posted on June 23, 2007 08:43:23 AM new
Roman Empire: gold standard of immigration
The ancient superpower could teach the U.S. a thing or two about a strong multicultural society.
By Cullen Murphy
June 16, 2007
YOU'VE SEEN the phrase a hundred times: "the world's longest boundary between a First World and Third World country." But hearing those words the other day, as the immigration bill seemed to be falling apart in the Senate, my thoughts turned not to the 2,000-mile border of the United States and Mexico but to ancient Rome's 6,000-mile border with … well, its border with everywhere.
There's a widespread view that the Roman Empire was swept away mainly by a relentless tide of hostile outsiders; we've all heard ugly references to the "barbarian hordes" in today's immigration debates. But the truth is that Rome was the world's most successful multiethnic state until our own — and history's longest lasting one, bar none.
So it's natural to wonder if the Romans might have anything to teach Americans. I'd argue that they do. One lesson is that the notion of "taking control of the borders" is overrated; borders were pliable then, and are even harder to define (or police) now. A second lesson is the importance of nurturing a national culture. It was the source of Rome's power, just as it is the source of ours.
Hadrian's Wall, which crosses the neck of Britain and marked the northern limit of the Roman Empire, gives the appearance of something built to deter an onslaught. That impression is misleading. The wall was not meant to be a Maginot Line; it was designed to be penetrated. It had gateways every mile to encourage traffic. Commerce moved both ways. You would have seen the same pattern at the borders of the empire along the Rhine and the Danube, and elsewhere on the frontier.
Americans today think of a nation's physical border as a static and even sacred sort of artifact — not quite as unchanging, say, as the path of the equator, but significantly more durable than the outlines of a Texas congressional district. Most historians, though, now see Rome's long imperial frontier as a dynamic zone where the interactions of different peoples had transformative repercussions on either side. The frontier, in other words, was a crucible, not a line in the sand.
And it's the same with us, for all the vigilantes grimly uncoiling barbed wire in the desert. What does "border" even mean? Global communications and electronic capital flows have brought borders into the fourth, fifth and nth dimensions. Hadrian's Wall today would have to be supplemented by Hadrian's Firewall.
American borders aren't quite where the map shows them, anyway. For national security purposes, they extend to the docks of Rotterdam and Hong Kong and as high as satellites in geosynchronous orbit. Some borders have simply disappeared. Consider the transnational revolution wrought by the ATM machine. For corporations, borders are a figure of speech.
If borders aren't a bulwark, then what is? Transported back to the Roman Empire, you would see something remarkably uniform from the Atlantic to the Euphrates, from Britain to North Africa. This was so even though the empire encompassed a wide variety of peoples, not all of whom had known their butter knives from their fish knives before coming under Roman rule.
The temples and baths of Londinium resembled those of Cordoba in Spain and Alexandria in Egypt. Roads and coins were uniform. Soldiers all wore something akin to dog tags (as did their horses). Even the statuary from place to place looked the same: At one time there were 20,000 statues of Caesar Augustus on view. All of this was just the physical embodiment of an underlying dynamic — a set of values and a way of life — that rapidly turned outsiders into insiders.
Rome's ability to assimilate newcomers is so well-established that it's easy to lose sight of. And it has been overshadowed, in the history books as well as in movies, by episodes of invasion and mayhem in the final centuries, when the empire's domestic health was already gravely compromised.
But the expansion of the empire to include tens of millions of non-Romans — and then the absorption through immigration of many millions more — was a bigger phenomenon still. Military service integrated some, but Romanization occurred without the help of other tools that Americans take for granted, such as public schools, mass communications, Madison Avenue or even a single language. (The strivers and elites spoke Latin and Greek, but the empire was polyglot.)
It took place because Roman civilization turned out to be a good deal. The historian Tacitus rather cynically recognized its power, observing that what Rome's subjects called "culture" was in fact what kept them in line.
The U.S., too, is an assimilation machine, though one whose efficiency we tend to doubt in the present, and to acknowledge only in hindsight. Looking back, we now know that the U.S. managed to accommodate the huge waves of immigration in the 1850s, the 1880s, the first decade of the 1900s and the 1980s — despite skepticism at each of those moments that it ever could. Every age doubts that it retains the absorptive capacity of ages past, just as every age fails to remember the human heartache and wrenching adjustments that past immigration entailed.
Or the utter determination. My father-in-law came to the U.S. from Mexico in 1920, in his mother's arms, and on his yellowing immigration papers there is the line "Mode of arrival" followed by the typed-in word: "rowboat." My children, now that I think about it, have the kind of ironic heritage that would have been commonplace on the Roman frontiers: One Mexican ancestor came north to the U.S. shortly after one Irish ancestor went south, with Gen. John J. Pershing, to fight Pancho Villa.
In the end, the example of Rome suggests that the most effective long-term stance toward the outside lies less in building walls than in strengthening the foundation of our own society — bolstering not just such tangible structures as education and healthcare and a government free of corruption but also intangible values such as equality, the entrepreneurial spirit and the principles of access and opportunity. If we take care of this, much else will take care of itself.
In the shadow of Hadrian's Wall, archeologists have pulled bits of Roman-era writing from the muck. Many of these scribblings were produced by soldiers who by birth were not Romans and preferred some German tongue. The Latin they wrote is clumsy. But it is Latin, real Latin.
Reading those fragments, I'm reminded of the cards passed out at a demonstration in Washington last year, when thousands of prospective immigrants united to say certain words, which were printed out phonetically. The cards read: "Ai pledch aliyens to di fleg / Of di Yunaited Esteits of America." It was a very American moment — and a very Roman one too.
CULLEN MURPHY was for many years the managing editor of the Atlantic Monthly and is now the editor at large of Vanity Fair. His most recent book is "Are We Rome?: The Fall of an Empire and the Fate of
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There is more to life than increasing its speed. --Mahatma Gandhi
posted on June 23, 2007 06:55:19 PM new
This is interesting,I learn something about the Roman army watching King Arthur,defeated enemy were drafted into the Roman army and serve far from home.
I am not good with Roman history,did some barbarians manage to sack Rome??
The Chinese built the Great Wall and it did not defend them from the Mongolian and the Manchurian,both tribes managed to establish themselves in central China.
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posted on June 23, 2007 07:53:46 PM new
The ancient superpower could teach the U.S. a thing or two about a strong multicultural society.
Well the Romans didnt have to pay health care costs for millions of illegal aliens or have those same illegal aliens send billions of $$$$$s a year back to their home countries.
PS, look at what happened to the Roman empire
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.George S. Patton
posted on June 23, 2007 08:17:08 PM new
Yes a couple of times.The one in the early 400's was the worst.It was the first time the Roman Army had been defeated in 800 years.This was the begining of "the dark ages" The History Channel had a 2 hour program on "the dark ages" a couple of months ago. I dont remember the dudes name,but he was up for promotion in the Roman Army and got passed over.He had a huss and hissy fit and went and got his own army.When he returned to Rome,he realized the city was to fortified to invade,so he did the next best thing and surrounded the city cutting off all supplies.He was going to starve them out,but it took a lot longer then he figured-almost 2 years(the man had patience.)
During the time the Romans carried on like nothing was happening-they knew they were safe from invasion,even if they couldnt get out.After a couple of years,when the food was getting very low,things started to get ugly.When they had the gladitor fights,the spectators wanted to eat the guy that died.Eventually things got so bad one of the higher ups said open the gates and let them in,as they really didnt have a choice.The army came in,ransacked the place,but the had to move on ,as there was hardly any food left.
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
[ edited by classicrock000 on Jun 23, 2007 08:20 PM ]
posted on June 23, 2007 08:32:06 PM new
Thats interesting.
I am sure the Roman bore the burden of the influx of people coming into its territory and provided some form of welfare for them as they assimilated into the society.
Jose,the guy who mowed my lawn for years has returned to Mexico due to eye disease.
I sometimes noticed while he was working ,that his eyes were red from the grass and the dirt and god knows what chemicals we put in the soil,I thought of suggesting that he wore something.
Now he is back in Mexico and his wife is taking care of him,his helpers are now taking over his truck and his tools,facing the same grass,dirt and chemicals on the ground.
Illegal immigrants do the work we shun,so if they are sick and use our medical resources,they earn it in some way.
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posted on June 23, 2007 08:47:13 PM new
PBS has a program called 'Barbarians ??' and I vaguely remember one of these barbarians invaded Rome and did a lot of damage.
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posted on June 24, 2007 07:10:27 AM new
Like you ???
Are you saying I am illegal and take any work I can and abused by my employer?
Just because you mow your own lawn,does not mean we all have to mow our own lawn.
But I do my own nails!
Boy,you are one shallow ignorant &&%%^^
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[ edited by hwahwa on Jun 24, 2007 07:23 AM ]
posted on June 24, 2007 07:22:11 AM new
Any advance society has some means of dealing with immigrants,the Roman,Greek etc have their ways and we have ours.
Many immigrants come here with their life savings and start a business ,they may not have insurance not because they want to get it free,because they never take out any insurance back in their own country .
So,when they are here ,they just go to a doctor in their own neighborhood and pay cash ,you figure the few hundred dollars worth of insurance premium we pay is enough for office visit and medication .
They dont think of catastrophe,they figure it wont happen to them.
Or in some cases,they just go back to their own country to be treated.
A US trained doctor practising in Chinatown here charges 35 dollars for a visit, a friend of mine who is on 16 medications went to see her,she just went down the list and told him,if he exercises,loses weight,avoids salt and grease,he would not need most of them.
Of course he does not listen,sometimes she will leave the office and walk by a restaurant,there he is ,eating salty,greasy food.
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posted on June 24, 2007 07:28:50 AM new
have seen lawn services and if their employees were immigrants they must've been from Sweden////////////
We have plenty of Eastern European immigrants here,may be they have cousins in Sweden.
They are plumbers,carpenters and electricians.
Many of our contractors subcontract work to Mexican American who employ Mexican immigrants.In fact I just inquire of putting up sprinklers for my lawn and the born in USA guy came and gave me 2 quotes-one from the company which put him on their payroll and another one run by him on the side with immigrant laborers.
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posted on June 24, 2007 07:48:02 AM new
"""Like you ???
Are you saying I am illegal and take any work I can and abused by my employer?
Just because you mow your own lawn,does not mean we all have to mow our own lawn.
But I do my own nails!
Boy,you are one shallow ignorant &&%%^^""""
Who's ignorant ?
I did not imply YOU were illegal I asked if the man who mows your lawn is ???? IS HE ??????
If he is than you are breaking the law by hiring an illegal because YOU, not ALL Americans, are too lazy to mow it yourself.
AND YES, illegals, NOT YOU, take any work they can get and take all the abuse they do BECAUSE they are illegal and are afraid to make waves.
That's WHY companies employ them !!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to know you can actually do your own nails!!! WOW! And you call ME shallow ????
posted on June 24, 2007 10:27:02 AM new
I never ask if Jose is legal or illegal,he did my lawn for 4 years and have a driver license and own his truck,should I ask to see his papers??
I gave him a raise a year ago,he never ask for one,I have a large cement patio in the back,so mowing my lawn is a no brainer,takes 10 minutes?
Some folks mown their own lawn,some prefer others do it,I have an electric one which does not work and is too heavy for me.
I would rather get one of those manual ones,i think they have one for sale at Home Depot.
My problem is that I dont know how to mown lawn,yes,there are people out there who dont know how to operate one ,if I can get a manual one,I may use it when my neighbors are not watching!
As for nails,I am just kidding,but I do wash some of my clothes by hand and hang them dry on a clothes line in my backyard,they dry in 10 minutes,saves on my electric bill.
I dont think all employers abuse illegal immigrants,if they do,they should be ashamed of themselves.
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