posted on December 14, 2005 04:11:55 PM new
This is for you Linda.
I believe in God. I believe God is energy/life.
I don't believe God is a man that sits in the sky controlling everyone.
I don't believe that organized religion is good or we would have seen signs by now that it works.
I don't believe that praying to God changes anything, but I believe praying brings about changes in yourself so you can get closer to what you need help with.
I don't believe in people, including politicians, that claim to be religious yet are surprisingly hypocritical when their choices are the opposite of what's taught in the Bible.
I don't believe God is impressed by new cars and fancy houses when there are starving and diseased people in the world.
I believe God lives in your heart, and the way you live your life and what you give of yourself determines how close you are to God, not what you say you do.
I don't believe God is responsible for death, accidents, disease, bad eye sight, etc., just as I don't believe God is responsible for births.
What can God do for you that you can't do yourself? That's a question I've asked Linda to answer for years and I'm still waiting.
posted on December 14, 2005 05:12:13 PM new"KD - Said: I don't believe that praying to God changes anything, but I believe praying brings about changes in yourself so you can get closer to what you need help with."
"So IF you don't believe praying to God changes anything....why in the world would you start a thread for your ailing FIL titled PRAYERS?????????"
Linda, I started this thread to explain myself. Why do you keep wanting to post on the other thread?
Linda, my answer is in the post you quoted. I said "but I believe praying brings about changes in yourself so you can get closer to what you need help with"
Praying, to me, isn't a request to God to change things. It's like holding hands with your friends and asking for support. Getting support makes you feel stronger. Giving support makes you feel good about yourself. That's what praying does and that kind of positive thinking only makes things better. Also, I personally don't whine to God about things because he's already given me what I need to get through life.
Now, maybe you can answer my question Linda. What can God do for you that you can't do for yourself?
First I have to say, I'm sorry there were some who took a thread that was supposed to be "thoughtful" and turned it into something ugly. It was uncalled for. Combatant.
What you believe is a personal issue and no one has the right to belittle or berate you for your beliefs. Having said that, IMO, you don't owe any of them any explanation.
Cheryl
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted on December 14, 2005 05:18:57 PM new
[i]because he's
already given me what I need to get through life... [/i]
who is he?? and where is he?
Shouldn't it be: I personally dont whine to "it"? This energy life force inside yourself that only needs a hand-holding now and again?
If "he" has already given you everything -- why are asking what he needs to do for you? By your own admission, he has already 'given' you everything you need.
You contradict yourself at every turn, kraft.
And your ponderments about God are very silly for a supposed adult.
posted on December 14, 2005 05:30:16 PM new
First, I will preface this by stating I haven't looked at the other thread, and don't even want to know.
But back to THIS thread's OP.
"I believe in God. I believe God is energy/life."
The rest of the OP is useless information since the very first statement is a fallacy.
Energy/Life is Energy/Life. God is God. The two are not equal. God, by definition, is an external being or force. How he effects things is up for debate, but God is not Life. God is not Love. God is not good works. God is not compassion. God may approve of and support these things, but these things are not Him. God MUST be an external force.
I have to agree that God isn't impressed by hypocritical politicians or new cars. But all the other points are easily debunkable.
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on December 14, 2005 05:37:33 PM new
I don't believe that when it comes to God and religion, anyone has the right to tell someone else what they believe is wrong. That is, of course, unless you happen to personally know God. I think that leaves all of us out.
Cheryl
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted on December 14, 2005 05:41:16 PM new
oh get off of it binnaca. One commonly uses the terms of society with the exception of when one adamantly refutes them, as kraft has done on the pages of this site over and over again.
and yes it is childish in my opinion, if you want to know about God..go to a source that can adequately educate you.
I guess you haven't heard the Three things you dont talk about because it will inevitably lead to argument? Religion Politics..I'll be damn*ed whats the third- death? Well, most here like the political one force an arguement. Kraft likes the religious one to get her kibbles and bits bobbling and everybody knows it. (isnt that right, krafty? )
posted on December 14, 2005 05:46:43 PM new
But, Replay, you are describing your belief, not KDs. Seems to me hers is just as valid as yours--but then both of you are believing in fairy tales, from my POV.
You say that her points are easily debunkable...but actually, they aren't.
You can't prove that a being is sitting in the sky controlling everyone.
You can't prove that praying to God changes anything, nor can you disprove her belief that praying brings about changes in oneself that give the "help" required.
You can't prove that "god" isn't manifested in the believer's heart, and expressed through the way a life is lived instead of through the believer's words.
You can't prove that any god is responsible for death, accidents, disease, bad eye sight, etc. Or that he/she/it is responsible for births for that matter.
You can't prove any of it, one way or the other because the concept of a god is subjective. A god can have whatever attributes the "believers" wish to believe in.
But I do find it amusing that you, as a professed believer, have the temerity to state categorically what a god absolutely thinks and must believe or be.
____________________
posted on December 14, 2005 05:56:19 PM new oh get off of it binnaca. One commonly uses the terms of society with the exception of when one adamantly refutes them, as kraft has done on the pages of this site over and over again.
That simply isn't so. For example, a common curse in our society, when one is angry or hurt is to say "god damn it!" Or, for example, "Jesus Christ!" We all grow up hearing things like that used in times of anger or stress. And we use them because we have grown up hearing them. They don't even have a religious meaning anymore when used that way.
If the Greek pantheon was commonly worshipped and I'd grown up hearing people blurt out "Zeus damn you," I'd use that as an exlamation.
That's just the way things work, whether you like it or not.
____________________
posted on December 14, 2005 06:03:48 PM newPraying, to me, isn't a request to God to change things.
You might want to look up the actual meaning of the word "prayer" in a dictionary.
THERE you will find not your 'description' of what prayer is to you, but rather the one all those who actually 'pray' to their God and just who they are praying to. It's not to themselves or a rock...it's to their God, a God they actually believe in.....or a diety.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 14, 2005 06:08 PM ]
posted on December 14, 2005 06:09:23 PM new
Linda, I could care less what the real meaning of the word prayer is. Sometimes I pray they have the kind of candy I like at the General Store. Sometimes I pray for people in Africa. Sometimes I pray my next door neighbour doesn't come over. I'm not praying to God for these things.
posted on December 14, 2005 06:14:21 PM new
Oh I totally understand that part, KD. You've long been clear on those issues.
That's why I find it so extremely funny when you say you believe in God....but when asked to describe that you give no God known to man....just your own idea about some 'made up' enity.
Like your own little cult you've made up in your own head.
Go for it....even if your 'God' is a rock.....I don't really care. I do care very much with you continue to mock those who truly believe in a God.
posted on December 14, 2005 06:18:30 PM new
[its simply not so!]
oh, the world according to bunnocalula.
You could walk up to a person of jewish faith and say merry christmas...they might awkwardly mumble it back to you, more than likely they will say same to you, or happy holidays, but they wont refer to Christmas without any self-consciouness of knowing that is outside them and not what they believe in. Its the same thing here. But kraft doesnt know what she thinks and is totally confused on the subject.
If I believed something was an energy, I would not harken back to refer to "it" as a him.
The fact that you are an atheist and say god*damn it or jesus christ is quite befitting because those words mean nothing to you and are only so oft repeated saying. But when you are stating your belief in the Existance of a God - as an "energy life force" and not a image from which man is made, calling 'it' a 'him' is like calling a dog a cat because other people call it a cat, so you want to make sure they know what youre talking about even though you emphatically deny you think its a cat. That doesnt make sense and thats not what kraft did here. Letting loose an exclamation when you stub your toe is not your detailed creedo on who or what God is like kraft has laid out above.
.
posted on December 14, 2005 07:07:46 PM new
Bunnicula, said:
"But, Replay, you are describing your belief, not KDs. Seems to me hers is just as valid as yours"
Assuming for a minute that there really is a God we cannot BOTH be right.
Actually, if there IS a God in the sense of an intelligent creator (or whatever definition you like), then my belief would have to be more correct that KD's, since her "definition" states that God isn't a "being" at all.
Bottom line is that there are two possibilities in this argument:
A) If I'm right about there being a God "being", then He's not going to be impressed by KD's argument. She may pay a price for that belief someday.
B) If KD is right about God only being a synonym for "life", then it's never going to matter one way or the other to either of us.
It only seems sensible to believe in the only choice that actually can make a difference.
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on December 14, 2005 07:27:56 PM new
Wanting her to think like I do has nothing to do with it.
Either you think God is in the likeness and image of man, or you think it is a moleculur energy force. If you havent made up your mind on that basic idea of this God of yours is yet, youre still pretty confused even about your own concept. But it's a make-it up as you go plan, I'm sure ...
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Dec 14, 2005 07:28 PM ]
posted on December 14, 2005 07:36:39 PM new
Like others have pointed out, isn't God what you imagine based on what you've been taught? If God is everything, why can't he be unique to each person?
Double, you are making a fool of yourself by going on about the word "he", "him", etc. Instead of calling God a Universal Energy, which is my belief, I call it a he. Big deal.
posted on December 14, 2005 07:41:28 PM new
No, kraft, YOURE the fool.
You think God is something you can turn on when you want to, and turn off when you dont need it. Some disposable energy you can source.
You dont know ONE FLIPPen thing about God or UNIVERSAL ENERGY!! Get away from me with your foolishness. I could slap you silly out into the heavens with what I know about it but instead I will leave you in your blissful stupid ignorance.
.
posted on December 14, 2005 07:44:11 PM new
I'm still waiting for an answer to my question, so i'll ask it again. Can someone, anyone accurately explain to me what God is?
posted on December 14, 2005 07:46:55 PM new"You think God is something you can turn on when you want to, and turn off when you dont need it. Some disposable energy you can source."
Huh? Where on earth did you get that from? I've never said anything like that ever.
"I could slap you silly out into the heavens with what I know about it"
posted on December 14, 2005 07:58:04 PM new
You dont have to say it. You demonstrate it with all these bubble head threads and your mock replies when somebody tells you their "standard" god plan that you reject.
It's not be a contest, but you know what? When I want to know the latest gossip on the vanderbilts, or anybody else, I'll consult your expertise, ok? If you'd like to toy and question religion/God, you might want to do it with someone whose house does not contain three full bookcases on the subject, because I can definitely tell you, your concepts are foggy at best.
posted on December 14, 2005 08:08:41 PM new
Pi, God is a man with a long beard, sandals and cloaks... like a wizard. He sits on a throne in heaven and doles out commands while waiting for his sheep to stroke his ego 50 million times a day. He is the most powerful wizard going and to prove that, he left the world... a book written by ghost writers. He loves judging people - he's probably judging you right now, Pi. If you're lucky, you'll accumulate enough points to get to see him in heaven, but if not, you'll burn in a vat of molten rock for eternity.
posted on December 14, 2005 08:20:23 PM newPi, God is a man with a long beard, sandals and cloaks... like a wizard. He sits on a throne in heaven and doles out commands while waiting for his sheep to stroke his ego 50 million times a day. He is the most powerful wizard going and to prove that, he left the world... a book written by ghost writers. He loves judging people - he's probably judging you right now, Pi. If you're lucky, you'll accumulate enough points to get to see him in heaven, but if not, you'll burn in a vat of molten rock for eternity.
And there it is. ba-dadum-dum-dump-da!
No, pi. Let me tell you who and what God is.
God is in you when your a good girl and he likes when youre a bad girl, too. He loves you so much, that from his throne, he is sending you an entire stainless steel kitchen so you can complain about the benz of a religious leader.
Since I'm sure you've never been a member of a church, you just know for him, thats not what works. In order to be blessed by him in good health, you have to eat tofu sprouts and do twenty leg lifts a day. If you get roids from sittin on the computer all day, and thats all you want to discuss, thats your own fault..roids are out of his realm of control...even though he is the wizard that controls everything.
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