posted on May 19, 2007 04:48:24 PM new
How do they know what's in HIS heart?
Imo, they don't.
And again I see this as another double standard in regard to the US flag.
This is a private business....not public owned land. And he can't fly an American flag???? Nonsense.
Just like some homeowners assoc. tried to pass a law that home owners couldn't fly American flags on their own homes.
But they allow the flag to be BURNED...yep...that's FREE SPEECH protected. But let a patriot want to fly one on his business....and they'll OUTLAW it if they can. Yep....guess their 'free speech' once again ONLY works ONE WAY....theirs.
Council backs neighbors in flap, orders flag down.
Hummer dealership may challenge action
By DAVID McGRATH SCHWARTZ
REVIEW-JOURNAL
A 30-by-60-foot flag flies from a 100-foot-tall pole Thursday at Towbin Hummer on West Sahara Avenue. Neighbors don't like it.
Photo by Jeff Scheid.
Call it a show of patriotic pride. Or call it a crass red-white-and-blue marketing ploy.
Either way,the city of Las Vegas has ordered a Hummer dealership to take down an American flag that flies 100 feet above the business.
Dan Towbin, owner of Towbin Hummer, said he was in disbelief at the City Council's decision this week to require the business to take down the 30-by-60-foot Stars and Stripes that has flown since May 2006 in front of the dealership.
"It's ridiculous in today's day and age to suggest removing an American flag," he said.
Towbin must remove the flag within 60 days, though he said he was contemplating a lawsuit to challenge the council's unanimous action.
When Towbin originally got approval for his flag in May 2006, he agreed to a six-month review, contingent on complaints from neighbors of the dealership on Sahara Avenue near Lindell Road.
At Wednesday's City Council meeting, some residents showed up to complain about the noise from the flapping flag when the wind blows and the aesthetic effect of the looming flag pole.
At the meeting last year, Towbin employee Carl Marcello told the City Council that the dealership planned to build a memorial for military veterans at the base of the flag pole.
On Wednesday, council members and others questioned why Towbin had not built the memorial.
Steve Sanson, president of the locally based Veterans in Politics International, said he didn't believe the flag was about love of country but was instead intended to make the Hummer dealership a landmark.
"What disturbs us is the exploitation of veterans," said Sanson, a Marine in Desert Storm. The flag "is being used for selfish financial gain."
Wayne Earl, 80, who lives near the dealership, said he wasn't bothered by the noise like some of his neighbors but wanted it removed anyway.
"I like to see the flag flown. I don't like to see the flag used as a commercial draw," said the World War II veteran. "It should be flown reverently, not auspiciously."
Towbin insisted the flag is only about his patriotism.
"Whether my heart is in the right place, only I would know that," he said. "How would anyone else know that?"
He pointed to his involvement at Nellis Air Force Base where, he said, he is an honorary commander.
Towbin said the veterans memorial hasn't been built because he was waiting for the City Council's final approval of the flag.
A video of last May's City Council meeting shows Marcello, with Towbin standing next to him, telling the council that he understands they can review and order the flag pole removed after six months. Marcello then said the flag would be dedicated with a plaque and representatives from Nellis Air Force Base to coincide with the city's centennial celebration, which ended later that month.
The six-month review slipped through the cracks at City Hall, and it wasn't until recently that residents approached Councilwoman Lois Tarkanian to ask her about it.
Those for and against the flag's location lobbed accusations of un-Americanism at their opponents on Wednesday.
Towbin read a letter written by Joseph Esposito, president of Liberty Lock & Safe, next to the dealership.
The flag "fills my entire team of 55 employees with pride," Esposito wrote. "Any individual or group that would refer to this symbol of America as a nuisance, eyesore, or noisemaker should be looked at by the Department of Homeland Security to see where their sympathies lie."
Esposito, reached at his store Thursday, said he was "outraged" by the council's vote.
But Tarkanian, after extolling her love of the flag, told Towbin, "You're not doing this for the right reason."
Last May, Tarkanian had made a motion to allow Towbin to erect a 75-foot flag pole. But Towbin had said he had already bought the 100-foot pole and the flag. Tarkanian's motion failed 6 to 1.
Mayor Oscar Goodman then made the motion to allow Towbin to build the 100-foot-tall flag pole, with a six-month review.
"I would say publicly, whatever this body decides to do, I will live by it," Towbin said.
On Thursday, Goodman said he voted to take down the flag because the veterans memorial was not built.
Goodman said Towbin can reapply for a new flag pole.
The mayor also parried any accusations that the council's decision is unpatriotic by pointing to an ordinance passed under his watch that bans homeowners associations from prohibiting the flying of American flags.
But Alan Lichtenstein, general council for the American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada, said flags can't get any special treatment under the law.
"There can be reasonable time, place and manner restrictions," he said. "But there can't be special rules based on content."
Lichtenstein noted, however, that the city gives variances all the time, often inconsistently.
David Chesnoff, Towbin's attorney, said any potential lawsuit would argue that "the decision was arbitrary and capricious, and also because of the First Amendment implications, that you can't fly a flag you've been flying for a year."
This isn't the first run-in Towbin has had with the city over flags.
Just before Memorial Day in 2004, Las Vegas code enforcement ordered small flags flying from vehicles at the Prestige Infiniti dealership removed because they were "attention gaining devices."
Towbin said he continued to fly the flags on the cars, and the city backed off after the story got national attention.
==================
As usually happens WHEN ANY anti-American/anti-flag banning is being supported. American's still LOVE their flag.
Boy....this reminded me of a Blvd in San Jose where ALL the whole ROW of car dealerships PROUDLY flew the American flags....HUGE flags over their dealerships. It was on Capitol Blvd. for those who live near there.
And it was WONDERFUL to drive down that blvd. and it DID fill me with national pride and remind me of what our flag represents.
Is everyone on this council in LV a liberal???? lol lol
posted on May 19, 2007 06:59:06 PM new
Nope, you're wrong again, sybil.
It's not MY problem. It's GREAT that articles like this are getting out and being heard by more and more voters. Just to see how anti-American, anti-flag so many liberals are.
I'm sure George Washington wouldn't agree with your total disrespect of our flag either.
But then I'd never put you anywhere near his level of patriotism either. LOL
As the article notes in the LAST sentence....once the public gets news of this garbage....the anti-flag people BACK DOWN.
Imo, so they won't be seen as being offended by our flag, rather than being extremely PROUD of it.
"Towbin said he continued to fly the flags on the cars, and the city backed off after the story got national attention."
posted on May 19, 2007 08:17:35 PM new
OK, as I understand it you don't mind using the flag to sell cars but think people who find that offensive aren't patriotic?
You NEVER understand what I post. You twist it all to hell and back. THAT'S your MO. lol lol
how funny.
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
Whatever YOU need to fool yourself into believing.
Go BAIT someone else.
You're NEVER 'get' how other Americans can respect our flag....be PROUD of it...LOVE seeing it flown....where EVER anyone wants to fly it....with PRIDE.
But this must mean that since you didn't answer my question....in the opening post....then you "CAN'T ANSWER" it.
LOL LOL
After all.....what you try and apply to me MUST also apply to YOUR actions.....lack of answering MOST questions put to YOU, by anyone here. LOL
posted on May 19, 2007 08:53:14 PM new
I've already covered all that, sybil.
You've obviously missed it. LOL
What I wanted to point out...I have.
YOU would never understand those who WANT to fly our flag because they are very PROUD of it. Because you support BURNING IT.
That's all that matters to me. And yes, I personally feel that those like you, who would disrespect our flag by burning it....ARE anti-American/un-American.
And as an American....THAT is my right.
Least I can still legally call others un-American - for now.
IF the liberals ever get their way...it will be considered HATE speech and I'll go go JAIL for saying it.
That's NOT the America I want....and it's NOT the one MOST American's want to see either.
That was proven by the upset when all those mexicans were flying their OWN mexican flag....and American's let them know how they felt about that.
Would those mexicans be flying their flags in America if they weren't proud of their flag?
Would American's support their flag flying above ours? Nope.....
posted on May 19, 2007 09:10:30 PM new
You continue to mention that I 'speak for others'
lol
Yes, I do. I speak for all those I KNOW agree with my positions.
Like the MILLIONS of American's that give our flag the respect our founding fathers gave it.
So...you're correct. I realize I am NOT alone in my positions...I realize from reading those politicians that also support my positions....even though I usually am when amongst wacko liberals like yourself...helen....etc.when I'm here.
posted on May 20, 2007 11:54:20 AM new
God, Linda. A 30 x 60 flag???? Are you thinking that's inches, not feet? do you have any concept of how large that is?
Hey, buy it from the dealer; it'll probably cover your whole house; just cut holes for windows and doors. Show your godly patriotism.
Something that huge impacts a neighborhood in a huge radius--and it's not just the sight, it's the flapping sound from that 25-30 mph continuous wind in Vegas.
The city council I served on would never have allowed that intrusion into a neighborhood. Never. I see that Oscar Goodman, mafia lawyer whose wife served with me on a couple of committees while we lived in that town, first saw nothing wrong with a 100-foot flagpole--but has now changed his mind.
_____________________
There is more to life than increasing its speed. --Mahatma Gandhi
posted on May 20, 2007 01:47:17 PM new
Nobody said it's "in the middle of a neighborhood," Linda. But evidently there ARE neighbors:
"Wayne Earl, 80, who lives near the dealership, said he wasn't bothered by the noise like some of his neighbors but wanted it removed anyway."
I'd also be willing to bet that the enormous flag is a landmark which can be seen from anywhere in LV valley. Obviously, it was done as an in-your-face advertising gesture. To hide behind the US flag for monetary gain seems awfully cynical to me.
_____________________
There is more to life than increasing its speed. --Mahatma Gandhi
posted on May 20, 2007 05:22:17 PM new
I don't agree it's as obvious as you see it being.
No one knows what was/is in his heart. And I'll take HIS WORD for why he want it up.
If he was like most here....he never would have even THOUGHT of putting up a flag ....anywhere for that matter.
They don't value it in the same way others do.
And as the article notes....now that's its hit the public airways....it appears the council is backing down. No surpirse....few want to be 'against' displaying our flag.
posted on May 20, 2007 06:07:11 PM new
"" No surpirse....few want to be 'against' displaying our flag.""
So I guess his HEART told him what a good business ploy THAT would be.....he gets advertising from the flag you so worship and plus all that publicity.
He figures, " what the hell, they either stay up or get taken down and either way I make money!"
posted on May 20, 2007 06:25:22 PM newHey, buy it from the dealer; it'll probably cover your whole house; just cut holes for windows and doors. Show your godly patriotism.
I can see her peeking out looking for terrorists...... hahahahaha
posted on May 21, 2007 06:59:21 AM newThat's all that matters to me. And yes, I personally feel that those like you, who would disrespect our flag by burning it....ARE anti-American/un-American.
Last time I checked the USSC says flag burning is protected by the first amendment. So it would be an American right to burn it, if one chooses. Once again it is you that want to take away the rights that are granted by the Constitution. Now that is un-American. What else do you want to censor Linda?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on May 21, 2007 06:59:22 AM newThat's all that matters to me. And yes, I personally feel that those like you, who would disrespect our flag by burning it....ARE anti-American/un-American.
Last time I checked the USSC says flag burning is protected by the first amendment. So it would be an American right to burn it, if one chooses. Once again it is you that want to take away the rights that are granted by the Constitution. Now that is un-American. What else do you want to censor Linda?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
Are YOU a Bunghole?