posted on April 19, 2007 07:07:02 AM new
KERRY: IMUS FIRING UNFAIR
By MAGGIE HABERMAN
April 18, 2007 -- Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry yesterday said he doesn't think Don Imus should have been fired for his racially charged comments - a sharp break with the current Democratic 2008 front-runners.
"You know, the punishment has to fit the crime, so to speak," Kerry, the Democrats' defeated 2004 White House hopeful, told NY1.
Kerry, who had Imus' support in that race, said he might be willing to go on a future Imus show if the radio host finds a new station - but "if he goes back to doing the same old, same old, I'd have trouble doing that."
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on April 19, 2007 08:58:43 AM new
It amazes me how some people criticize or make fun of someone who served his country, received a Bronze Star and a Silver Star and was wounded in Viet Nam and yet are gung ho supporters of a man who has never served in the military, ignores recommendations of generals and others with military experience and lied about the reasons we got into this war.
posted on April 19, 2007 10:14:45 AM new
What amazes me is how you can support someone who got his unit shot up, put his men in un-warranted danger, and then came home to denounce those same men he put in danger.
Then you denounce a man who did serve in the military. Just because he did not see combat doesn't mean the job he did wasn't honorable. There were many military personel that had to stay in the US to protect your sorry azz. He just happened to be one of them.
.
.
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If it's called common sense, why do so few Demomorons have it?
posted on April 19, 2007 10:23:41 AM new
Imo, the confusion from the left about SOME righties not supporting those they see as 'heros' is their positions on the military in general.
MOST liberals don't really support a strong military...that's why they are constantly fighting any recruitment efforts by our military. That's why they cut military spending in favor of social programs. That's why they're usually against MOST wars.
Whereas MOST of the right does support just the opposite.
So...when the liberals finally can 'claim' a liberal 'hero' it's only because they have so few to support.
What they CAN'T see, imo, is the actually anti-American actions/speech that their so called 'heros' make.
Like kerry....anyone reading about his military service would laugh....and would see his anti-American troop speech before the senate back in the '70's AND is anti-troop speeches now....calling them TERRORISTS.....is NOT supporting our troops, honoring his military service, NOR being a supporter of our troops in any way shape or form.
But the liberals have to 'cling' to whatever they have....no matter how wrong or how low they'll go against Americas best interests or our troops.
Our troops who get wounded and WANT to return to service with their units....so unlike kerry who got HIMSELF injured with 'cuts' some believe were self-inflicted so he didn't have to serve any more than this 3-4 MONTHS in VN.
posted on April 19, 2007 10:26:16 AM new
Bear - kerry's support for Imus' right of free speech....is imo, ONLY because there are reports that he's AGAIN thinking of running for the WH.
First he's going to run...sees he has NO support...then he's not.
Then he is, then he's not. Now, according to some reporters he is THINKING about doing so once again. So he HAS to keep his 'name' in the news.
The man just CAN'T make a decision. And some would want HIM to be CIC? Whoa baby....never I hope.
posted on April 19, 2007 11:26:57 AM new
"What amazes me is how you can support someone who got his unit shot up, put his men in un-warranted danger, and then came home to denounce those same men he put in danger.
Then you denounce a man who did serve in the military. Just because he did not see combat doesn't mean the job he did wasn't honorable. There were many military personel that had to stay in the US to protect your sorry azz. He just happened to be one of them."
According to his service records, Kerry merited those medals. Show me proof he did not. If you are paying attention to the swift boaters, they long ago were dicredited.
I did not denounce anyone. I said I was amazed at the opinions of some people.
[ edited by coincoach on Apr 19, 2007 11:28 AM ]
posted on April 19, 2007 12:04:32 PM new
"Defenders of John Kerry's service record, including virtually all of his former crewmates, have stated that SBVT's accusations are false" Check out Wikipedia under John Kerry Military Controversy if you want to read the rest of this.
posted on April 19, 2007 12:10:06 PM new
The "dishonorable" part (since it is obvious you don't "get" it) is re-enacting scenes to be filmed for your future political career and "pumping up" your activities to be awarded citations. You forget Kerry always had political aspirations and was wealthy and had "connections". If your citations are rejected several times and then suddenly "approved" after a few phone calls, you and your liberal friends can all get pats on the back for being "honorable".
Kerry lost because the people with the bullet holes, etc, didn't like Purple Heart citations given out for thumb splinters.
posted on April 19, 2007 12:19:02 PM new
Agreed, desquirrel.
======
And that's why kerry STILL hasn't allowed ALL his military records to be public.
He's hiding the truth. And even after allowing SOME of them to be public....there are others that he HAS promised to release and after all this time he STILL hasn't.
I don't believe the Swift Boat vets were discredited in any way. THEY were there...they know the TRUTH of kerrys actions. And we, the American public heard his words about the vets in VN AND his continuing BASHING of our troops since he decided he wanted to be CIC.
The American public wasn't fooled by all his and the liberal deniers. The TRUTH was there for all to check out.
And the FACT that he thinks only those who can't get any education are the ones who are now serving....only PROVES his own IGNORANCE.
PLUS he wanted to GIVE Iran NW FUEL.....to help THEM out in the NW program.
posted on April 19, 2007 12:21:36 PM new
CC is so focused on kerry's medals. LOL
Did you watch the footage of kerry THROWING his medals AWAY?
We then find out that he wasn't actually throwing HIS OWN medals away....lol....he just PRETENDED TO DO THAT....he claims now he just threw away the medals of OTHERS.
posted on April 19, 2007 12:26:58 PM new
As to the medals. In all wars, officers pat each other on the back. They nominate each other for decorations, transfer people to different units, etc, to add campaign ribbons, etc. This has been going on for centuries.
You continually say "he got the Bronze Star". More to the subject at hand, everybody else says, "he got the Bronze Star for THAT????"
If 2 guys on your boat call you Jesus and the other 500 guys in your outfit say you can't walk on water, buy a life preserver.
posted on April 19, 2007 12:55:27 PM new
I read up on this. Where do you think I got the information I am citing? Read pros and cons too. You should try that once. It seems several of the officers who now discredit Kerry, wrote books which had the facts they remember to be similar to what Kerry defenders have said. Try reading up on it.
[ edited by coincoach on Apr 19, 2007 12:59 PM ]
posted on April 19, 2007 01:06:04 PM new John Kerry volunteered for service in the Navy during the Vietnam War, where he served as skipper of a swift boat that patrolled the Mekong Delta. Lt. Kerry was awarded the Silver Star, the Bronze Star with Combat V, three Purple Hearts, the Presidential Unit Citation for Extraordinary Heroism, the National Defense Service Medal, the Vietnam Service Medal, three Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medals, and the Combat Action Ribbon. He is a cofounder of the Vietnam Veterans of America and a life member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. In the United States Senate, he has led the fight to investigate the fate of POW/MIAs in Vietnam, treat and compensate victims of Agent Orange and study the cause of war-related illnesses in Gulf War veterans.
posted on April 19, 2007 01:18:32 PM new
"As to the medals. In all wars, officers pat each other on the back. They nominate each other for decorations, transfer people to different units, etc, to add campaign ribbons, etc. This has been going on for centuries."
Another new-con degrading "centuries" of our brave American Troops.
These people disgust me they are so full of BULL ROAR.
posted on April 19, 2007 01:24:37 PM new
You ever notice how you'll make a post using information readily available ie: Kerry was turned down for citations many times and then eventually got them, Kerry gets Purple Heart for a band aid put on splinter, etc, etc, and Helen will post (thinking she's very clever no doubt) basically information that means nothing and thinks she proved something?
Joe Blow announced Tuesday he appointed his son-in-law, John Doe, VP of Operations of the Mega Corp.
"Hey man, you can can't say that bad thing about John Doe!" He became VP of Operations of the Mega Corp.!!!!!!
posted on April 19, 2007 01:41:09 PM new
For the people too stupid to breathe, who invent stuff w/o basis, your sing song bs has no effect on the facts.
As a perfect example: I'm sure the C.O. (who by his statement, not some campaign manager's), who almost laughed aloud reading Kerry's medal request, would never denigrate anyone earning a decoration.
Kind of the reverse, you know. Kerry is the one denigrating a Purple Heart wearing by requesting one for an "injury" the corpsman who treated him laughed at.
posted on April 19, 2007 01:48:56 PM new Duh Squirrel,You obviously can't answer the question. Your pitiful attempts at swift boating are crystal clear. Sidle up to Bear and Linduh.
During the last several years, I've read nothing written by you but snide and tediously contrived sentences written from a viewpoint of arrogance that is clearly undeserved.
posted on April 19, 2007 01:53:25 PM new
Here we go allover again. Kerry has been proven to be a PAPER HERO and a traitor to American fighting men from Viet Nam to Iraq. And he is the only American military officer that the North Vietnamese have directly attributed to their "winning the war".
FBI Files Show Kerry Met With Communists More Than Once
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
June 04, 2004
(CNSNews.com) - Newly released FBI files reveal that presumed Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry attended a second meeting with North Vietnamese communists in Paris in the early 1970s. Kerry has previously admitted to meeting only once with the North Vietnamese delegations in 1970.
According to the FBI files, Kerry met with representatives from the North Vietnamese government in Paris in 1971 in an effort to secure the release of captured American prisoners of war. Kerry has previously acknowledged meeting "both delegations" of Vietnamese communists in Paris in 1970, but has said nothing of the 1971 meeting.
Researcher and author Jerry Corsi, who began studying the anti-war movement in the early 1970s, believes Kerry is hiding key aspects about his anti-war past from the public as he seeks the presidency.
"Kerry has admitted to one meeting with Madam Binh. Now we have reason to believe there was a second [meeting], so let's press them to admit the second [meeting]," Corsi told CNSNews.com.
"Kerry needs to explain to the American people why he directly went into negotiations with communists," Corsi added. Corsi has written an essay on Kerry's dealings with the Vietnamese communists on the Internet site, WinterSoldier.com.
According to Gerald Nicosia, a Kerry supporter and the author of the book Home to War: A History of the Vietnam Veterans' Movement, Kerry's second visit to Paris to meet with emissaries of the North Vietnamese communist government is documented in redacted FBI files from the era.
"The [FBI] files record that Kerry made a second trip to Paris that summer (1971) to learn how the North Vietnamese might release prisoners," Nicosia wrote in an essay in the Los Angeles Times on May 23.
"After deciding not to run [for Congress] in 1970, he and his new wife, Julia Thorne, traveled to France in May to meet Madame Nguyen Thi Binh and other Viet Cong and Communist Vietnamese representatives to the Paris peace talks, a trip he now calls a 'fact-finding mission,"' Nicosia wrote.
Nicosia noted that, "Kerry had tried to distinguish between his own trips to meet with the Vietnamese in Paris, which he considered necessary to fight through the lies of his own government, and actual negotiations with the enemy, which Kerry knew were illegal."
Kerry told the New York Times on April 24 that his first meeting with the Vietnamese communists in 1970 was "not a big deal."
''People were dropping in (at the Paris Peace Talks). It was a regular sort of deal," Kerry explained to the New York Times.
But Corsi believes it was a very big deal.
"You had (Former Nixon aide) Henry Kissinger there (in Paris) trying to negotiate formally with the Paris peace delegation and then these guys (from Vietnam Veterans Against the War) are off on their own side show, establishing back channels to the Vietnamese communists; all of this is against the law," Corsi said, referring to U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953, which declares it illegal for a U.S. citizen to go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power.
"Exactly who was Kerry ... to have arranged these trips? He had to be in discussion with some link with the communist party of Vietnam in order to establish these trips and meetings," Corsi explained.
Kerry also may have had plans to go to South Vietnam in 1971, according to a June 16, 1971 article in the communist Daily World newspaper.
"Former Navy Lt. John Kerry is planning a three-week trip to South Vietnam in July to report on 'what is really happening' to the GI's there, he told newsmen here," read the article, written by the Daily World's Ted Pearson. Kerry was attending an event in Chicago with Jesse Jackson, who at the time was head of the organization, Operation Bread Basket.
It is unclear whether Kerry ever made the trip to South Vietnam in 1971 and Kerry's campaign did not return several phone calls seeking comment for this article.
Nicosia has criticized Kerry in the past for not being more open about his anti-war past.
"I am in kind of an awkward position here. I am a Kerry supporter and I certainly don't want to do anything that hurts him. On the other hand, my number one allegiance is to truth. So I am going to go with where the facts are, and John is going to have to deal with that," Nicosia told CNSNews.com back in March when the contents of the FBI files became public and caused Kerry to revise his past statements on a series of issues dealing with his past.
"I am having some problems with the things he is saying right now, which are not matching up with accuracy," Nicosia said in March.
"I think [Kerry] may be worried or the people around him may be worried that his association with VVAW (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) is a very negative thing and they want John to back away from it," he added.
Kerry's anti-war activism and his meetings with the communists had a big impact, according to Corsi.
"Vietnamese communists would not have won the war without John Kerry. They were cultivating his protest activity with the VVAW," Corsi said.
Corsi said the Vietnamese communists have shown their gratitude to Kerry by displaying a photo of him at Ho Chi Minh City's Protestors Hall of the War Remnants Museum. The photo of fellow anti-war activist and actress Jane Fonda also appears in the Women's Museum in Saigon.
"As soon as [Kerry] came onto the seen, [the Vietnamese communists] latched on to him like bees on to honey. [The communists] said 'This is a guy who tells our story, it will undermine the sympathy for the war in America,'" Corsi added.
U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953. "A U.S. citizen cannot go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power,
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 45 > Sec. 953. Prev | Next
Sec. 953. - Private correspondence with foreign governments
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects
1. Kerry had antiwar political views as an undergraduate at Yale. (p. 23)
2. Kerry decided to enlist in the Navy Reserves after his petition for a deferment to study for one year in Paris was denied by the draft board. (p. 23)
3. What Kerry calls his "first tour of Vietnam" was five weeks involving no combat that he spent far off the coast of Vietnam on the USS Gridley. (p. 23-24)
4. Kerry volunteered for service on Swift Boats because, at the time, they had little to do with the war and he thought it would keep him out of combat. (p. 25-26)
5. Contrary to Kerry's claims in Tour of Duty, officers at Cam Ranh did not after patrols in rough water "come back pissing red" and "have broken bones." (p. 27)
6. Kerry lost no duty time as a result of any injury for which he received a Purple Heart. (p. 30)
7. Kerry's first Purple Heart
a. On December 2, 1968, Kerry was on a skimmer (a.k.a. a "Boston Whaler" as an officer in command under training. The overseeing officer on board was Lieutenant (now Rear Admiral) William Schachte. The two other crewmen were William Zaldonis and Patrick Runyon. (p. 35-36)
b. Kerry ordered Zaldonis to fire on some people running from one or more sampans that were on or near a beach. After Kerry's M-16 jammed, he picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade too close to his vessel, causing a tiny piece of shrapnel (one to two centimeters) to barely stick in his arm. Dr. Louis Letson removed the fragment with tweezers and put a small bandage on Kerry's arm. (p. 35-40)
c. There was no hostile fire of any kind. (p. 35-38)
d. The division commander, Grant Hibbard, refused Kerry's request to recommend him for a Purple Heart. The documents produced by Kerry do not indicate how, nearly three months later, he obtained the Purple Heart that Hibbard denied. (p. 38)
8. In December 1968, Kerry was transferred over his objections to An Thoi, which involved hazardous duty of missions within the inland waterways. He complained so much that his superiors at An Thoi transferred him out within a week. (p. 44-45)
9. Contrary to what he's claimed repeatedly for decades, Kerry did not spend Christmas 1968 in Cambodia. (p. 45-48)
10. On January 20, 1969, Kerry was the skipper of Swift Boat PCF 44. His crew fired on a family of five in a sampan, killing the father and an infant. Kerry has refused to produce the after-action report for this incident, but the report of the incident in the Commander Coastal Surveillance Force Vietnam Quarterly Evaluation Report of March 29, 1969 states that five Viet Cong were killed and two Viet Cong were captured. Since this report is based on Kerry's after-action report, it shows that Kerry falsified the report, by turning the dead father into five Viet Cong, turning the mother and child into captured Viet Cong, and ignoring the dead infant. (p. 53-62)
11. In January 1969, Kerry ordered his crewmen to slaughter by machine-gun fire numerous small animals milling around a hamlet on the Song Bo De River. He then personally burned the entire hamlet with a Zippo lighter. (p. 62)
12. Contrary to Kerry's journal entry, he did not confront Admiral Elmo Zumwalt on January 22, 1969 when Admiral Zumwalt addressed the Swift Boat commanders of Coastal Divisions 11 and 13. (p. 63-64)
13. Contrary to what Kerry claimed in the debate with John O'Neill on the Dick Cavett Show, none of the Swift Boat sailors and officers were refusing to carry out orders or starting to mutiny. (p. 64-65)
14. In his biography Tour of Duty, Kerry falsely charges Captain (now Admiral) Roy Hoffman with praising and wanting to give a Silver Star to an officer in the Da Nang Swift division who allegedly slaughtered thirty innocent fisherman. (p. 66-68)
15. In a telephone conversation on March 15, 2004, Kerry told Admiral Hoffman that if he would drop his efforts to organize the Swift Boat veterans against Kerry's candidacy, Kerry would ensure that the revised edition of his biography would be fair and more accurate regarding Hoffman. (p. 68-69)
16. Officers in charge of boats that ran seriously aground were required to report the situation to Coastal Division headquarters immediately because being grounded left them totally vulnerable and left unguarded the area they were to be patrolling. Kerry's boat was once grounded on a sandbar, and rather than risk getting Kerry in trouble, they waited hours for the tide to lift them. (p. 73-74)
17. Kerry would revisit ambush locations and reenact his exploits for his home movie camera. (p. 76)
18. Kerry's second Purple Heart
a. Kerry claims that on February 20, 1969, in the midst of intense rocket and rifle fire, he was hit in the left leg by shrapnel from a rocket-propelled grenade. (p. 77)
b. Rocky Hildreth, the officer of the accompanying boat, denies there was any intense rocket and rifle fire, and there was no damage done to any boat. (p. 78)
c. Van Odell, a sailor on PCF 93, heard Kerry's crew say that Kerry had faked a Purple Heart from his own M-79 grenade wound. In a 2002 email that he disowned after meeting with Kerry, one of Kerry's crewmen questioned this Purple Heart and indicated that it was for a negligently self-inflicted wound. (p. 78)
d. The wound was minor, and Kerry returned to duty only hours later. (p. 78)
19. In February 1969, Kerry's boat was operating with a boat commanded by Bob Hildreth. A mine went off near Hildreth's boat, and then at least five rockets were fired at Hildreth's boat. Rather than stand and fight or return and provide support, as was standard procedure, Kerry fled. Kerry then filed an operating report indicating that his boat rather than Hildreth's encountered the mine and the rocket attack. (p. 79-80)
20. Kerry's Silver Star
a. On February 28, 1969, Kerry was the Officer in Charge of PCF 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission. He had prearranged with his crew and the other boats that they would turn their boats into and onto the beach if fired upon. (p. 82)
b. The boats were loaded with many South Vietnamese soldiers commanded by Doug Reese and two other advisors. When fired upon, Reese's boat was the first to beach in the ambush zone, and Reese and other troops and advisors (not Kerry) disembarked, killing a number of Viet Cong and capturing weapons. (p. 82-83)
c. After Reese's boat beached, Kerry's boat moved slightly downstream and was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade in its aft cabin. A young Viet Cong popped out of a hole holding a grenade launcher, which may or may not have been loaded, and was shot in the leg with an M-60 machine gun by Tom Belodeau, Kerry's forward gunner. (p. 83)
d. Kerry's boat was beached, and the wounded Viet Cong fled. Kerry, Michael Medeiros, and possibly others pursued the Viet Cong and shot him in the back. (p. 83)
e. None of the participants on Reese's boat received a Silver Star. Most, if not all, of the non-PCF troops received no medals for this action. (p. 82)
21. Kerry's third Purple Heart and Bronze Star
a. On the morning of March 13, 1969, Kerry sustained a minor shrapnel wound in his buttocks when being too close to a grenade that he set off in a rice cache that was slated for destruction. (p. 87-89)
b. Later that day, Kerry's boat (PCF 94) was among several Swift Boats operating jointly on a river. A mine exploded under PCF 3, a boat commanded by Dick Pease. The crewmen of PCF 3 were thrown into the water and its officers were injured and suffered concussions. (p. 89-90)
c. The only mine to explode was the one that exploded under PCF 3, and there was no other hostile fire. The boats began firing after the mine exploded but ceased after a short time because of the lack of hostile fire. Contrary to standard doctrine, Kerry's boat fled, disappearing several hundred yards away. The remaining boats stayed to defend the disabled PCF 3 and its crewmen in the water. (p. 90)
d. Jack Chenoweth's boat picked up the PCF 3 crewmen thrown into the water, an action for which Chenoweth received no medals. After falling in the water on his first attempt, Larry Thurlow was able to board and bring the badly damaged PCF 3 to a stop. (p. 90)
e. During the incident, Jim Rassmann had fallen or been knocked out of either Kerry's boat or PCF 35. When he was spotted in the water, Chenoweth's boat, with the PCF 3 crew aboard, went to pick him up. Kerry's boat, returning to the scene, reached Rassmann about twenty yards before Chenoweth. Kerry picked up Rassmann. (p. 90-91)
f. When Chenoweth's boat left a second time to deliver the wounded PCF 3 crewmen to a Coast Guard cutter offshore, Kerry hopped in the boat, leaving to others the saving of the PCF 3. (p. 91)
g. The only injury Kerry possibly suffered in the event was a minor contusion of his arm. He was never bleeding from his arm. The minor shrapnel wound (tweezer-and-Band-Aid variety) Kerry attributed to the mine explosion was from earlier in the day when he set off the grenade in the rice cache. (p. 87-92)
22. Contrary to Kerry's assertion in his 1971 appearance on the Dick Cavett Show, he very quickly, if not immediately, sought reassignment to the U.S. after his third "wound." His request for reassignment had already reached the Navy Department in Washington by March 17, 1969. (p. 94)
ANTIWAR PROTESTER
1. Ted Kennedy helped to arrange Kerry's testimony with William Fullbright, an antiwar Senator who chaired the committee before which Kerry testified. In preparing his "testimony," Kerry recruited the assistance of Adam Walinksy, a speechwriter noted for his work with Robert Kennedy. (p. 99-103)
2. In that testimony, Kerry, a leader in the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, reported as credible the results of the VVAW's "Winter Soldier Investigation." The testimony taken during that "investigation" has been thoroughly debunked. For example, eleven who claimed to have been veterans had no record of having served in the U.S. military. Others who claimed to be veterans testified under false names, pretending to be people who actually had served in the military. The VVAW did not perform thorough background checks of those testifying, did not require sworn statements, and did not require independent corroboration of the testimony. Even Al Hubbard, the executive director of the VVAW, was shown to have lied about his rank, his service in Vietnam, and his alleged injury. When the Naval Criminal Investigative Service conducted a military inquiry into VVAW's allegations, the VVAW refused to cooperate. (p. 108-116, 125)
3. In 1970, while the U.S. was at war with North Vietnam, Kerry met privately in Paris with a leading representative of the Vietnamese Communists. (p. 126-129)
4. Kerry continued as a representative of the VVAW for nearly five months after he was aware that leaders of the VVAW were actively working and coordinating with the Vietnamese Communists. (p. 130-135, 158-159)
5. In a public speech on June 29, 1971, John Kerry described Ho Chi Minh, the founder of Vietnamese Communism, as "the George Washington of Vietnam." (p. 137)
6. Despite having denied it, Kerry was present at the November 1971 meeting of the VVAW in which Scott Camil proposed that the VVAW assassinate a group of U.S. senators who supported the war in Vietnam. (p. 140-143)
7. Kerry was in the Naval Reserves, and thus receiving pay from the Navy, until July 1972 when he went on Standby Naval Reserve. While a member of the Naval Reserves, Kerry met with the enemy in Paris, falsely accused the U.S. military of implementing a criminal military policy, advocated positions of the Vietnamese Communists, and gave speeches and testimony used by the enemy in their propaganda efforts. (p. 161-165)
8. Kerry is honored in Vietnam for his role in aiding the Vietnamese Communists. (p. 167-174)
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on April 19, 2007 02:19:32 PM new
Bronze Star
From Wikipedia: Kerry's Bronze Star has been criticized by former Swift boat commander Larry Thurlow. During the incident leading to the medal, Thurlow was in overall tactical command of five boats, including Kerry's. The incident began when one of the boats struck a mine. In 2004 Thurlow, along with two other SBVT members, alleged that Kerry's citation for bravery under fire is false because neither Kerry's boat nor any of the others was under hostile fire. In a sworn affidavit about the incident, Thurlow testified, "I never heard a shot." [18] Of the three boat commanders present besides Kerry and Thurlow, two are SBVT members who now claim that there was no hostile fire during the incident. But one of them was seriously wounded with a concussion and the other left the scene early on to accompany the wounded to safety. Only Kerry and Thurlow remained behind to work on damage control. [19] The other boat commander present, Don Droz, was later killed in action; however, his widow recalls Droz's account as being consistent with Kerry's. [20]
Several other witnesses insist that there was hostile fire during the incident. Jim Rassmann, the Special Forces captain Kerry rescued, wrote, "Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river...When I surfaced, all the Swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water." Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, PCF-94, stated, "I saw the gun flashes in the jungle, and I saw the bullets skipping across the water." Wayne Langhofer, who manned the machine gun on Don Droz's PCF-43, stated, "There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river." [21] Michael Medeiros, aboard PCF-94, recalled "a massive ambush. There were rockets and light machine gun fire plus small arms." Jim Russell, the Psychological Operations Officer of the unit, who was on PCF-43, wrote "All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach... Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river." [22]
Although it is not mentioned in Unfit for Command, Thurlow himself was awarded a Bronze Star for his actions during the same incident. Thurlow's citation includes several phrases indicating hostile fire such as "despite enemy bullets flying about him" and "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire", and speaks of fire directed at "all units" of the five-boat fleet. [23] Thurlow's medal recommendation, signed by Elliott, used the phrasing "under constant enemy small arms fire." Also unmentioned in "Unfit for Command" was the name Robert Lambert, Thurlow's chief petty officer who was the official eyewitness cited for Thurlow's Bronze Star recommendation, and who won his own Bronze Star for "courage under fire" for pulling Thurlow out of the water. Lambert still insists that the boats were receiving fire from the enemy. [24]
Thurlow claims that his Bronze Star citation (given to him after he had left the military) is in error. He now states that he noticed some errors when he received the citation in 1969 but saw no reason to try to correct the record. [citation needed]
Thurlow and others in SBVT claim that, although it normally would have been Thurlow's responsibility, Kerry wrote the after-action report upon which all the citations were based. However, Thurlow and Lambert's medal citations and the after action report contain considerable detail about the incident which would not have been visible to Kerry given his position across the river at the time, that Kerry could not have known (such as the exact minute Cmdr Elliot, aboard the LST, transmitted the request for helicopter support), or that took place after Kerry had left the scene. [25] [26]
The after-action report is initialed "KJW", who SBVT claims is Kerry. However, Kerry's initials are "JFK", and SBVT cites no reason why Kerry would have included a "W". These same initials "KJW" appear on other reports about events in which Kerry did not participate. [27] A Navy official stated to the New York Times that the initials referred, not to the author of the report, but to the headquarters staffer who received it. [28]
Furthermore, Kerry's base commander, Adrian Lonsdale, stated that according to the precedence he had set out in his operations order, Kerry would be the "only logical candidate" to write the report based on his length of service in Vietnam. However, Kerry actually had the least amount of time in Vietnam of any of the officers there that day (although Droz had arrived at Anthoi somewhat later than Kerry). [29]
In addition, SBVT claimed that the after action report for the incident was sent from the Coast Guard cutter where Kerry had received medical treatment, the USCGC Spencer [30], but relevant Navy documents indicate that the report was likely transmitted from a ship with a routing indicator that would apply to the LST Washtenaw County, where all nonevacuated officers who had served on the mission were berthed for the night [31][32][33].
Finally, beyond the medal citations, all U.S. Navy documents indicate hostile fire during the action. Kerry's boat (PCF-94) even received special recognition from Captain Roy Hoffmann on March 14 in his weekly report to his men; the report's description of hostile fire was not disputed at the time. [34] PCF-94 had major damage that had to be repaired before it could resume patrols. [35] Also, later intelligence reports confirm the presence of hostile forces, with six Viet Cong casualties from the incident. [36]
I submit that if John Kerry were Republican, your attitude would be a lot different.
posted on April 19, 2007 02:22:21 PM new
Instead of sing song chants, why not just respond with:
1) His CO didn't say that.
2) The decorations were not denied X times.
3) That splinter was a 2 X 4 through the chest and the corpsman lied.
4) His brother-n-law is right, and the 99% to 1 of guys in his unit are all liars. Evil neocons put up to an evil agenda by some unseen entity.
posted on April 19, 2007 02:33:49 PM new
Pure, unadulterated ignorance.
You nailed Kerry correctly.
Kerry has yet to release ALL his personnel records relating to his medals, in spite of his saying he would. What was available on his web site was only a partial release of those records.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on April 19, 2007 02:43:08 PM new
There were other commanders there who also received Bronze Stars for this incident. You don't think they deserved it either? Maybe they should have checked with you to see if the incident was medal-worthy. If it were up to me, everyone in the service would get a Bronze Star. My sources are bs, your sources were given to you by Moses. That long post of yours had no proof. The author couldn't think of any other explanations for the incidents he cited, so he must be right.
posted on April 19, 2007 02:47:09 PM new
"Pure unadulterated ignorance" is the crap that you copy pasted here, Bear. And, since you selected such crap to display, your capacity to understand and analyze the written word is in question.
Next time read the nonsense that you post and maybe, you too will see it as total BS. If not, then you may pin that ignorance label on yourself.
Are YOU a Bunghole?
as an officer in command under training. The overseeing officer on board was Lieutenant (now Rear Admiral) William Schachte. The two other crewmen were William Zaldonis and Patrick Runyon. (p. 35-36)