MIAMI - A passenger who claimed to have a bomb in a carry-on bag was shot and killed by a federal air marshal Wednesday on a jetway to an American Airlines plane that had arrived from Colombia, officials said.
Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Doyle said the dead passenger was a 44-year-old U.S. citizen.
posted on December 7, 2005 02:25:35 PM new
Based on what I have seen so far being reported in the news, the man was mentally ill and did not have a bomb. It is a tragic event.
On the other hand, how could the Sky Marshall not do anything else but shoot the man based on the man's behavior, what he was saying and him not heeding verbal commands to stop.? If there had been a bomb, how many others would be killed or maimed?
I imagine at this point the Sky Marshall is having a lot of regrets and remorse about this incident. IMO, I think he acted accordingly to ensure the safety and well being of other passengers.
posted on December 7, 2005 02:48:08 PM new
chimpchamp,
I agree. I don't think anything else could have been done.
I'm waiting for someone to say the Sky Marshall should have winged him.
I've been reading posts about he low rating for security since 9/11. On one hand the left is complaining about the taking away of liberties and in the next breath they jump on the administration for acting to slow.
I dont think anyone can please all the people all the time.
posted on December 7, 2005 03:08:02 PM new
Sounds like Suicide by Air Marshall. Tragic but do I blame the Marshall? Nope. He did what his job tells him to do. I firmly believe in civil liberties and that many of them have been stomped all over recently I also believe that this person used his own free will to commit three seperate acts which directly led up to his death (Claiming he had a bomb, ignoring law enforcement orders, reaching into the bag he stated contained the bomb).
Just because people believe in upholding civil liberties Colin, does not mean that they do not also believe in accepting responsibility for ones own actions.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on December 7, 2005 03:44:25 PM new
"Just because people believe in upholding civil liberties Colin, does not mean that they do not also believe in accepting responsibility for ones own actions"
I believe in upholding civil liberties. What I'm saying is there will have to be trade offs if we want the security the "9/11 Report Card" is suggesting.
posted on December 7, 2005 03:50:37 PM new"Sounds like Suicide by Air Marshall"
That's what I thought too, Fenix. Anyone, post 911, who would purposely state they have a bomb would know what's coming. It's very sad for everyone but it has to be done, imo.
posted on December 7, 2005 05:17:20 PM new
Colin - I think people are complaining more about the loss of civil liberties like...
Right to a lawyer and speedy trial
Right to Privacy
Legal oversight on domestic surveillance.
I don't think many people are complaining about the loss of the right to tell someone you have a bomb on a plane and then reach for the bag you say it is in.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on December 7, 2005 06:02:05 PM new
As I was reading the article, I too thought "suicide by cop." However, it really looks like it was a case of someone who didn't take their meds and had a psychotic episode. That's tragic, but I don't really see how the air marshall could have acted differently.
And I haven't heard anyone, on the right or the left saying any different.
posted on December 7, 2005 06:15:15 PM new
"""I'm waiting for someone to say the Sky Marshall should have winged him.
I've been reading posts about he low rating for security since 9/11. On one hand the left is complaining about the taking away of liberties and in the next breath they jump on the administration for acting to slow"""
posted on December 7, 2005 07:22:57 PM new
Sad, but unavoidable.
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on December 7, 2005 11:25:33 PM new
If those are the liberties you are willing to lose, what exactly would that leave to like about this country?
posted on December 8, 2005 06:28:05 AM new
nerfballs writes:
"If those are the liberties you are willing to lose, what exactly would that leave to like about this country?"
Apparently you can't comprehend what I was stating as I can't understand what the hell your above posts is supposed to mean.
Amen,
Reverend Colin http://www.reverendcolin.com
posted on December 8, 2005 08:29:48 AM new
"""I've been reading posts about he low rating for security since 9/11. On one hand the left is complaining about the taking away of liberties and in the next breath they jump on the administration for acting to slow. """
The two chairs on the 9/11 commision who spoke last Sunday on TV about how dismally we are prepared for another disaster or terrorist attack...one was a Democrat and one was a Republican.
Taking away civil liberties IS an issue and so is using money meant for national security to air-condition garbage trucks.
But they are two seperate issues.
Giving more money for security measures to lightly populated states like Wyoming than New York receives has nothing to do with taking away civil liberties unless you connect the loss of protection of New Yorkers with the fact
that Cheney is from one of those sparsely populated states.
Let's remember how quickly bush reacted to passing a bill for Terry Schiavo...he interrupted HIS VACATION and flew to Washington......now let's compare how long it took him to notice that the most of the gulf coast was wiped out.....how long it took his buddy Brownie to pull his incompetant thumb out and do something.
posted on December 8, 2005 02:02:52 PM new
I don't think the Air Marshall had any choice, either. It's sad and it's tragic for all parties. A woman lost her husband and the Air Marshall will have to live with this for the rest of his life. Sad.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted on December 10, 2005 06:35:57 AM new Passengers Didn't Hear Alpizar Say 'Bomb'
By CURT ANDERSON Associated Press Writer
(AP) - MIAMI-The airline passenger shot to death by federal marshals who said he made a bomb threat was agitated even before boarding and later appeared to be desperate to get off the plane, some fellow travelers said.
One passenger said he "absolutely never heard the word 'bomb' at all" during the uproar as the Orlando-bound flight prepared to leave Miami on Wednesday.
Federal officials say Rigoberto Alpizar made the threat in the jetway, after running up the plane's aisle from his seat at the back of the jetliner. They opened fire because the 44-year-old Home Depot employee ignored their orders to stop, reached into his backpack and said he had a bomb, according to authorities.
Alpizar's brother, speaking from Costa Rica, said he would never believe the shooting was necessary.
"I can't conceive that the marshals wouldn't be able to overpower an unarmed, single man, especially knowing he had already cleared every security check," Carlos Alpizar told The Orlando Sentinel.
Some passengers said they noticed Alpizar while waiting to get on the plane. They said he was singing "Go Down Moses" as his wife tried to calm him. Others said they saw him having lunch and described him as restless and anxious, but not dangerous.
"The wife was telling him, 'Calm down. Let other people get on the plane. It will be all right,'" said Alan Tirpak, a passenger.
Some passengers, including John McAlhany, said they believe Alpizar was no threat to anyone.
McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker who was returning home from a fishing trip in Key West, said he was sitting in Seat 21C when he noticed a commotion a few rows back.
"I heard him saying to his wife, 'I've got to get off the plane,'" McAlhany said. "He bumped me, bumped a couple of stewardesses. He just wanted to get off the plane."
Alpizar ran up the aisle into the first-class cabin, where marshals chased him onto the jetway, McAlhany said.
McAlhany said he "absolutely never heard the word 'bomb' at all."
"The first time I heard the word 'bomb' was when I was interviewed by the FBI," McAlhany said. "They kept asking if I heard him say the B-word. And I said, 'What is the B-word?' And they were like, 'Bomb.' I said no. They said, 'Are you sure?' And I am."
Added another passenger, Mary Gardner: "I did not hear him say that he had a bomb."
Officials say there was no bomb and they found no connection to terrorism.
Witnesses said Alpizar's wife, Anne Buechner, had frantically tried to explain he was bipolar, a mental illness also known as manic-depression, and was off his medication.
The National Alliance on Mental Illness called on the Air Marshal Service and other law enforcement agencies to train officers if they don't already in responding to people with severe mental illness.
Others said Alpizar's mental health didn't matter while marshals were trying to talk to him and determine if the threat was real.
Shooting to maim or injure - rather than kill - is not an option for federal agents, said John Amat, national operations vice president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, which includes air marshals in its membership.
"The person was screaming, saying he would blow up the plane, reaching into his bag - they had to react," Amat said.
"The bottom line is, we're trained to shoot to stop the threat," said Amat, who is also a deputy with the U.S. Marshals Service in Miami. "Hollywood has this perception that we are such marksmen we can shoot an arm or leg with accuracy. We can't. These guys were in a very tense situation. In their minds they had to believe this person was an imminent threat to themselves or the people on the plane."
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the two air marshals appeared to have acted properly when they shot to kill.
Both air marshals were hired in 2002 from other federal law enforcement agencies and were placed on administrative leave, said Brian Doyle, spokesman for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
Miami-Dade Police were investigating and the medical examiner's office was performing an autopsy on Alpizar, who was from Costa Rica but became a U.S. citizen years ago. He lived in Maitland, an Orlando suburb.
Neighbors said the couple had been returning to their home from a missionary trip to Ecuador. Buechner works for the Council on Quality and Leadership based in Towson, Md., a nonprofit organization focused on improving life for people with disabilities and mental illness, the organization said in a statement.
David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, said he thinks the shooting may prove more "reassuring than disturbing" to the traveling public his organization represents. "This is a reminder they are there and are protecting the passengers and that it is a seriously deadly business," he said.
Armed police boarded the aircraft after the shooting, with some passengers in hysterics. McAlhany said he remembers having a shotgun pressed into his head by one officer, and hearing cries and screams from many passengers aboard the aircraft after the shooting in the jetway.
"This was wrong," McAlhany said. "This man should be with his family for Christmas. Now he's dead."
---Associated Press writers Andrew Bridges, Mark Sherman and Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington; Mike Schneider and Travis Reed in Orlando; and Jessica Gresko and Tim Reynolds in Miami contributed to this story.
posted on December 10, 2005 08:43:08 AM new
Helen,
You are the dumbest b#### I have ever seen. Unbelievable that you put a dumbasses democrat spin on this situation. You and mingotree have no reguards to the safety of America and clearly don't support what is proper.
The air marshall had no choice. End of story.
.
.
.
Alive in 2005
posted on December 10, 2005 02:19:02 PM new
Dear stonecold-who-changed-from-666-to-the more-correct-613,
Your hate is eating away and making you blind :
""You and mingotree have no reguards to the safety of America and clearly don't support what is proper.""
Show where my name was included in Helen's post.
Show where I have no regard for the safety of America.
For that matter show us all where this is a Democrat issue?!?!
Do you consider calling someone a "Bitsch" as civil?
posted on December 10, 2005 02:59:35 PM new
Mingo, It's not unusual for someone with stonecold's mindset and reasoning ability to label this shooting as a democratic issue and then to jump to the conclusion that we believe one way or another simply because I have posted the latest AP news article on the event.
Give the poor guy a break, mingo...his thinking apparatus is experiencing sensory overload.
posted on December 10, 2005 03:53:08 PM newThe person was screaming, saying he would blow up the plane, reaching into his bag - they had to react," Amat said.
If he was SCREAMING how come nobody heard what he said?
posted on December 10, 2005 06:18:03 PM new
My first reaction to this incident was that it was tragic but unavoidable. After all, what was the air marshall to do when faced by someone acting extremely wild and claiming to have a bomb?
After seeing news reports that other passengers and witnesses are saying they never heard the guy shouting he had a bomb, some doubt is creeping in. The marshals say that the man was yelling--repeatedly--that he had a bomb. If that was actually the case, why didn't others hear him?
But even before hearing these witness statements I also wondered, after hearing statements from the authorities that the man was behaving aggressively and erratically before boarding the plane, why he was allowed to board in the first place.
Beginning to think there was something hinky about the affair.
posted on December 10, 2005 06:23:50 PM new
Counld be a big conspiracy like the medical examiners and labs that stated that the young girl in the other thread had HIV or it could be because the passengers quoted were 21 rows back on the plane on the plane and the confrontation took place in the jetway where they would not be able to hear it.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on December 10, 2005 06:27:19 PM newThe marshals say that the man was yelling--repeatedly--that he had a bomb. If that was actually the case, why didn't others hear him?
If I understand the senario correctly, the air marshals followed him out into the skyway where they ordered him to the floor. This is when he shouted he had a bomb & reached into the bag.
If this is true, the other passengers would not have been near enough to hear anything but the loud voices of the marshalls.
"Dear Lord, if you can't make me a better man, don't worry about it. I'm having a real good time like I am.".
posted on December 10, 2005 06:33:00 PM new
I sincerely hope that that is the case, Bear. I am sure further investigation will bring the whole truth to light one way or the other.
____________________
posted on December 11, 2005 08:41:50 AM new
Being in the plane and in the jetway, there is no way people inside could of heard anything, probably not even the gunshots.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on December 11, 2005 11:26:20 AM new
Jet ways are under constant audio and video surveillance. If the man claimed to have a bomb and reached into his bag the video tape of the activity in the jet way should indicate this.
The lack of any video release would be indicitive of a panic reaction on the part of the sky marshall.
posted on December 12, 2005 03:30:55 PM new
Sky Marshals do not "panic". They are drawn from the top members of Federal enforcement agencies and among other things must be the absolute top in firearm use.
Like one reporter said "If you yell 'I have a bomb' in an airport, you sign your own death warrant."
posted on December 12, 2005 04:00:32 PM new "Like one reporter said "If you yell 'I have a bomb' in an airport, you sign your own death warrant."
Very true. I don't believe that a real suicide bomber would announce that he was trying to detonate a bomb or that he had one. Suicide bombers don't want to risk being shot before they can successfully detonate their weapon.
: