WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 11, 2005 09:07:36 AM
Another fine example of the mayoral leadership in N.O.
Took 3 cops to beat a 65 year old man senseless and then attack the reporter.
Over 300 quit along with the chief.
Anyone still wondering why the disaster was as bad as it was with this person in charge?
Ron
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fenix03
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posted on October 11, 2005 09:32:32 AM
Ron - why is it that you feel that individuals should not blame the govenment for their hardships but you blame a mayor for the personal actions of three city and two federal police? Seems that your creedo is that all people should take responsibility for their own actions unless of course you can blame a democrat.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 11, 2005 09:45:28 AM
That is my credo, but considering all the support shown that person after katrina, it needs to be pointed out that he is a failure on all levels.
I don't mind people placing blame, but the blame was inappropriately placed to begin with.
I don't care if he us a Democrat or Republican. I don't support the mayor of Spokane either.
Ron
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fenix03
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posted on October 11, 2005 11:24:14 AM
Could you please explain to me how it is that the violent irresponsible actions of five men, not hired by or under the employment of the major are an example of his failure?
These men broke the trust put into the by their employer and by the public, broke a basic code of conduct and broke the law and rather than calling them on their behavior you somehow decide that it is the mayors fault?
Can we assume that this means you will no longer be complaining about those that do not take responsibility for their own lives and actions or just an open acknowledgment of your hypocrisy when you do.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 11, 2005 12:44:35 PM
No hypocrisy at all.
I know the difference between ctiy, state and federal governments.
Also invidual responsibility.
People have supported Nagin in his lack of accepting any responsibity for the failure of evacuating N.O.
Who is he going to blame for his police force, is it Presiden't Bush's fault again?
Those officers are a disgrace to a uniform, but tell me who is ultimately responsible for them?
Ron
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desquirrel
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posted on October 11, 2005 02:23:08 PM
You do not blame the government unless a specific government policy causes a problem. One should be ready and able to blame an individual for failing to do the job for which he took responsibility.
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Linda_K
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posted on October 11, 2005 02:59:14 PM
I agree with Ron's statement. "it needs to be pointed out that he is a failure on all levels."
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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bigpeepa
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posted on October 11, 2005 03:05:13 PM
Police beatings and killings are happening all over the country. Once in awhile they get caught on film. The other times nobody konws or gives a dam.
Did you all see the mounted cop move his horse to block the filming. Is that called obstruction of justice or something?
If I did something like that I am sure the police would make some kind of a crime out of it for me.
In Pittsburgh the Police have killed several people in the last few years and only God knows how many they have beat. A few months ago a cop shot and killed a 12 year old kid running away from a stolen car. The kid was shot in the back.
Law and Order Pissburgh style I call it.
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fenix03
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posted on October 11, 2005 04:04:32 PM
That wasn't a few months ago Peepa - it was nearly three years ago.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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bigpeepa
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posted on October 11, 2005 06:38:46 PM
fenix, 3 years,3 months,3 days or 3 months from now doesn't change the fact this kind of beating and killings are going on everywhere in the U.S.
The only time America gets to see it is when the odd time it gets filmed.
I am sorry to say a few of the Pissburgh Police are as bad as any.
If the New Orleans beating wasn't filmed the cops would have got away with it. How about the F.B.I. guys. They didn't look like they were trying to settle the situation to me.
Sure most police are good people and we need them. But the ones we all saw beating that old man should be put in JAIL for a very long time.
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fenix03
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posted on October 11, 2005 07:53:19 PM
I don't disagree. They have been charged and lets hope that their trial has a better result for the city of New Orleans than the Rodney King trial had for Los Angeles.
BTW - I think you forgot to mention why the officer fired in the case in Pennsylvania. I think there is a big difference between five cops using fists to beat up a 65 year old man and an officer firing at a fleeing car thief immediately after hearing a gun shot and seeing his partner drop. The PA shooting was tragic but it was a tragic misunderstanding not a 3 minute beat down.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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desquirrel
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posted on October 11, 2005 11:23:40 PM
"should be put in JAIL for a very long time."
Oh please, they don't put murderers in jail for a "very long time."
You can stop clutching your chest in horror and surprise. Cops have been clobbering drunks for centuries. Few people can tolerate verbal and physical abuse from a drunk, nevermind do it every day.
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bigpeepa
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posted on October 12, 2005 04:00:55 AM
desquirrel
Well said NEOCON statement. If cops beat up drunks then Bush and his Daughters have gotten away lucky haven't they.
How about the T.V. guy the New Orleans cop pushed around he must have been drunk too?
BTW the man in New Orleans said he was not drinking.
I know a retired NYC cop who lightly ran into a stopped car one day while working. He promptly gave its driver tickets for no insurance and for backing into him.
Police justice NYC style.
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fenix03
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posted on October 12, 2005 05:40:12 AM
Desquirrel - not only does the guy state that he was not drinking but he has 25 years of sobriety. You don't exactly make that claim while standing next to a lawyer hours after being released from jail if the BAC test came up positive.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 12, 2005 06:19:49 AM
N.O. police has a history of being one of the most corrupt in the country.
But then again city government leadership is lacking.
Ron
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fenix03
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posted on October 12, 2005 09:47:03 AM
Ron - is it so impossible for you to admit that these guys are bad cops - state and federal and that the only person responsible for their actions is themselves? Why is it that you insist on everyone taking personal responsibility for their actions except for these men?
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 12, 2005 10:22:43 AM
No where have I said they were not bad cops, but by going by lefty logic that makes Nagin the blame.
Of course these fine example of police are claiming Not Guilty, which is a amusing considering it was caught on tape.
Of course we don't know what was said prior to that, but then again what excuse can there be?
Ron
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fenix03
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posted on October 12, 2005 10:28:19 AM
Ron - people ask why it is that I watch Fox so much. It's because rather than assign some random thought process that makes me feel better about my party I actually want to understand how the conservative side comes to some of the conclusions that it does. Considering the inconcievable route that you took to come to your conclusion you might want to try doing the same every once in awhile. It would probably help in avoiding such completely inaccurate conclusions.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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desquirrel
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posted on October 12, 2005 10:41:10 AM
"not only does the guy state that he was not drinking but he has 25 years of sobriety"
Yeah, I know. He just left church and was on his way to volunteer at the soup kitchen when he was pounced upon. Worse still, his injuries prevented him from completing a novena for the hurricane victims.
You could believe that or you could believe that cops stand around and decide "Hey! Let's beat HIM up today!". I just find it all a little doubtful.
No matter how many times they play the 3 min Rodney King "highlight" tape, at least in that case the other 20 minutes exist.
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 12, 2005 11:50:45 AM
Inaccurate to who? you?
You done nothing to dispel what I have said.
You cannot even point out any inaccuracies.
Ron
[ edited by WashingtoneBayer on Oct 12, 2005 11:52 AM ]
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fenix03
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posted on October 12, 2005 01:22:13 PM
You need someone to dispell a theory that it's the Mayors fault the that three state and two federal officers beat someone? And I here I thought common sense would be enough.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 12, 2005 01:48:38 PM
As I said you can't do it.
You mean the same common sense that blammed President Bush for everything?
But I can always take a civics lesson, please explain to me how you think city government works?
Ron
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fenix03
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posted on October 12, 2005 02:22:12 PM
Ron - if you actually believe this load that you have played out here - I can only say that I feel sorry for you. Thing is I don't believe anyone is honestly that stupid, and if someone is really that stupid, I just don't have the desire or patience to lead them by the hand thru the process of logical thought.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 12, 2005 04:21:49 PM
So you are unable to refute anything I have said and now have to lower yourself to a personal attack.
You need to take a close look at your understanding of how things work, you have shown you no next to nothing about city government.
It is refreshing to know that you don't know everything.
Ron
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fenix03
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posted on October 12, 2005 04:36:09 PM
I know that Mayors do not hire the police force so unless you are going to tell me that Nagan put forth a directive that beating people on the street was a good way to deter smoking that he is not responsible for the actions of individual police officers. Considering the fact that it does not seem that these officers have a previous history of this type of action it doesn't seem that it's even a hiring issue.
It is the fault of three men that had no control over themselves and no one elses.
Is it the responsibility of Nagan as the Mayor of the city to make sure that whatever steps can be put in place to avoid the hiring of law enforcement personel that are so quick to jumpo to violence? Yes. But at the same time, there is no full proof way of ensuring that never happens.
You hire human beings, you hope that they hold themselves to a standard of conduct appropriate for a law enforcement official and when they don't, you bust their hard and fast and in a very public manner to show the public and fellow officers that this type of behavior will not be stood for and eventually you turn things around. they have already enacted a new psych test, apparently dutring the last recruiting call, less than 5% of applicants passed it.
Oh - and BTW - it was only a personal attack if you take it as such. I actually said that I didn't really believe you were that stupid. Are you saying I was wrong?
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Oct 12, 2005 04:37 PM ]
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on October 12, 2005 05:04:38 PM
Even mentioning it was not necessary now was it?
Ron
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dblfugger9
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posted on October 12, 2005 05:10:27 PM
fenix, curious..were you on the force as well as in the industry?
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Linda_K
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posted on October 12, 2005 05:54:39 PM
LOL @ "Yeah, I know. He just left church and was on his way to volunteer at the soup kitchen when he was pounced upon. Worse still, his injuries prevented him from completing a novena for the hurricane victims. You could believe that or you could believe that cops stand around and decide "Hey! Let's beat HIM up today!".
LOL.....yep...sometimes that appears to be the way those who usually take the side of the 'poor victim', against the police, think.
I don't know if the cops were 'bad cops' or not....but it never ceases to amaze me at how some liberals so quickly take the 'victims' side. [ and no, fenix, I'm NOT saying you usually do - so we don't need to 'go there'.] lol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Oct 12, 2005 05:56 PM ]
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fenix03
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posted on October 12, 2005 06:38:24 PM
Linda - come on - you have clear video of them puching the guy in the head and the DA has pressed charges. They are guilty as sin. There is absolutely no need to repeatedly punch a 65 year old man in the head when he is being held by at least two other officers.
I'm curious as to why, when they brought this guy in for booking after what they KNEW was going to a problem bust (they knew it was taped and after roughing up a reporter they knew had to know it was going to be on every station in the country) that they didn't do a blood alcohol test on him. They were either complete idiots not to make sure to get justification for the arrest or they knew damn well the guy was not drunk and the last thing they wanted to do was to provide him with proof.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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bigpeepa
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posted on October 13, 2005 02:00:11 PM
Sorry Liar Linda_K. People need to take the victims side more when they get the s*it beat out of them by BAD COPS. Not all people are NEOCON LIARS like you that ALWAYS BLAME THE VICTIMS.
I get up every morning glad and proud to be a LIBERAL and not a NEOCON LIAR. YES!!!
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