I can't get over this guys gall!
posted on August 31, 2000 10:12:50 PM
Call the police. They'll let you know whether he is or is not a peeping tom. It's not a civil matter, it's a criminal act.
posted on August 31, 2000 10:29:14 PM
Anyone remember that piece on 20/20 or another of the "news magazine" shows on the family who was observed electronically, in their own home, by a neighbor? The guy had had access to the house before they moved in, and had planted viewing devices and recorders everywhere, including their child's room. If I recall correctly, it turned out that what he did was not a legal offense. (I think this happened in Louisiana, but I don't know whether the Napoleonic Code was involved.) Unsettling, to say the least.
I don't think there's anything wrong with spraying down your own fence, mybiddness. It's good practice--and surface prep--for the impromptu late-night pressure-painting sessions I hope you'll be holding.
posted on August 31, 2000 10:33:21 PMKRS We discussed calling the police - I'd like to at least put a scare into him. We haven't decided yet. I've always thought of him as a harmless nut - but this was a little too wierd for me. I told my husband that the best thing to do would be to call his mom - she'll put a stop to it faster than the police I'm betting. She's one of the biggest mouths in town and would die if she knew what he did.
edited for a stray K and a missing B
[ edited by mybiddness on Aug 31, 2000 10:42 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2000 10:36:39 PM
mybiddness...thats scarey. If hes watching you swim, what else is he trying to watch? And I agree that squirting your fence down from dust is perfectly fine...you were on YOUR side, werent you, and his face just happened to be plastered in the way, eh?
posted on August 31, 2000 10:40:24 PMPareau I seem to remember that 20/20 episode but can't remember how it turned out. I hope the guy was convicted of something.
If it had been anybody else I might have freaked more - maybe I'm not taking it all seriously enough - but I think he's just a strange little nut who probably innocently wandered into a free show and decided to stay... and keep coming back.
I do love the idea of cleaning our fence... of course getting it ready to paint!
another typo
[ edited by mybiddness on Aug 31, 2000 10:43 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2000 11:13:03 PMMaui Jeffrey Dahmer??? I wish you hadn't said that... now I'm getting the creeps. I think I'm pretty good at sizing people up - but now ya done it... I'm second guessing myself.
posted on August 31, 2000 11:14:59 PM
If your neighbor was not using any extraordinary means to enable his viewing, and he was on his property, your neighbor might have a case regardless the pettiness of the act (squirt gun).
In most cases involving a matter of viewing or hearing, the victim, you and your husband in this matter, would have to prove that you have/had a "reasonable expectation" of privacy.
In that you have said, that the only thing providing you privacy is a fence that is in need of repair and has gaps, your defense of having a reasonable expectation of privacy might not be viable. Especially if your neighbor did not use a ladder, drill a hole in the fence, purposely erect an elevated device, etc.
If not, technically, and dependent on laws in your jurisdiction, your husband did commit an act of "simple battery," and he (could) be arrested and charged.
It will depend on how insistent your neighbor is and/or how skilled or motivated the officer(s) is/are in settling the matter in the field.
If someone is on their (own) property, you cannot dictate and restrict where the person can be on their (own) property, nor can you dictate and restrict what the person can look at or in what direction and what distance a person can look, excluding the use of magnification. It is your responsibity to create (real) privacy that requires extraordinary means to violate.
Yes he can sue you and you can sue him. He could win but I doubt you would. A criminal case does not prohibit a civil case, a civil case does not prohibit a criminal case.
posted on August 31, 2000 11:34:59 PM
By the same argument, an act taken by you as regards your fence, without demonstrated knowledge that your neighbor was behind it, would not be construed as any criminal act, and for that claim to be made by your neighbor he would have to admit to having been looking beyond his property by use of a flaw in the fence (which flaw, whether made by him or not, would provide the equivelant of a viewing platform) which you have erected to provide an expectation of privacy, regardless the perception of a police officer that you call. Cops ain't lawyers, as shown above.
posted on September 1, 2000 12:03:05 AM
"Especially if your neighbor did not use a ladder, drill a hole in the fence, purposely erect an elevated device, etc."
SgtMike I'm not sure about the legalities, but since we were skinny dipping, I'm betting this guy did purposely erect a previously non-elevated device. Does that count?
I'm trying to picture this guy explaining to the judge why his face was pressed so far into the crevice of the fence that he could actually get soaked enough to consider it an assualt.
I'm sleeping on it tonight, but tomorrow I just might call his momma.
Excluding your statement that (most) police officers are not lawyers, because some are, you're incorrect.
I am responding to the statement that the parties (knew) the neighbor was standing at (his) side of the fence.
A gap in a fence is not a manufactured device (extraordinary means), and definitely not a viewing platform. The fence height and gaps is (very) relevant regarding expectation of privacy. Just because a fence separates property does not mean absolute privacy existed.
Police officers do not have to be lawyers to understand probable cause to arrest and "beyond a reasonable doubt" is not required to arrest someone. The officer(s) leaves the finding of guilt to the court.
posted on September 1, 2000 12:18:31 AM"I'm betting this guy did purposely erect a previously non-elevated device" does not count if you cannot prove it. Even if he has one but it is used for legitimate means, you may have a problem.
If you can prove the neighbor was "pressing his face into a crevice of the fence," and doing so was necessary to enable his viewing, he might be eligible for a "disorderly conduct" charge (breach of peace).
If you are positive you had secure privacy, and he used extraordinary means to breach your privacy, and you were nude; I believe my story would be that I temporarily obscured his vision so both nude parties could exit the pool and retreat from his view without his being able to see all.
On the other side of the coin, you know the history of this guy, you know the condition of the fence, and you were "skinny dipping?"
If you would reenact the scene while (I) was at the fence, I could provide you a better evaluation.
posted on September 1, 2000 12:32:42 AM
Until this week, I thought our late night swims were for our pleasure only - not intended as a neighborhood peep show. Also, it was dark - that's why he had to press his face to the fence to see anything - and frankly it was dark enough that I doubt he saw much. And, we were just swimming, btw.
I'm thinking that this guy wouldn't get far with the officers in this town since his mom likes to cause trouble for them and we're long time close friends with most of them. If he ever actually tried to pursue an assault case he'd probably be shamed out of it... and rightly so.
And - I don't exit nude - I have sleeping children and a suit at the ready before I exit - just in case.
posted on September 1, 2000 12:48:06 AM
mybiddness,
It's probably a good idea to bathe suited until you've secured your privacy. Imagine pursuing a complaint against the fence licker, only to be slapped with a charge of lewd & lascivious behavior. Stranger things have happened. Also, you'd be amazed at how many people have night-vision specs, so swimming in the dark is no assurance that you can't be seen. Get your fence together, but don't quit enjoying yourselves. Maybe your sad neighbor can learn from your example.
posted on September 1, 2000 01:10:52 AM
Put dye in the super soaker and squirt the holes. The dye marks will prove his position and what part he pressed against the fence.
posted on September 1, 2000 05:58:27 AMmybiddness:
Perhaps you could purchase some cheap “hand-stitched” quilts on eBay to drape over the fence to block out the gaps and holes.
Having crappy (or “odd”) neighbors is no fun. You should be able to enjoy all of your property. I would repair the fence and take reasonable steps to secure privacy for yourselves. These issues are very difficult and sometimes painful to resolve via criminal or civil means. If he is peeping, that is usually a compulsion that is difficult to control. The first thing to do is to make it a real inconvenience for him to continue this behavior. You may even want to suspend your nighttime activities for a period of time.
And I have to agree that “odd” behavior should not be taken lightly. It can sometimes be a symptom of much greater social or behavioral problems.
posted on September 1, 2000 06:55:28 AM
Why not give him a REAL show? When you get out of the pool, face his direction and do a little shimmy or "strip tease" type dance. You could bend over and "moon" him for good measure. It might freak him out enough that he'll stop the peeping. Kind of like talking dirty to an obscene phone caller. Freaks them out so bad they hang up. If he tries to tell anyone in town about what he "saw", deny, deny, deny. Who's anyone going to believe anyway? You or the town nut?
posted on September 1, 2000 07:19:16 AM
This is a risky route. You don't know the kind of reaction you could incite. You also don't know who else is aware of the special viewing situation at your home, and who else might be playing voyeur. There are cameras that can capture very good pictures of things taking place in seeming darkness.
Protect your privacy! Let me have snowyegret's picture! !
posted on September 1, 2000 08:00:22 AMYou also don't know who else is aware of the special viewing situation at your home, and who else might be playing voyeur. There are cameras that can capture very good pictures of things taking place in seeming darkness.
uh...like the CIA? I've heard they have roving satellites that produce crystal clear images as well as those "heat generated" ones for night viewing. Just think, mybidness, your skinnydipping activities just might be in a dossier somewhere....you may have more to worry about than a peeping Tom.
posted on September 1, 2000 08:21:34 AM
Gotta love the dye idea - ironically, when I'm not selling on eBay I dye fabrics and lace for a living... probably have 50 gallons of dye around here - very handy!
KatyD I am saddened to report that the only reaction I might get from a shimmy show would be a very frightened and even more confused odd ball neighbor - Not the best show in the world though my sweet husband might argue that point.
Ironically, I wouldn't have to go far for night vision equipment - we've got a lot of that kind of stuff around for the Search team use - Maybe I should go count our inventory and make sure it's all still there.
I don't wanna quit my evening swim - it's just not as relaxing with a suit on. But, mom used to say sh*t in one hand and wish in another and see which one fills up fastest.
This guy is odd - but I've never known him to be threatening and I really think he just wandered into something - I think we were an interesting diversion (curiousity show) for him from Survivor or Brothers Watching kind of stuff.
posted on September 1, 2000 08:25:22 AM
He sounds great to me. Why do you people always want to get rid of your characters? no wonder we have so many frustrated writers on AW. As soon as a great story comes along instead of recognizing it, you want to get rid of it. So what if he likes to watch? - just give him a good show. How can you blame the poor lonely old man? You have obviously been watching him if you know his butt hangs out. Sounds to me like its okay for you to watch but not for him. Do you really think the police are going to care about this? More suburban hysteria. Sounds like the people who could care less to see a starving child on TV but go into passionate hysterics if they get spammed. Just my thoughts on the subject since You posted the thread.
posted on September 1, 2000 08:57:41 AM
JT, I have to admit, I really like your posts. You have a really dry sense of humor. I bet you did a really great job on the year book. Don't throw in the towel on being a southern belle! You can be the grande dame, the great belle diva who we all come to and plead for your advice on how to be a better belle. Take heart!
posted on September 1, 2000 09:02:21 AM
LOL...Im picturing this guy at court, dressed in a suit, with his face striped with red paint where the slats of the fence were pressed and he got zapped with dye.
"um...yer honor, I was just star gazin' and no lookin' at them a'tall".
