posted on December 11, 2005 09:13:35 AM
"For when we come home, either standing or dead,
To know you remember we fought and we bled.
Is payment enough, and with that we will trust,
That we mattered to you as you mattered to us."
posted on December 12, 2005 05:43:37 AM "And the master military strategist pipes in with her understanding of "Duty, Honor, Country"."
Wow! I see that you've learned how to use spell check. Now, you can work on communicating a meaningful thought.
You might begin by telling us how the lives lost in Iraq or Vietnam were not lost in vain. Can you really justify such a loss or will you just answer with the standard, "war is war" response or "they knew what they were doing when they signed up" response and then go find a pathetic poem like this one in an attempt to show some emotion at Christmas.
posted on December 12, 2005 05:49:35 AM
The war in Iraq is justified by the fact these people are getting to vote for the 2nd time in more that 30 years and will have a chance to participate in a democratic society.
Bear you should of known that someone who knows little or nothing about serving their country would chime in with a chickenshit response.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on December 12, 2005 06:32:03 AM "Bear you should of known that someone who knows little or nothing about serving their country would chime in with a chickenshit response."
So you "chime in" with yet another standard and illogical response that I neglected to mention --- that someone must have served in the military in order to comment. That qualification that you impose because you have nothing really worth saying, would leave many who engineered the Iraq battle out of the loop.
When efforts to impose "democracy" in Iraq only produces more violence and insecurity, Iraqis will reject it just as they now reject our occupation of their country.
posted on December 12, 2005 07:02:28 AM
Your opinion like my #*!@ stinks. You just jumped on Pii for posting his comments and then you turn around and do the same thing. Talk about a hypocrite.
In your opinion you don't see the good in Iraq, well there are half empty people all over this world you seem to be one of them, I see the good that has been done and is actually being done. The only Iraqis that want us out right now are insurgents. But then again with what Dean had to say and Kerry had to say the insurgents must be smiling.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
[ edited by WashingtoneBayer on Dec 12, 2005 07:35 AM ]
posted on December 12, 2005 07:34:52 AM "As if you know what it takes to place your life on the line for your country Hellen."
Neither your President nor many of his associates ever placed their "lives on the line" but they don't hesitate to recruit others to do so. Poor guys who don't have a job, for example are only fodder for the real "evil doers" who engineer wars justified by lies to the people of this country and the world.
Poobear, go back to your area of expertise...copy paste text from worldnetdaily and an occasional display of an obscene photo of Santa Claus.
posted on December 12, 2005 07:48:11 AM
Ron - don't you think it's strange that every four months there is a new justification for the war? This country was not told that they would be spending hundreds of billions of dollars to instill democracy... we were told it weas to remove a direct threat of weapons of mass destruction. But..ooops.. those were not founsd so then it was to remove an evil dictator from power.... but then we caught him... then it was fight the war against terror ... but that doesn't sell well when the leaders of terror groups we are fighting keep sending messages from Afghanistan so then it is to bring democracy to the country.
Copme on Ron - we all know the real reason for this war... this as a war that was a glimmer in the eye of bush even as he campaigned, afterall, Saddam tried to kill his father. Maybe some good things are coming from it but damnnit could we please be honest about why we really went and stop lying to ourselves.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on December 12, 2005 09:10:27 AM
As I have said MANY times in the past, the major reason for THIS war was to establish an American military foothold in the Mid East not subject to the whims of some profligate sheik trying to stay on top. Installing a democratic regime and cutting off a support source for world terror were just side benefits.
You people better figure out pretty fast that this region is going to blow soon. With the daily Iranian "death to Israel" crap coming from their government and attempts to build nukes by a country that would send 25000 mostly unarmed men against an Iraqi defensive position, the only question is whether it is a "pop" or a "bang". Israel is acquiring long range aircraft and retrofitting existing bombers. The Russians are proxying this because being commodity rich, they gain tremendously when the western economies are damaged.
The left is responsible for getting a lot more people killed, and that fact doesn't change even with self-definitions of "patriot".
posted on December 12, 2005 09:30:33 AM
Des - Get real. Israel does not need "long range aircraft" engage in a war with Iran. They have it, have had it for decades but all they would need to drop a bomb on Israel is a Cesna.
I realize you take special joy in spinning the anti arab conspiracies but you seem to have a habit of ignoring history. Iran has all the money and resources they need to purchase nuclear weapons if that is their wish. they don't actually need to build their own.
They have been saying the area is ready to blow for decades because politicians can use the threat for political milage but the arab pennisula is not going to break out into the type of war you so love to predict for the same reason that the US and USSR never went at each other. Mutually Assured Destruction. The first country in the area to aquire nuclear weaponry was Isreal. Iran is not going to nuke Israel because they know Isreal will not hesitate to nuke the hell out of them. Afterall, the "death to Isreal" calls have become coming since ... oh... 1947?
What I don't understand is where it is that you reached to pull this theory that a conflict that dates backs over a thousand years is somehow the fault of the left. That one is an award winning reach.
Oh yeah... and we have had a number of footholds in the region for awhile now. We have bases in saudi Arabia, in Turkey, Qatar, Bahrain, Egypt....
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Dec 12, 2005 09:32 AM ]
posted on December 12, 2005 09:36:26 AM
Fenix, I no longer care about the reason we are there, just that we finish it. We are there and nothing can change that. Hearing remarks from the likes of Dean and Kerry (no wonder he didn't get elected) do not makes things better.
Does provide great aid and comfort to the insurgents though.
On the other hand I don't believe a timeline for withdrawl would benefit the insurgents, but would make the Iraqis a stronger people. If they wanted us out so bad, the government would be asking for us to leave.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on December 12, 2005 09:43:39 AM
Ron - they did ask us to leave, or at least for a time table. We got the leaders of each of the poltical groups together in Egypt and one of the things that cam out of it was a request for a timetable for withdrawal.
I agree that this "it will aid the insurgents" crap really is crap. Everytime the Iraqia have been given a dealine they have met it or at least effectively dealt with it. Why do we not believe that if we said.. "Get your act together by this date and we are out of here" that they would not do it.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Dec 12, 2005 09:44 AM ]
posted on December 12, 2005 10:03:47 AM
Their government has not asked us to leave. Only people who think they have some sort of power there. When the Official Iraqi government asks us to leave we should do so. But until that time we are obligated to stay.
Crap is your word not mine. It's crap that those people would even say something like that.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on December 12, 2005 10:07:40 AM
"Get real. Israel does not need "long range aircraft" engage in a war with Iran. They have it, have had it for decades"
You REALLY, REALLY, don't know what you're talking about.
posted on December 12, 2005 10:19:08 AM
hmmmm.... think you might be mistaken there but don't take my word for it. Here is some quickie info on the Isreali Airforce.. considered one of the best in the world.
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The mainstays of the combat element of 524 aircraft were of four types: the F-16 multirole tactical fighter, the first of which became operational in Israel in 1980; the larger and heavier F-15 fighter designed to maintain air superiority, first delivered in 1976; the F-4 Phantom, a two-seater fighter and attack aircraft, delivered to Israel between 1969 and 1977; and the Kfir, an Israeli-manufactured fighter plane first delivered to the air force in 1975, and based on the French-designed Mirage III. The air force also kept in service as a reserve older A-4 Skyhawks first acquired in 1966. All of these models were expected to be retained in the inventory into the next century, although the Skyhawks would be used primarily for training and as auxiliary aircraft.
Israel's project to design and build a second-generation indigenous jet fighter, the Lavi (lion cub), was cancelled in 1987 because of expense. Instead, Israel was to take delivery of seventy-five advanced F-16C and F-16D fighters produced in the United States. In July 1999 the Prime Minister and Minister of Defense, Ehud Barak, chose to purchase the F-16I s, to modernize the IAF. In a parallel development, all the IAF long-range F-15I planes purchased in 1998, have already entered service. Israel at first ordered 21 of the F-15I aircraft, and later increased its order to 25.
The air force inventory also included a large number of electronic countermeasure and airborne early warning aircraft, cargo transports and utility aircraft, trainers, and helicopters. Attack helicopters such as the AH-64 Apache, Hughes Defender and AH-1 Cobra add a new dimension to the land battle. Sikorsky and Bell helicopters transport troops and equipment while performing assault, medevac and rescue missions in both war and peace. The IAF is interested in acquiring squadrons of 24 Apache Long-Bow combat helicopters - double the number originally planned. In the context of the deal, existing IAF Apaches will be upgraded to include the advanced Long-Bow elements including radar and missile systems. The transport fleet includes the Boeing 707 and Hercules C-130 aircraft as well as the locally produced Arava short take off and landing (STOL) transport. Boeing 707s had been converted for in-flight refueling of F-15s and F-16s.
Israeli air force commanders pointed out that the ratio of combat aircraft available to Israel and the total of all Arab air forces, including Egypt and Libya, was on the order of 1:4 in 1987. Nevertheless, Israel's superior maintenance standards and higher pilot-to-aircraft ratio meant that it could fly more sorties per aircraft per day. Israel also enjoyed an advantage in precision weapons delivery systems and in its ability to suppress Arab air defense missile systems.
With little expansion of the air force contemplated, emphasis was placed on motivating and training pilots and relying on versatile, high performance aircraft. The Israeli air force repeatedly demonstrated its superior combat performance. During the June 1967 War, waves of successive bombings of Egyptian and Syrian airfields caused tremendous damage. The Arab air forces lost 469 aircraft, nearly 400 of them on the ground. Only forty-six Israeli planes were destroyed. The October 1973 War was marked by a large number of dogfights in which the Israelis prevailed, claiming the destruction of 227 enemy airplanes at a cost of 15 Israeli aircraft. On the other hand, sixty Israeli airplanes were lost in missions in support of ground forces. In the Lebanon fighting in 1982, Israeli airplanes destroyed most of the Syrian missile sites in the Biqa Valley. The Israeli air force also dominated the air battle, bringing down ninety Syrian aircraft without a loss.
The air force had demonstrated its ability to bring Israel's military power to bear at distant points and in unconventional operations. In 1976 its transport aircraft ferried troops to the Entebbe airport in Uganda to rescue passengers on a commercial airplane hijacked by Arab terrorists. In June 1981, F-16 fighter-bombers destroyed the Osiraq (Osiris-Iraq) nuclear research reactor near Baghdad, Iraq, flying at low levels over Saudi Arabian and Iraqi territory to evade radar detection. In 1985, Israeli F-15s refueled in flight and bombed the headquarters of the PLO near Tunis, Tunisia, at a distance of more than 2,000 kilometers from their bases.
FAR Technologies developed an implementation for adapting existing fuel tanks to be carried on weapon stations. The installation of fuel lines flows fuel from the outboard weapon stations (3 and 7 on the F-16) to fuel tanks pylons, (stations 4 and 6 on the F-16). IAI/Lahav is working on the necessary adaptations for Israeli F-16s. The installation, which can be applied in only two hours, enable the F-16 to carry a total to five external fuel tanks, adding 25% to the mission radius on attack missions. Israel's IMI offers a higher capacity 600 Gallon external fuel tanksfor the F16, which can replace the 370 gallon tanks.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on December 12, 2005 02:44:05 PMcopy paste text from worldnetdaily and an occasional display of an obscene photo of Santa Claus.
Apparently your objection to C & P's is highly selective. Have yet to see object to any posted from your anti war, anti American, anti troop mindset, defeatist kind.
And you objection to the Santa pic is also obvious. Is it the fact you really think that is was Santa or that he only comes down your chimney once a year.
And again your thought that Pres Bush has no military experience is as usual, wrong. True he never saw "action", he does have more experience in military matters than YOU do, plus he has military experts to rely on.
"Dear Lord, if you can't make me a better man, don't worry about it. I'm having a real good time like I am.".
posted on December 13, 2005 07:30:57 AM
"think you might be mistaken there but don't take my word for it"
Taking a fighter, removing half of its armaments to install fuel tanks, etc. is not a solution in fighting a war. You do that if you need to reach out and attack a specific target far away, like a Hamas HQ.
The industry press has been talking about Israeli orders for true extended range versions of fighter bombers and medium bombers for some time.
If the lefties see the only problem in the Middle East to be the US, the Israelis don't seem to agree, and I wouldn't want to be the country the Israelis perceive as a threat.
The region is going to blow, and when it does, those men and women over there will perform a greater service for their country than any others since WWII.
posted on December 13, 2005 08:16:08 AM
The Christmas Poem is beautiful, bear. And so descriptive of what's going on/gone on behind the scene while we live our lives....they are always there - sacrificing for the good of all. God Bless Our Service Men and Women, past, present and future.
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But then again with what Dean had to say and Kerry had to say the insurgents must be smiling.
Pretty darn sad - but once again, just goes to show how the leaders of the democratic party just don't 'get' the concept of defending/protecting America. To them, we're the problem.
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Apparently your objection to C & P's is highly selective. Have yet to see object to any posted from your anti war, anti American, anti troop mindset, defeatist kind.
And we never will either.
I know by now, everyone except the most dense have noticed that truth.
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If the lefties see the only problem in the Middle East to be the US, the Israelis don't seem to agree,
IF??? LOL Imo, most ultra-liberals appear to think we're ALWAYS the problem....the ONLY problem.
...and I wouldn't want to be the country the Israelis perceive as a threat.
The region is going to blow, and when it does, those men and women over there will perform a greater service for their country than any others since WWII. Amen.
Heard that we now have approx. 90 bases in Iraq. 40 of which we've turned over to the Iraqi military. It's a good beginning.
