posted on March 2, 2007 01:45:27 PM
I have long stated that my personal opinion of hillary is that she holds many communist ideals.
I have also said I felt bill was a liberal....but went more to the 'center' to get elected. But I've never seen him as far left as I've seen old hillary.
I have also often mentioned that she interned for a group of communist lawyers while she was going through law school. And that's verifiable FACT.
Now we have this....a little insight into hillarys college days - and her thesis.
Learn about how hillary was influenced by this man....and learn the connection that OBAMA also had with this man....a far left radical, to say the least.
I question what she has to HIDE by fixing it so this wasn't available to the general public before.
But, at least it is now. Take the time to read it BEFORE you decide you'd like to see her as our next CIC. Also read about her internship with the communist lawyers.
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
Ann Coulter
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 2, 2007 01:47 PM ]
posted on March 2, 2007 01:52:42 PM
I think it's ironic that she thought the thesis was still hidden away from public view, (like she had it done when she was co-president).
So now she's OUT of the closet.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on March 2, 2007 01:54:21 PM
I'll be posting a few snips from the article.
'Alinsky's daughter'
Many authors on the long shelf of unsympathetic Clinton biographies have envisioned the thesis as evidence of Marxist or socialist views held by young Hillary - or conversely as proof of her political agnosticism, a lack of any ideology besides a brutal willingness to attack opponents and accumulate power in the Alinsky style.
David Brock, in his 1996 biography, "The Seduction of Hillary Rodham," called her "Alinsky's daughter."
Newscom
The late Barbara Olson, author of "Hell to Pay"
Barbara Olson, the conservative lawyer and commentator, used an Alinsky quote to open every chapter of her 1999 book, "Hell to Pay: The Unfolding Story of Hillary Rodham Clinton."
Olson, who died in the Sept. 11 terror attacks, had charged in her book that the thesis was locked away because Clinton "does not want the American people to know the extent to which she internalized and assimilated the beliefs and methods of Saul Alinsky."
======
Although some Clinton biographers have been quick to label Alinsky a communist, he maintained that he never joined the Communist Party. "I've never joined any organization - not even the ones I've organized myself," he said in a 1972 interview with Playboy magazine. He said he was happy to work with anyone - the Roman Catholic Church, black Protestants, the communists - whoever would invite him into a neighborhood.
Looking back at the 1930s, he said, "Anybody who tells you he was active in progressive causes in those days and never worked with the Reds is a goddamn liar."
"Their platform stood for all the right things, and unlike many liberals, they were willing to put their bodies on the line."
=====
'[b]A man of exceptional charm'
Rodham's thesis describes[/b] trying to pin him down on his personal philosophy:
"Alinsky, cringing at the use of labels, ruefully admitted that he might be called an existentialist," she wrote.
Rodham tried to ask him about his moral relativism - particular ends, he said, often do justify the means - but Alinsky would only concede that "idealism can parallel self-interest."
===========
[b]ALINSKY's RULES FOR RADICALS[b]
"Personalize it"Saul Alinsky's rules of power tactics, excerpted from his 1971 book "Rules for Radicals: A Practical Primer for Realistic Radicals"
1. Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
2. Never go outside the experience of your people.
3. Whenever possible go outside the experience of the enemy.
4. Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.
5. Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.
6. A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.
7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
8. Keep the pressure on.
9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.
10. Maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside.
12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
In her paper, she accepted Alinsky's view that the problem of the poor isn't so much a lack of money as a lack of power, as well as his view of federal anti-poverty programs as ineffective.
(To Alinsky, the War on Poverty was a "prize piece of political pornography," even though some of its funds flowed through his organizations.)
"A cycle of dependency has been created," she wrote, "which ensnares its victims into resignation and apathy."
============
"I agreed with some of Alinsky's ideas," she explained in "Living History," her 2003 biography, "particularly the value of empowering people to help themselves. But we had a fundamental disagreement. He believed you could change the system only from the outside. I didn't."
A decade later, another political science major started out on the path that Hillary Rodham had rejected, going to work for a group in the Alinsky mold.
That was Barack Obama, now a U.S. senator from Illinois and her leading opponent for the Democratic nomination.
After attending Columbia University, he worked as an organizer on the South Side of Chicago for the Developing Communities Project.
Obama and others of the post-Alinsky generation described their work in the 1990 book "After Alinsky: Community Organizing in Illinois," in which Obama wrote that he longed for ways to close the gap between community organizing and national politics.
After three years of organizing, he turned to Harvard Law School and then the Illinois legislature.
==========
As news organizations are beginning their "scrubbing" of the 2008 candidates, and campaigns are digging for every scrap to use to their advantage, there is disagreement on what value should be placed on youthful writings.
====
Can a college research paper really be the Rosetta Stone to deciphering a candidate's politics or character?
=========
"It's a moronic statement," said Hillary Rodham's thesis adviser, Alan Schechter, now an emeritus professor at Wellesley, as well as a friend and campaign contributor to Sen. Clinton.
"The notion that a 21-year-old idealist somehow remains a 21-year-old idealist their whole life - she's not a radical at all.
=========
That doesn't mean, said the professor of political science, that we won't see an Alinsky-Clinton attack ad. One can envision black-and-white photos of Hillary Clinton and Saul Alinsky, wearing remarkably similar Coke-bottle glasses, while the words scroll by: "radical ... socialist? ... exceptional charm ... sealed in the archives...."
=========
Lacivita co-produced the "Swift Boat" ads =======
[Lacivita] told MSNBC.com that no fact from a candidate's life is too old for negative advertising.
"I think the last election cycle proved that there's no statute of limitations," said the Republican political consultant.
"What someone did or said 35 years ago is certainly fair game, especially if you're running for president of the United States."
===========
He began to brainstorm what such an ad might look like:
"You have to make it relevant to world events today.
"Maybe you look at the contrast. What year did Hillary write this paper? 1969.
"And where was John McCain in 1969? A POW in Vietnam."
posted on March 2, 2007 02:35:21 PM
Some hillary supporters question whether what positions she held then are still relevant now.
I believe they are. And one reason is I was a young adult during the VN war - a supporter of the war - angry the anti-war left forced our DEFEAT.
Bear and Classic served our nation during those years.
I think whatever conclusions we DREW during or about those times....we still hold. So, yes, I believe so does hillary.
Her college thesis, her interning for communist lawyers...and her continuing progressive/socialist positions - maybe even her support of Marxist ideals - stands to this day.
I don't think in that way she's NOR KERRY are any different that we are. Many of our 'life views' are/were formed during those times....and have remained our positions today.
I don't believe hillary's any different in that way.
posted on March 2, 2007 04:29:57 PM
"""I don't think in that way she's NOR KERRY are any different that we are. Many of our 'life views' are/were formed during those times....and have remained our positions today.
I don't believe hillary's any different in that way."""
That's where you're really wrong , oh "educated one who believes everything the Communists say" .
See, normal people, which you are not, learn, evolve, investigate, read, change their minds, mature, learn new things.....all that has never happened to you, linduh....that's why I call you linDUH....you're like bushit, no intellectual curiosity, no intellect, no growing, thinking ...you have lived in an airless vacuum all your life, never read a book with big words, never advanced in learning.....hence, your incredibly stupid posts....
Now, let's discuss the "hot" stuff like how Hillary hides silverware in her coat and maybe she has BAD PEOPLE in her ancestry......
Or, for a BIG change you could tell us about what great attributes the Republican candidates have
posted on March 2, 2007 04:38:35 PM
Fourth Reich?
The Bush-Rove-Schwarzenegger Nazi Nexus
By BOB FITRAKIS and HARVEY WASSERMAN
George W. Bush's grandfather helped finance the Nazi Party. Karl Rove's grandfather allegedly helped run the Nazi Party, and helped build the Birkenau Death Camp. Arnold Schwarzenegger's Austrian father volunteered for the infamous Nazi SA and became a ranking officer.
Together, they have destabilized California and are on the brink of bringing it a new Reich. With the Schwarzenegger candidacy they have laid siege to America's largest state, lining it up for the 2004 election.
The Bush family ties to the Nazi party are well known. In their 1994 Secret War Against the Jews, Mark Aarons and John Loftus use official US documents to establish that George Herbert Walker, George W. Bush's maternal great-grandfather, was one of Hitler's most important early backers. He funneled money to the rising young fascist through the Union Banking Corporation.
In 1926, Walker arranged to have his new son-in-law, Prescott Bush---father of President George Bush I, grandfather of George Bush II---hired as Vice President at W.A. Harriman and Company. Prescott became a senior partner when Harriman merged with a British-American investment company to become Brown Brothers Harriman. In 1934 Prescott Bush joined the Board of Directors of Union Banking.
The bank helped Hitler rise to power. It also helped him wage war. As late as July 31, 1941---well after the Nazi invasion of Poland---the U.S. government froze $3 million in Union Banking assets linked to Fritz Thyssen. Thyssen was noted in the American press as a "German industrialist and original backer of Adolph Hitler."
Loftus writes that Thyssen's "American friends in New York Cityâ¤|[were] Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker, the father and father-in-law of a future President of the United States." That would be the current president's father, George Herbert Walker Bush, also the former CIA director.
On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi Germany's banking operations in New York City, which were under the direction of Prescott Bush. The government seized control of Union Banking Corporation under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The liquidation yielded a reported $750,000 apiece for Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker. The book, The Splendid Blonde Beast: Money, Law and Genocide, goes into exhaustive detail on Bush-Harriman Nazi money laundering. More recently, Michael Kranish covers the same Bush-Nazi relationships in The Rise of the Bush Family Dynasty published in the Boston Globe. Loftus documents that "Prescott Bush knowingly served as a money launderer for the Nazis. Remember that Union Bank's books and accounts were frozen by the U.S. Alien Property Custodian in 1942 and not released back to the Bush family until 1951."
Often ignored are the Bush family's post-World War II dealings with former Nazis. John Foster Dulles, who had worked with the Bush family in the Harriman Company in laundering money for Nazi Germany, was Dwight Eisenhower's Secretary of State. His brother Allen became CIA director.
As Martin Lee documents in The Beast Reawakens, American intelligence recruited numerous top Nazis to spy on the Soviets during the Cold War. Many established connections to the Bush family that had helped finance their original rise to power. In 1988 Project Censored, in its top award, noted "how the major mass media ignored, overlooked or undercovered at least ten critical stories reported in America's alternative press that raised serious questions about the Republican candidate, George Bush, dating from his reported role as a CIA 'asset' in 1963 to his presidential campaign's connection with a network of anti-Semites with Nazi and fascist affiliations in 1988." Investigative reporter Russ Bellant established ties between the Republican Party and former Axis Nazis and fascists.
In 2000 and 2001 the Columbus Alive published a series of articles documenting further links between Bush, Sr. and the Rev. Sun Myung Moon and his own fascist networks in Japan and Korea.
Karl Rove has parallel ties. The shadowy Rove serves as "Bush's Brain" in the current White House. He is the political mastermind behind the California coup, and is now in the headlines for outing Valerie Plame, the CIA wife of Ambassador Joseph Wilson. A consummate strategist, Rove may have outed Plame in retaliation for Wilson's failure to back up the Bush claim that Saddam Hussein was buying nuclear weapons materials in Africa. According to some published reports, as many as seventy CIA operatives have been put at risk by Rove's retaliatory strike.
According to Wilson, and to Retired U.S. Navy Lt. Commander Al Martin (www.almartinraw.com), Rove's grandfather was Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg. Roverer was Reich-Statthalter---Nazi State Party Chairman---for his region. He was also a partner and senior engineer in the Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurburo A. G. engineering firm, which built the Birkenau death camp, at which tens of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, dissidents and other were slaughtered en masse.
Rove, who has been based in Utah and associated with the Mormon Church, is widely viewed as the chief engineer of the current Bush administration. He and Tom DeLay are attempting to force the Texas legislature to redistrict its Congressional delegations, adding seven sure seats to the Republican column. By controlling the state houses in New York, Florida, Texas and California, the GOP would have a lock on the four largest states in the union, and thus the ability to manipulate vote counts and strip voter registration rolls in the run-up to the 2004 election.
Rove is a prime behind-the-scenes mover in the Schwarzenegger campaign. On May 1, 1939, a year after the Nazis took control of Schwarzenegger's native Austria, his father Gustav, voluntarily joined Hilter's infamous Strumabteilung (SA), "brown shirt" stormtroopers. This was just six months after the brown shirts played a key role in the bloody Kristallnacht attacks on Germany's Jewish community.
The Vienna daily Der Standard noted recently that "Gustav, a high-ranking Nazi, brought up the bespectacled, rather frail boy with an iron fist and quite a few slaps in the face." Arnold's father favored a Hitler-style mustache in photos.
On October 3, ABC News broke the story of Schwarzenegger's 1977 interview in which he was asked whom he admired. Schwarzenegger replied, "I admire Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education, up to power. I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it."
To cover himself, Schwarzenegger has made substantial donations to the Los Angeles-based Wiesenthal Center, which tracks down ex-Nazis. Arnold has also renounced Hitler.
But he has not renounced his friendship with fellow Austrian Kurt Waldheim, the one-time head of the United Nations with known Nazi ties. The book Arnold: An Unauthorized Biography, documents Arnold toasting Waldheim, who had participated in Nazi atrocities during World War II, at his wedding to Maria Shriver. "My friends don't want me to mention Kurt's name, because of all the recent Nazi stuff and the U.N. controversy," Arnold said. "But I love him and Maria does to, and so thank you, Kurt."
On May 17, 2001, Schwarzenegger also met with Kenneth "Kenny Boy" Lay of Enron at the Peninsula Hotel in Los Angeles. Through the utility deregulation plan signed into law by Pete Wilson, Schwarzenegger's chief advisor, California was destabilized, bankrupting the state government and opening the door for Tuesday's recall election. Lay has been George W. Bush's chief financial backer, and a close associate of Karl Rove's.
According to Bob Woodward's Bush at War, Bush attended a New York Yankees game soon after the September 11 World Trade Center disaster. He wore a fireman's jacket. As he threw out the first pitch, the crowd roared. Thousands of fans stuck out their arms with thumbs up. Karl Rove, sitting in the box of Yankee owner George Steinbrenner, likened the roar of the crowd to "a Nazi rally."
He would know.
Bob Fitrakis's Spooks, Nuke & Nazis is now available at www.freepress.org. He is co-author with Harvey Wasserman of The SuperPower of Peace v. Bush et. al.. available November 1.
Harvey Wasserman is author of Harvey Wasserman's History of the United States and co-author (with Bob Fitrakis) of The Superpower of Peace v. Bush, et. al., soon available from www.freepress.org.
posted on March 2, 2007 05:13:10 PM
No, deceiver of vendio.
Some people hold on to their life long morals....their ethics...their values....
...others like hillary sell their souls for the vote...
change as the wind blows in a different direction. That doesn't take courage....that's a flip-flopper - selling out the security of our country to win the WH.
===============
edited to add a HINT
Bush ISN'T running in '08. We're disussing about candidates THAT ARE.
Somehow you appear to have missed that. And for some sad reason you want to continue discussing irrelevant issues that have NOTHING to do with ANY candidate that IS running.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
Ann Coulter
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 2, 2007 05:26 PM ]
posted on March 2, 2007 06:10:49 PM
""Bush ISN'T running in '08. We're disussing about candidates THAT ARE.""
(Uh, illiterate one, "about" is not necessary in that sentence. Try English.)
"""Somehow you appear to have missed that. And for some sad reason you want to continue discussing irrelevant issues that have NOTHING to do with ANY candidate that IS running. ""
I didn't miss anything and I certainly don't take orders from bossy neocons like you. I post what ever I please.
"""That doesn't take courage....that's a flip-flopper """
posted on March 3, 2007 06:55:05 AM
boy....old hillary sure is having a rough campaign season so far.
First many of the clinton 'hollywood' crowd have fallen in LOVE with obama.
And one by one, people whose support she thought she could count on....are ALSO rushing to the obama side.
And here she thought having the serial womanizer on her side was REALLY going to help her win the WH.
But as it is now....the lead she has enjoyed in the polls is diminishing while the numbers are continuing to go UP for obama.
========
Another Hillary defector
By ROBERT D. NOVAK
10 hours, 3 minutes ago
WASHINGTON -
Greg Craig, a Washington super-lawyer with close ties to the Clintons, is supporting Sen. Barack Obama for President.
Craig was a White House special counsel defending President Bill Clinton in the Senate impeachment trial. A partner in the Williams & Connolly law firm founded by the legendary Edward Bennett Williams, Craig served as an adviser to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy.
In confirming to this column his Presidential preference, Craig called Obama unique and added: "I've never seen anyone who has made the impact on people and on me." He said he was impressed with Obama when he first met him at the home of investment banker Vernon Jordan, an intimate friend and supporter of the Clintons.
---
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
What I am enjoying is watching 'Alinsky's Daughter' use what she learned on obama.
It's begun...and it WILL get much worse. We'll see how long obama can continue taking the 'high' road while she continues her 'little jabs' at him.
=====
And since the liberals here have long appeared to LOVE the sharp tongue of maureen dowd.....I'll SHARE, yes helen, SHARE lol lol this with dowd's followers.
Dowd: Hillary a 'Feral' Bully
Posted by Mark Finkelstein on March 3, 2007 - 07:13.
Did Maureen really mean to call Hillary "feral"?
As in: "a domestic animal that has returned to the wild and lives without human attention"?
Is there something about Hillary that brought to Dowd's mind the famed razorback from the senator's erstwhile state of Arkansas?
In any case, we'll take Maureen at her word.
In Where's His Right Hook? this morning, Dowd describes Barack Obama as being "bullied" by "the feral Hillary."
Yikes.
Dowd reports on a recent interview with Obama, to whom she variously refers as "Obambi" and "Barry," and lets us know she found herself, sitting across from him, feeling like the "nun [in the "Bells of St. Mary"] who teaches a schoolboy who's being bullied how to box."
So Obama brings out the protective nun in Dowd. I don't recall a woman ever mentioning that she felt like a nun in Bill Clinton's presence.
Dowd clearly has her doubts as to whether Obama has the requisite toughness as either candidate or leader:
Where's His Right Hook?
By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: March 3, 2007
If Hillary is in touch with her masculine side, Obama is in touch with his feminine side.
To continue reading this article, you must be a subscriber to TimesSelect. Log in now
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 3, 2007 08:37 AM ]
posted on March 3, 2007 08:50:53 AM
As someone who likes to believe and quote Communists linduh, I fail to see what your objection to Hillary is except that rich, strong, powerful, successful women make YOU want to "gag".
Gee, I sure hope this whole situation doesn't get as ugly and dirty as the Bushit's vile smear campaign against McCain back in 2000 !!!!
posted on March 3, 2007 05:31:11 PM
I suppose you all know that this is a silly smear story too. It's funny to note that Hillary was a Republican when she wrote the thesis...President of the College Republicans.
Hillary Diane Rodham already had covered a great deal of ideological territory when she sat down to assess Alinsky's tactics.
She grew up as a Goldwater Republican, like her father, in the middle-class Chicago suburb of Park Ridge. By the time she was a freshman at Wellesley, when she was elected president of the College Republicans, her concern with civil rights and the war in Vietnam put her closer to the moderate-liberal wing of the GOP led by Nelson Rockefeller. By her junior year, she had to be talked by her professor into taking an internship with Rep. Gerald R. Ford and the House Republican Caucus. In her senior year, she was campaigning for the anti-war Democrat Eugene McCarthy.
"I sometimes think that I didn't leave the Republican Party," she has written, "as much as it left me."
Elected president of the Wellesley student government, she worked closely with the administration to increase black enrollment, to relax rules on curfews for the Wellesley girls and to give students more freedom in choosing their courses.
posted on March 3, 2007 05:45:04 PM
Bill Clinton graduated from Georgetown University in 1968 and became a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford, where he led antiwar protests.
Pursuing a clever campaign, he avoided the draft.
Hillary was more prominent in the '60s. At Wellesley College she participated in antiwar activities, got to know Robert Reich (later Labor Secretary), and appeared several times on College Bowl, an academic TV show.
In 1969, her graduation speech chiding her elders (especially Sen. Ed Brooke of Massachusetts, who'd spoken just before her) drew national attention.
In 1970, she packed off to Yale Law School, where she met Bill.
======
Smear???? ROFLOL
edited to add:
THEN after college she CHOSE to intern for lawyers that were members of the US Communist party. LOL
Yep...a republican through and through.
ROFLOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
Ann Coulter
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 3, 2007 05:48 PM ]
posted on March 4, 2007 12:17:16 PM
I know that hillary has instructed the liberal MSM to NOT discuss her husbands affairs....his impeachment...etc...or there will be HELL to pay.
But the more centralist and right leaning NEW MEDIA and blogs WILL be discussing most of what old slick willie did during his administration, whether hillary likes it or not.
Like I said....should she win the dem nomination...we're going to be reading and hearing about ALL that voters were upset with the clintons about - in their duel presidency. LOL
This being but one of them:
Bill Clinton's Pardons Set to Haunt Hillary
An obscure court case threatens to bring Bill Clinton's presidential pardons controversy back into the public eye just as Hillary Clinton heats up her campaign for the White House.
Bill Clinton issued
140 presidential pardons in his final days in office, and drew howls of protest when it came to light that Hillary's two brothers had received money from several of the people pardoned.
posted on March 4, 2007 01:24:24 PM
Another double standard that I've noticed in the last few years is this one.
That liberals SCREAM their heads off about the so called 'separation of church and state' WHENEVER a preacher of a conservative church speaks of ANYTHING political.
BUT...the liberal candidates ALWAYS go into and give their political positions in these SAME churhces.
So preachers can't...under the threat of having their IRS status voided....but liberals politicians CAN.
tsk tsk tsk
And that's just what BOTH hillary and obama are doing again.
Are YOU a Bunghole?
We're disussing about candidates THAT ARE.