Christianity confuses me, and I would like some help. I am Jewish, and I have a question I've not been able to get a clear answer for. As a Jew, I see the Bible as a Law Book. It holds the rule you are supposed to follow. I would assume a Christian would say that the new law, the New Testiment over-rules the old law. Just like a new law can eliminate or change an old law.
The Torah (old Testiment) says clearly what you are supposed to do in some matters. It clearly says there are things that you are supposed to eat, that you are not supposed to eat. It Clearly says that you should take the 7th day as a day of rest. I could go on, but you get the picture.
Where and how does the new testiment say you should now eat pork, shellfish, etc? Where and how does the new testiment say you should take the First day of the week for rest, and not the 7th? I could continue all day with further examples, but I will leave it at this for now.
posted on April 18, 2007 02:37:56 PM new
You know, that's almost funny, but considering that you've set yourself up as one of the devout here, and my questions are seriously intended, I wonder how your god would receive your attitude or comment. That hardly seems to be the love the Jesus talked about.
posted on April 18, 2007 02:50:46 PM new
I think the historical Jesus was more concerned with the inner person that with outward behavior. Remember that the Sadducees, who controlled the temple, were an aristocratic hereditary priesthood who had become almost anally obsessed with the minutia of Mosaic Law rather than it's spirit. They did not accept the concept of life after death and were obsessive about the observation of ritual and the minutia of the law. All these rules, Jesus felt, concerned only an individual's observable behavior; rules did not penetrate to the person's inner being and lead to a moral transformation. Observing god's order to rest on the Sabbath— for example, by not eating an egg laid on Saturday or by not lifting a chair on that day—did not purify a person's soul or get him any personally closer to god.
In the concept of Jesus' time, he seems to have seen himself not as denying the old law, but being destined to renew it's actual spirit.
'Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.' "(Matthew 5:17)
I don't know that you'd ever get any agreement on this from a room full of Christians, unless they all happened to wear the same stripe. This is just my take, as a former christian and amateur student of religion.
posted on April 19, 2007 06:13:54 AM new
Edited: I realized after I posted that part of my post must have gotten deleted with the "copy" "pastes".
I don't know about "devout". Don't confuse "devout" with some of the teachings of some of the right-wing (or in all fairness, "left-wing" Christian sects - they are not the same thing. I consider myself a practicing Christian and have spent my life trying to live like a Christian. I spent many of my earlier years trying to reconcile Faith and Intellect before coming to the conclusion that Faith cannot be reconciled.
Jesus was a radical Jew. He embraced the written word of God handed down to Moses, the Torah Shebiksav (the Written Torah). This is the part of the Torah that Christians call the "Old Testament". The oral part (teachings passed down from generation to generation)of the Torah, the Torah Sheb’al Peh is not part of the Old Testament. Much of the dietary laws etc is contained in the Torah Sheb’al Peh.
Christianity is really very simple. Jesus summarized the laws for us in two "shalts" (words of action):
"Hear what our Lord Jesus Christ saith.
THOU shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
So there you have it, "Love God" (and by loving him you follow the ten commandments handed down to Moses) and "Love Man" (Matthew 25) "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
posted on April 19, 2007 08:37:01 PM new
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil "
I guess he didnt like "lefties" either...not that I blame him...
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
posted on April 20, 2007 09:53:00 AM new
The problem as I see it with Christianity in all its forms is that EVERY branch picks and chooses which "laws" in the Bible it will follow and which it will ignore.
There are laws in Leviticus (in the Torah) that are incredibly weird, and not followed.
And of the seven deadly sins, which church actually preaches against the sin of gluttony? How many spiritual leaders are piggish men with huge bellies?
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Dogs have owners, cats have staff.
posted on April 20, 2007 10:39:15 AM new
"And of the seven deadly sins, which church actually preaches against the sin of gluttony? How many spiritual leaders are piggish men with huge bellies?"
Obviously not that fat racist pig Al Sharptons church...
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[ edited by classicrock000 on Apr 20, 2007 10:45 AM ]
posted on April 20, 2007 12:38:25 PM new
"Where and how does the new testiment say you should now eat pork, shellfish, etc? Where and how does the new testiment say you should take the First day of the week for rest, and not the 7th?"
We covered Galatians n school just today, so this is very fresh in my mind. Paul is writing in response to a debate over whether or not circumcision is necessary or not, which was a MAJOR sticking point in gaining new converts (imagine why!).
He writes that Jesus told him that he should accept gentiles as gentiles, not as new Jews. He preaches that he was specifically sent to the uncircumcised. Eventually he summarized by saying those who circumcise themselves have become Jews and must follow the ENTIRE law of the Jews.
By reverse implication, Christians should neither be circumcised nor follow the old law.
As far as which day of the week it is, that has been debated hotly since...forever. Some groups, like the 7th Day Adventists take this very seriously. Others don't see it as crucial at all, as long as you do it one day a week. who really knows which is day 1, day 2 or whatever? It's just like December 25th as Jesus' birthday; everyone knows it isn't really, but you have to pick some date and stick with it.
There's my short answer. Let me point out without getting too SPAMMY, that there might be better, less hostile, places to ask this kind of Question.
posted on April 20, 2007 12:59:44 PM new
"Where and how does the new testiment say you should take the First day of the week for rest, and not the 7th?"
Some groups, like the 7th Day Adventists take this very seriously. "
Since "classics" been retired I take everyday as a day of rest....and yes I do take this very seriously..
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
posted on April 20, 2007 01:06:07 PM new
"He writes that Jesus told him that he should accept gentiles as gentiles, not as new Jews. He preaches that he was specifically sent to the uncircumcised"
so what did these dudes do in the olden days,go around checking everyones dick to see if they were circumcised?? Seems to me they had too much time on their hands.What happened to the good stuff like war,rape,pillage and plunder???
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
posted on April 21, 2007 10:14:16 AM new
Its always a laugh when a serious question gets asks of the (OH SO PHONY HOLY CHRISTIAN RIGHT NEW-CONS). Nothing but BULL ROAR from the new-cons.
I really thought it funny how the GRUNT got slapped.
I have often said before where are the new-cons going to run,where are they going to hide, when that day comes.
