posted on April 16, 2007 12:19:15 PM
AT LEAST 32 PEOPLE KILLED IN SHOOTINGS ON VIRGINIA TECH CAMPUS...
'Everyone Started to Panic and Jumping Out of the Window' ...
Statement of Virginia
Tech President...
2 Bomb Threats Last Week...
SKY NEWS: Witnesses said he was heavily armed and entered the college looking for his girlfriend... He reportedly lined up students and opened fire at them. He was said to be an Asian, in his mid-20s...
Cell phone clip captures sound of gunfire...
Injured Student Describes Chaotic
Scene And Shooter...
posted on April 17, 2007 10:11:21 AM
And now you can bet all the antigunnazi's will be slithering up out of the sewer, demanding more gun control laws.
What is really needed is more people licensed to legally carry firearms.
Ironically the Virginia state legislature defeated a measure to allow the licensed carry of handguns on the Virginia Tech campus last year.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on April 17, 2007 10:36:04 AM
Yep, that's a given bear.
Just finished reading an article on just that subject.
One of the professors there was shot and killed trying to protect his students from the shooter. Had he had a gun....he could have done a much better job of saving their lives.
posted on April 17, 2007 11:16:53 AM
Thank God for the HEROS
taken from the Las Vegas Sun, today: [and in part]
Today: April 17, 2007 at 10:0:5 PDT
Holocaust Survivor Saved Students' Lives
By LAURIE COPANS
Associated Press Writer
JERUSALEM (AP) -
The e-mails from grateful students arrived soon after Liviu Librescu was shot to death, telling how the Holocaust survivor barricaded the doorway of his Virginia Tech classroom and saved their lives at the cost of his own.
Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer who survived the Nazi killings and later escaped from Communist Romania, was one of several foreign victims of Monday's shootings, which coincided with Israel's Holocaust remembrance day.
"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Librescu's son, Joe Librescu, said Tuesday in a telephone interview from his home outside Tel Aviv.
"Students started opening windows and jumping out."
posted on April 17, 2007 11:54:47 AMHow can any university/school protect their students against these sicko's? I don't believe they can.
It can be done through stricter gun control laws.
Bush: "But the best way to protect our citizens from guns is to prosecute those who commit crimes with guns."
So how does Bush suggest we prosecute the gunman in this case since he is dead already? His logic would not have prevented another crime like this from occurring. His statement above is more of his flawed logic about protecting America. Drugs are illegal and people still find a way to get them. So how is prosecuting people after a crime is committed going to stop a future crime??
The death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent for crime and we all know how successful that has been in deterring crime.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on April 17, 2007 12:04:50 PM
No, then only criminals would have guns.
We have a constitutional RIGHT to own guns. Although the anti-gun group would like to change that.
Then all American's would be unprotected...unable to form 'militias' to protect ourselves from anything...even our own gov. should that ever become necessary.
Only fools want American's to give up their constitutionally protected RIGHTS.
==
One positive thing that did come out of this carnage was the shooter killed himself.
Saved taxpayers a ton of money paying to defend his actions for years and years.
posted on April 17, 2007 12:28:39 PM
Its time for the new-cons to try to DIVIDE AND CONQUER. They will try to cover up the BUSH MESS in HIS IRAQ WAR,THE BUSH FINANCIAL RAPING OF THE MIDDLE CLASS ETC with the OLD AND TIRED DIVIDE AND CONQUER GUN ISSUE.
If this terrible VA TECH shooting happened in IRAQ both NEO-CONS BEAR and LIAR_K would be reporting how well the "BUSH SURGE" is working in THE BUSH IRAQ CIVIL WAR. LIAR_K would be posting her "GOOD IRAQ NEWS" posts saying the body count is way down.
The truth is a lot more innocent Iraqi people are being killed everyday for over 4 years in THE BUSH IRAQ CIVIL WAR.
Before the NEW-CONS were able DIVIDE US with their LIES on Religion,Taxes,Abortion,Morals,Values,WMD and so forth. The new-cons are finished and so aren't their BULL ROAR LIES.
posted on April 17, 2007 01:02:53 PM
This isn't a gun control thread either but some will EXPLOIT the situation by bringing it up.
Yes, as horrified and saddened as we are about this situation it happens almost EVERY DAY in Iraq!
TRY to think how Iraqis feel !!!!!!
This isn't a gun control issue....it's not a Korean issue...it's not even a school safety issue.....
The issue is....
ONE individual HUMAN BEING with mental health problems lost control and committed a heinous act.....it has happened before and will happen again.
No laws, no talk, nothing can stop something like this from ever hapening again as long as the earth is populated with human beings.
posted on April 17, 2007 01:11:29 PMWe have a constitutional RIGHT to own guns. Although the anti-gun group would like to change that.
Oh come on Linda aren't you willing to give up some of your rights and freedoms for the greater good of preventing tragedies. Why do you need you have the need to protect yourself. What do you have to hide? Yes we have a constitutional right, but we can get that changed with a constitutional amendment. Besides no where did I advocate outlawing guns for "non criminals", I suggested there should be stricter laws before people are able to get guns.
To quote Bush "There ought to be limits to Freedom" - May 21, 1999
No, then only criminals would have guns.
So was the VA Tech shooter a criminal before or after he shot the 32 people?
Was the hunter in Wisconsin a criminal before or after he killed 6 people during a hunt a couple of years ago?
Were the Columbine killers, criminals before or after their rampage?
In all these cases they were not criminals until they committed the first crime.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on April 17, 2007 01:19:13 PMOnly fools want American's to give up their constitutionally protected RIGHTS.
I am so glad you said, Linda. It was you that was advocating the passage of the Patriot Act even though Americans would have to give up some of the their constitutionally protected RIGHTS and civil liberties in order to have more protection.
So I guess you would have to fall into that fool category.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on April 17, 2007 01:25:12 PMNo, ld, besides lying once about me this morning....try and discuss the TOPIC and not keep stating MY personal positions. I can and do speak for myself. Don't need you spending your whole day MIS QUOTING everything that I've said.
============
And when I asked: what can any university do about these wackos....I was not ONLY referring to guns....but to the NEW BOMB threats that have been made in the last two days .....where the universities have had to evacuate the buildings....spend time looking for the bombs....then hope students can go BACK into their classrooms and not have this huge FEAR of being blown up.
posted on April 17, 2007 01:54:23 PMDon't need you spending your whole day MIS QUOTING everything that I've said.
Trying to deny that you supported the Patriot Act, Linda. Your previous posts support that Linda. Now you are going to deny ever supporting the Parriot Act.
You want to make yourself out to be more of a liar.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
Using Virginia Tech Massacre to Bring Up Gun Control
The mass murder by a student on the campus of Virginia Tech dominated Tuesday's Times, as some of the paper's coverage teased the gun control angle.
Reporter Robin Toner led the Times' Tuesday political column with "Renewed Scrutiny For Gun Controls" and found a familiar whipping boy: The National Rifle Association.
"Leaders in both parties voiced their sympathies, their outrage and their prayers in the aftermath of the shootings at Virginia Tech. Advocates of gun control legislation said they are hoping for something more -- a reopening of the legislative debate over regulating guns."
[…]
"Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said, 'The politicians are afraid to address this issue.' In September 2004, gun control advocates lost ground when a federal ban on the sale of 19 kinds of semiautomatic weapons was allowed to expire, after intense lobbying by the National Rifle Association.
"'I think after today, what we're doing and what we want the American people to do is start asking our elected officials: "What are we going to do about this?" Mr. Helmke said.
The rifle association said its 'thoughts and prayers are with the families,' but declined further comment."
Tuesday's lead editorial, "Eight Years After Columbine," ended with a call to disarm.
"Yesterday's mass shooting at Virginia Tech -- the worst in American history -- is another horrifying reminder that some of the gravest dangers Americans face come from killers at home armed with guns that are frighteningly easy to obtain.
"Not much is known about the gunman, who killed himself, or about his motives or how he got his weapons, so it is premature to draw too many lessons from this tragedy."
But the paper concluded with one anyway. "Our hearts and the hearts of all Americans go out to the victims and their families. Sympathy was not enough at the time of Columbine, and eight years later it is not enough. What is needed, urgently, is stronger controls over the lethal weapons that cause such wasteful carnage and such unbearable loss."
The Times editorial failed to mention that guns are banned on the Virginia Tech campus -- how much stronger can controls get?
There was also the front-page banner headline "32 Shot Dead in Virginia; Worst U.S. Gun Rampage," which called attention to the nature of the massacre rather that the evil intent of the shooter himself, as if a depersonalized firearm was responsible for the killing.
The Los Angeles Times also used the "gun rampage" in its banner headline, while The Washington Post used the more neutral term "shooting."
posted on April 17, 2007 02:00:54 PMNo, then only criminals would have guns.
Washington, DC—Traditionally "pro-gun" states in the South and West lead the nation in overall firearm death rates according to a new analysis issued today by the Violence Policy Center (VPC) of just-released Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data. The new VPC analysis uses 2003 data (the most recent available) from the CDC's National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. The analysis reveals that the top 10 states with the highest per capita gun death rates were Louisiana, Alaska, Wyoming, New Mexico, Alabama, Nevada, Mississippi, Montana, Arizona, and Arkansas (see chart below for top 10 states, for a ranking of all 50 states, please visit http://www.vpc.org/fadeathchart.htm). Each of the top 10 states had a per capita gun death rate of at least 15 per 100,000, far exceeding the national per capita gun death rate of 10.36 per 100,000.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on April 17, 2007 02:01:03 PM
U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths
BY CHELSEA J. CARTER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.
The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000.
The study, done by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the first comprehensive international look at gun-related deaths. It was published Thursday in the International Journal of Epidemiology.
The CDC would not speculate why the death rates varied, but other researchers said easy access to guns and society's acceptance of violence are part of the problem in the United States.
``If you have a country saturated with guns -- available to people when they are intoxicated, angry or depressed -- it's not unusual guns will be used more often,'' said Rebecca Peters, a Johns Hopkins University fellow specializing in gun violence. ``This has to be treated as a public health emergency.''
The National Rifle Association called the study shoddy because it failed to examine all causes of violent deaths.
``What this shows is the CDC is after guns. They aren't concerned with violence. It's pretending that no homicide exists unless it's related to guns,'' said Paul Blackman, a research coordinator for the NRA in Fairfax, Va.
The 36 countries chosen were listed as the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, with the highest GNP per capita income.
The study used 1994 statistics supplied by the 36 countries. Of the 88,649 gun deaths reported by all the countries, the United States accounted for 45 percent, said Etienne Krug, a CDC researcher and co-author of the article.
Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on April 17, 2007 02:18:32 PMYou and mingotree/crowfarm spend MOST of your posts MIS QUOTING everything I have EVER said here.
What I'm ASKING....is that your STOP doing just that.
LIES LIES AND MORE LIES LINDA. The proof is out there.
First off, I never QUOTED YOU, so how can you say I MISQUOTED you. I stated you [were] advocating the passage of the Patriot Act even though Americans would have to give up some of the their constitutionally protected RIGHTS and civil liberties in order to have more protection. This was based on all your past conversations about the Patriot Act.
ARE YOU GOING TO LIE NOW AND DENY EVERYTHING YOU PREVIOUS SAID ABOUT THE PATRIOT ACT.
Linda K: Everyone gets sooooo upset about THEIR civil rights being violated. But so far, I've never read a post, and believe even Diane Finestein asked for a report on any complains that their civil rights were violated by the Patriot Act....and she said none had been reported.
There is an entire thread on OTWA about the Patriot Act and how you support what was contained in the act.
Linda K "What I am saying is that out of 300,000 million US citizens you're upset about how man????"
Linda K "Imo, it's a matter of weighing the benefits we've received by using these laws.....vs the preceived threats people worry about...."
linda K: Guess you see no 'benefit' in those being avoided. Well I think it's worth the 'price' for the overall benefit of all those citizens whose lives were spared from their acts. NO program/law/act has ever been perfect....and they never will be. To require perfections is totally unrealistic, imo.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on April 17, 2007 02:31:18 PM
LIAR_K and BEAR,
Bear wrote this "And now you can bet all the antigunnazi's will be slithering up out of the sewer, demanding more gun control laws." LIAR_K replied "Yep, that's a given bear"
I am making sure you and bear don't turn this into a divide the people gun issue.
I am also making sure you can't use the terrible shooting at VA TECH to gloss over the daily slater in THE BUSH IRAQ CIVIL WAR. If either one of you don't like it TOO BAD!!!
Your kind is finished and I am helping to make sure your KIND stays finished!!!!
posted on April 17, 2007 03:14:36 PM
It can be done through stricter gun control laws.
Bovine Deification!!!!!!!!!
The Klinton "Assault Gun Provisions and high cap magazine ban" proved that more gun laws isnt the answer.
After the expiration of the provision, CRIME DECREASED.
Only the ignorant would propose MORE gun laws. In fact more gun laws and firearm registration aided Hitler in his quest for World domination but then that is what all the anti gun libs want.
The fact is that the student that killed all his fellow students and profs, legally purchased the weapons and illegally took those weapons onto a gun free campus.
If all the facts are ever released, I'll wager it will be found that this kid in fact was part of a North Korean
terrorist cell. Brain washed (like the antigunnazi's are trying to do now) over a period of 15 years by his adopted parents just for this purpose.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on April 17, 2007 03:14:56 PM
Saw that he had purchased a gun in March, as well as 50 bullets.
Wondering still is he had a concealed weapons permit
spent time at any gun range
Seems like he did little to avoid bringing attention to the purchase if he produced his license and used legal means to acquire the gun.
He removed the serial number from the gun.
scratched it off?
why would he care if it could be traced (was traced anyway, though)?
The BATF & FBI have recourses that enable them to "raise" the S/N's" from weapons on which they have been ground off. Something to do with a acid, (I'm sure most libs are familiar with acid), process.
In fact if you continue to read Waco Sheepas posts, you will find the perfect example of what happens when acid is misused.
In fact his home state is currently trying to enact more gun laws to restrict the lawful ownership of firearms by law abiding citizens, One of those laws is ripe for misuse, requiring firearm owners to pay a $10.00 fee (read registration fee) for EACH firearm they own.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
[ edited by Bear1949 on Apr 17, 2007 03:24 PM ]
