posted on August 3, 2007 08:29:27 PM new
Myles Spicer: A wake-up call for taxpayers
No individual is to blame for this havoc. But decline begins with tight fists, and that's where our state has been moving.
Myles Spicer
Published: August 03, 2007
As Gov. Tim Pawlenty clearly stated, the demise of the Interstate Hwy. 35W bridge was a catastrophe of the highest magnitude. And so it is. But this disaster should not come as a surprise to him -- or us; it is merely the chickens coming home to roost. In a sense, a self-fulfilling prophecy. A product of low-tax/no-tax attempts by narrow interest groups to persuade our citizens that we can run our government "on the cheap." We can't.
If we want needed services and the quality of life befitting our Minnesota heritage and tradition, it will take resources and support. In short: money and taxes. The I-35 disaster is merely one example of this maxim. Everyone knows that MnDOT's major source of funding is the gasoline tax. That is how we support our roads and bridges. That tax has not been raised since 1988, and is now lower than in most states. But when the Legislature tried to raise it a few cents, the low-tax/no-tax folks lobbied the governor to veto.
Obviously, the governor is not to blame for a bridge failing -- plenty of administrations before him failed as well. But what we do have here is a wake-up call to all caring Minnesotans that narrow, antitax special-interest groups are leading our state down a road of decline. We simply cannot run a progressive, enlightened, competitive state on the cheap.
The bridge tragedy is just one of many examples. This same erosion has taken place in our education system. Recent statewide test scores showed stagnant, and in some cases, decline in our students' reading and math skills. This is a shocking first for a Minnesota traditionally noted for its fine education resources. The message here: You cannot run a 21st-century education system on the cheap.
A similar decline has taken place in our economic status. Recent statistics show a decline in vital areas such as personal income and unemployment rates. This is all contrary to the failed claims made by the governor and his low-tax/no-tax ideologues. What businesses really need and demand in a global economy is a skilled, educated, motivated workforce; easy proximity to leading-edge technology; a quality of life that allows for accessible amenities; a well-developed transportation system, and other similar assets that can help a business grow. If low taxes were a driving force for business development, I would assume Mississippi would be garnering a vast inflow of companies. It is not. The lesson again: You cannot create a vibrant business climate on the cheap.
Finally comes quality of life. As a third-generation Minnesotan, for me this trumps all. And it is not a pleasant picture. My father, my children, my grandchildren all grew up in a state that gave us clean water, clean air, bountiful scenery, a great public education. That is the Minnesota I know and love. And it is in decline. Everything, from our vaunted longevity and health care to our lovely parks and wild areas, needs resources and caring if it is to be maintained. This again means: money. You cannot have a vibrant quality of life on the cheap.
No one "likes" taxes. Nor do I. But the low-tax/no-tax folks play off of this dislike by starving vital government activities, then proclaiming how ineffective and inefficient are government services. It is a calculated, self-inflicted, self-fulfilling prophecy. As concerned citizens who care about our fine state, we must not allow them to sell us this fiction. Indeed, the fact is we are no longer the high-tax state these groups try to characterize us as. Additionally, it is a truism that preventive measures always are cheaper (both in cost and human life) than repairing later damages -- as the I-35 nightmare proves.
Yes, the I-35 bridge disaster is truly a catastrophe of the highest magnitude. With that, Governor, I agree. Indeed, it has gained worldwide attention for its horror. But at the same time it should be a metaphor for future problems yet to come, if we continue to try to run our state on reduced resources, let alone grow it into something even more beautiful for the future.
It cannot be done on the cheap.
Myles Spicer, Minnetonka, is a retired ad agency owner.
For half a dozen years, the motto of state government and particularly that of Gov. Tim Pawlenty has been No New Taxes. It's been popular with a lot of voters and it has mostly prevailed. So much so that Pawlenty vetoed a 5-cent gas tax increase - the first in 20 years - last spring and millions were lost that might have gone to road repair. And yes, it would have fallen even if the gas tax had gone through, because we are years behind a dangerous curve when it comes to the replacement of infrastructure that everyone but wingnuts in coonskin caps agree is one of the basic duties of government.
I'm not just pointing fingers at Pawlenty. The outrage here is not partisan. It is general.
Both political parties have tried to govern on the cheap, and both have dithered and dallied and spent public wealth on stadiums while scrimping on the basics.
How ironic is it that tonight's scheduled groundbreaking for a new Twins ballpark has been postponed? Even the stadium barkers realize it is in poor taste to celebrate the spending of half a billion on ballparks when your bridges are falling down. Perhaps this is a sign of shame. If so, it is welcome. Shame is overdue.
At the federal level, the parsimony is worse, and so is the negligence. A trillion spent in Iraq, while schools crumble, there aren't enough cops on the street and bridges decay while our leaders cross their fingers and ignore the rising chances of disaster.
posted on August 4, 2007 08:10:04 AM new
First Alarm About Bridge Raised in 1990
Aug 3, 6:43 AM (ET)
By MARTIGA LOHN
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - It was 1990 when the federal government first issued an ominous label for the state's busiest bridge: "structurally deficient." In the ensuing years, inspectors found cracks and corrosion on the Interstate-35W bridge. They stepped up inspections from once every two years to every year, and made what they thought were the necessary repairs. They were convinced that the bridge had no safety issues at all.
Their actions have come under intense scrutiny since the 40-year-old bridge plummeted into the Mississippi River on Wednesday, killing at least four and injuring another 79.
The eight-lane I-35W bridge, which carried 141,000 vehicles a day, was in the midst of mostly resurfacing repairs when it buckled during the Wednesday evening rush hour.
National Transportation Safety Board chairman Mark Rosenker said his investigators got two big breaks Thursday with a surveillance video showing the collapse and a computer program that would analyze how the bridge failed. Those two things would speed their work and allow them to do a smaller reconstruction of part of the bridge span, rather than the whole thing.
Despite the powerful images of devastation from the collapse, some believed the design of the bridge reduced the death toll.
Joseph Schofer, professor of civil and environmental engineering at Northwestern University, said the bridge's underlying arch truss stopped heavy pieces of steel from falling onto vehicles when the cars plunged into the water.
Gov. Tim Pawlenty responded Thursday by ordering an immediate inspection of all bridges in the state with similar designs, but said the state was never warned that the I-35W bridge needed to be closed or immediately repaired.
"There was a view that the bridge was ultimately and eventually going to need to be replaced," he said. "But it appears from the information that we have available that a timeline for that was not immediate or imminent, but more in the future."
Authorities cautioned not to read too much into the "structurally deficient" tag. The designation means some portions of the bridge needed to be scheduled for repair or replacement. It wasn't a candidate for replacement until 2020.
During the 1990s, inspections found fatigue cracks and corrosion in the steel around the bridge's joints. Those problems were repaired. Starting in 1993, the bridge was inspected annually instead of every other year.
After a study raised concern about cracks, the state was given two alternatives: Add steel plates to reinforce critical parts or conduct a thorough inspection of certain areas to see if there were additional cracks. They chose the inspection route, beginning that examination in May.
"We thought we had done all we could," Dorgan told reporters near the mangled remains of the span. "Obviously something went terribly wrong."
The collapsed bridge's last full inspection was completed June 15, 2006. The report shows previous inspectors' notations of fatigue cracks in the spans approaching the river, including one four feet long that was reinforced with bolted plates.
Although concern was raised about cracks, some experts theorized it's no coincidence the collapse happened when workers and heavy equipment were on the bridge. The construction work involved resurfacing and maintenance on guardrails and lights, among other repairs.
"I would be stunned if this didn't have something to do with the construction project," said David Schulz, director of the Infrastructure Technology Institute at Northwestern University. "I think it's a major factor."
Raising taxes, as is ALWAYS the liberals FIRST solution to everything, nor ending the Iraqi war....lol..lol...would have kept this bridge from collapsing. PERIOD.
As other articles have pointed out even IF gasoline taxes HAD been raised....it doesn't mean/quarantee that they would have been spent on a bridge that was NOT found to be 'unsafe'.
posted on August 4, 2007 09:20:22 AM newWatch out.....mingo and helen are again posting MORE deceptions. Typical liberals.
According to what they'd LIKE you to be ignorant enough to believe is that it's President Bush's fault this happened. WHEN each state makes the decisions on how their highway funding will be spent/where it will be allotted. NOT a US President. DUMB.
Then they love pointing out how TERRIBLE it was for the proposed $.05 gasoline tax to be vetoed. By a BIG BAD republican. lol lol IF the increase HAD been passed....this bridge collapse wouldn't have happened.
IF we were fighting terrorism and were spending all that money on domestic issues....then this wouldn't have happened. Even though NO ONE was told it was in such bad shape it might collapse. They should have been able to see the future and KNOW it was going to happen.
Well....anyone who actually does a tiny bit of researching....would KNOW that Minnesota was running a $2.1 SURPLUS - so a tax INCREASE wasn't necessary....they HAD the money to spend. But the liberal way is to DECEIVE and imply that IF that terrible republican had not vetoed the tax increase.....then maybe this bridge wouldn't have collapsed.
WATCH what the liberals say.....they're VERY dishonest most of the time....and they want to raise taxes whether there is a NEED for it or not. tsk tsk tsk
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Liberals Still Blaming Republicans For Every Tragedy
I have the unfortunate pleasure of working in an office which is comprised of mostly liberal democrats, as such I hear first hand their off the wall, sometimes borderline insane opinions. When speaking about Republicans, wether they be moderates or far right conservatives, the same phrases always follow the inevitable finger pointing.. “they should have” or “they should not have”. In the event of a tragedy, wether it be due to natural causes, or failure in a manmade structure, the response in how the tragedy could have been avoided is simple. Money!
Those on the far left have strayed so far off course from the reality of what America is, and should be, they have forgotten the principles which made us a world power to begin with. The ideas of hard work, and self reliance have begun to fade away, being replaced by dependence on the government for our well being. Those dependency issues only heighten when a tragedy occurs, and inevitably the cries for bigger government are heard from the left.
The recent collapse of the Interstate 35W bridge in Minneapolis is no exception to that rule. Almost immediately following the news of the collapsed bridge, liberals jumped at the chance to use innocent deaths to demand a bigger government. Those lovable loons at the Daily Kos had this to say:
A tragedy courtesy of politicians who, in their own ways, follow Grover Norquist’s dictum of reducing government until it’s small enough to drown in the bathtub. And of passing out massive tax cuts, mostly to people who need them least.
The Star Tribune echoed that theology:
For half a dozen years, the motto of state government and particularly that of Gov. Tim Pawlenty has been No New Taxes. It’s been popular with a lot of voters and it has mostly prevailed. So much so that Pawlenty vetoed a 5-cent gas tax increase - the first in 20 years - last spring and millions were lost that might have gone to road repair. And yes, it would have fallen even if the gas tax had gone through, because we are years behind a dangerous curve when it comes to the replacement of infrastructure that everyone but wingnuts in coonskin caps agree is one of the basic duties of government.
I doubt anyone would disagree with that last statement, one of the basic duties of the government is our nations infrastructure. When a bridge collapses it is undoubtedly caused by the negligence or sheer incompetence of the government to take preventative measures, and to that extent I am in agreement with liberals.
Where my philosophy makes a sharp right turn from those at the Daily Kos and other liberal hangouts, is I do not believe these failures in government have anything to do with taxes being too low.
Neal Boortz has an excellent article today outlining the true failures, and I’ll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with low taxes:
At the time when Governor Pawlenty vetoed this 5-cent gas tax increase, the state of Minnesota already had a $2.1 billion budget surplus. This surplus came from over-taxation.
He then details some of the “pork projects” which Minnesota felt deserved funds rather than fixing their infrastructure:
The state bailout of the Minneapolis Teacher’s Retirement Fund, which puts state taxpayers on the hook for $972 million in unfunded liabilities
$34 million in subsidies to ethanol producers that have seen a 300 percent increase in profits in the last year
$30 million for bear exhibits at the Minnesota and Como Zoos
$1 million for a replica Vikings ship in Moorhead It is a wonder how liberals can attempt to blame low tax rates as the cause for the bridges failure, when the State is running a budget surplus!
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posted on August 4, 2007 09:25:11 AM new
I read this in one of the bridge articles;
“We certainly have aging infrastructure here in the United States ... but I do believe that American highways and bridges are safe,” Peters said. “But certainly we need to look to the future and make sure that we are spending our money where we need to be spending the money.”
It makes me think back to my visit to our local Costco about 2 months ago. I walk up and see the County Fire & Rescue squad loading up PALLETS of large Plasma TVs. HMMM....are they helping a local establishment or what. But then I think...well if I needed something hauled, should I call them? I went inside and asked a clerk, what's going on we all the TVs? Come to find out that they purchased $20K & $30K worth of $1600 TVs. WHAT? they are being used in the new Public Safety Building.
This is a small town, I can just imagine what is happening NATIONWIDE. I know for sure that I could walk EVERY INCH of that public safety building that a REGULAR citizen would have access to, and NOT SEE one TV. But I still get those phone calls to donate $20 to the Firemans or POLICE fund. SAD SAD SAD!!!
posted on August 4, 2007 09:37:38 AM new
Welcome - rhpepsi
===============
What I found funny was reading Rush today, making NOTE that voters should be paying attention that these incidents happen in democratically controlled states. lol
Katrina and now Minn. But who do they blame? lol lol Certainly NOT their OWN decision making skills.
Democrats Exploit Bridge Collapse, Blame Bush, Tax Cuts, War in Iraq
He also quotes all the dems who have joined in on blaming everything from the President to the war in Iraq for being the cause our infrastructure is in the shape it is.
posted on August 4, 2007 09:59:35 AM new
Hello Linda.
First time I have been on here. Seems there are several posters with different views.
I was kind of shocked to see the number of bridges that fall below the standards. Also shocked a little when I found out how many I usually drive across.
posted on August 4, 2007 10:06:16 AM new
I agree...it's certainly a wake up call for all of us. NO American would accept that they need to drive on unsafe bridges. There are no acceptable reasons for that to be the case.
But some use everything to made their partisan jabs.....while deceiving voters about how a party that doesn't support the same tax increases for EVERYTHING that they support, is to blame.
And yes, there are many differing opinions on most of the issues here - as there are everywhere.
posted on August 4, 2007 10:17:54 AM new
The latest around here (Virginia) is the ruling about our TRAFFIC CIVIL FEES. They ruled them unconstitutional because to charge $3,000 to a VIRGINIAN for reckless driving when a person from Maryland would only get the normal fine was violating the EQUAL RIGHTS. These high fees were gonna help "rebuild roads"....hmmm.
posted on August 4, 2007 10:27:50 AM new
It goes without saying that bridge integrity is a function of government and as such, bridge collapse from lack of maintenance is a failure of government...whether by misuse of funds, not enough funds or incompetence.
Having said that, I don't believe that the investigation into the cause should be a political head hunting operation with only a focus on politics. With 70,000 bridges now rated as structurally poor or deficient an answer is vital.
posted on August 4, 2007 10:35:57 AM new
now that they have "opened the can of worms" by actually listing the sub-standard bridges, it is going to put even more stress on the "better" bridges. If people had known about the MINN bridge, the one next to it would have suffered more traffic probably. Is it the government is afraid we will panic or what. Why not be truthful and upfront, instead of waiting for something tragic to happen...and say ...oops, we knew about it, who can we fire for this!
posted on August 4, 2007 10:39:09 AM new
Linda_K
posted on August 4, 2007 09:20:22 AM
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Watch out.....mingo and helen are again posting MORE deceptions. Typical liberals.
According to what they'd LIKE you to be ignorant enough to believe is that it's President Bush's fault this happened. ""
For friggin' once could you just comment WITHOUT LYING!??????
I NEVER SAID IT WAS BUSH'S FAULT.
READ the OP!
I NEVER blamed the Repugs and neither did the author of the OP!
Can't you ever just R E A D first and shoot off your fat mouth later!
Do I think my taxes could be better spent on AMERICANS...YOU BET!!!!!!!!
posted on August 4, 2007 10:39:38 AM new
Because, from everything I've read to this point...they weren't made aware there was the chance this might happen.
No one would be worried IF they hadn't been warned this was a possiblity.
Imo, what needs to be looked at is HOW these inspectors made the evaluations that they do. Maybe new standards will be required.
posted on August 4, 2007 10:53:18 AM new
Of course Helen is still clueless. I crossed that bridge upwards of 20 times a week. I can state that maintanence was being done on that bridge regularly. For Helen to even comment shows how much of a witch she really is.
How about commenting on the incredible recovery efforts being done and coordinated by our strong Republican Govenor? New Orleans needs to take note. Dumbazzes like Nagen and Blanco need to take notes on what to do with disasters like this one. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE OFFICIALS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE SITUATION AT HAND.
Now to respond to the money being spent. The fact is Minnesota is spending a record amount of money on it's Highway system as we speak. We have the un-weave the weave project. A multi-billion project. We have the 35W-crosstown project. Just finished the 494 corridor and the northern Hwy 100 projects. The Highway 36 re-construction project. Just to name a few of the major ones.
All of these projects were deemed as higher priority on the highway repair lists. Yes, we do have many more projects that will need to be done. And they will. But it all takes time.
One more important note. With all of the construction we have going on at this time, it will be likely that a construction project that is in the process of being done may have to get postponed. There are only so many people that actually do road construction, and right now, they are opperating at full capacity and then some.
But idiots like Helen and mingopig will never get it. First they say cut funding for roads to fund education. Now they have flip flopped. Now they want to cut education to fix roads. They continue to talk out of their collective rear ends. Thank god we have a leader like Tim Palenty to see our state through this.
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If it's called common sense, why do so few Demomorons have it?
posted on August 4, 2007 11:34:38 AM new
And just for the record....and the many uninformed liberals here:
"White House deputy press secretary Scott Stanzel, accusing the Democrats of using the bridge collapse for partisan purposes, said Bush had increased funding for federal highways by about 30 percent during his administration."
80% of highway funding comes from the feds. But the STATES make the decisions on what their priorities are for how it will be used.
posted on August 4, 2007 11:57:44 AM new
No, helen. It's you OWN lack of understanding when FACTS, rather than yours and mingo's DECEPTIVE opinions are posted.
LOL, Linda. To suddenly pass yourself off as a purveyor of facts and not a promulgator of lies will require a super human dilligence.
Too funny!.
rhpepsi,
When you mentioned the high cost plasma television that were being installed in your county it remined me of our high cost school signs.
In my neighborhood all schools, elementary, middle and high schools have installed programable electric signs with several rows of continuously moving message areas. So, the information that was previously sent home with the children via printouts is now presented for everyone's viewing pleasure on the side of the road.
I am certainly in favor of more money for education but these signs appear to be the result of an inside deal with someone in the business of making a profit on signs and of no value whatsoever to children who attend the schools or the teachers who deserve a raise.
posted on August 4, 2007 12:56:04 PM new
So what your saying Helen is you don't favor the public being involved with education.
That is why the demomorons will never really be for education. It is not only the responsibility of our educators to educate, but the responibility of the rest of the public to educate as well. When you have a clue, please post it. Otherwise, put a cork in it.
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If it's called common sense, why do so few Demomorons have it?
posted on August 4, 2007 01:22:41 PM new
I give you liberals FACTS all the time helen. Just because you and mingo, along with everyother looney liberal would like to make this incident all about partisan lies...is your problem, not mine.
Deception never works....someday you MIGHT learn that....although I have my doubts.
=================
More FACTS:
"[i]Earlier in the day, U.S. Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., said state officials should have better used money made available in the 2005 federal highway bill, which increased federal funds to Minnesota by 46 percent."
posted on August 4, 2007 01:49:01 PM new It's clear that neither Mingo nor I made this thread about politics. Only you did that. I'm sure that we could use facts in a similar way but we chose not to do that. The condition of bridges has deteriorated over a period of years and for that reason it's non productive to take stabs at current politicians. This is a serious problem which must be investigated as soon as possible without regard to whether the culprit is a Democrat or a Republican.
It is simply funny that you caution not to make partisan jabs and then immediately you make one yourself
A jab is a jab whether based loosely on a fact or not. Partisan simply means a favored politician and we all know who you worship. Expand your horizons a bit and think about the safety of bridges.
posted on August 4, 2007 02:04:49 PM new
"It is clear"....
ROFLMHO......no, that's NOT at ALL clear.
Go back to defending your dailykos website. You LIVE in a different world than most. And be sure and be TRUTHFUL about what he said when those four contractors were hanging on the bridge in Iraq, helen. Tell others how 'bad' he felt about THEM. NOT!!!
I still have not found the time to go to the Public safety building yet...maybe I should take some popcorn and soda tomorrow and see if I can watch the Nascar race there.
I have dealt with high tech surveillance and I DO NOT understand for what use these TVs would be for. Even for training purposes, a WALLYWORLD SONY 34" would save taxpayers a heck of a lot more money then the $1600 plasmas.
posted on August 4, 2007 03:19:16 PM new
Linda_K
posted on August 4, 2007 09:20:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch out.....mingo and helen are again posting MORE deceptions. Typical liberals.
According to what they'd LIKE you to be ignorant enough to believe is that it's President Bush's fault this happened. WHEN each state makes the decisions on how their highway funding will be spent/where it will be allotted. NOT a US President. DUMB.
Then they love pointing out how TERRIBLE it was for the proposed $.05 gasoline tax to be vetoed. By a BIG BAD republican. lol lol IF the increase HAD been passed....this bridge collapse wouldn't have happened.""
( Nick Coleman SPECIFICALLY STATES that it may have fallen ANYWAY. Linduh is LYING AGAIN or just can't comprehend the written word !!!)
"""IF we were fighting terrorism and were spending all that money on domestic issues....then this wouldn't have happened. Even though NO ONE was told it was in such bad shape it might collapse. They should have been able to see the future and KNOW it was going to happen."""
(YES THEY SHOULD HAVE IT'S THEIR JOB!!!!!)
"""Well....anyone who actually does a tiny bit of researching....would KNOW that Minnesota was running a $2.1 SURPLUS - so a tax INCREASE wasn't necessary....they HAD the money to spend. But the liberal way is to DECEIVE and imply that IF that terrible republican had not vetoed the tax increase.....then maybe this bridge wouldn't have collapsed.
WATCH what the liberals say.....they're VERY dishonest most of the time....and they want to raise taxes whether there is a NEED for it or not. tsk tsk tsk"""
Your post is a deceptive, garbled, lying, partisan, piece of uneducated garbage!
Myles Spicer and Nick Coleman know a heil of a lot more about Minnesota than YOU DO!
The people they blame are the America-hating, selfish, whiny babies, LIKE YOU, who want to live for FREE with no responsibility to their country!
People like YOU who are scared to death a penny will go to the poor, the victims of disasters, the elderly, the children, those who didn't have your advantages.
YOU who think making America weak is somehow a good thing if YOU don't have to spend a penny. The only dime YOU want to spend is to kill anyone other than yourself, give big corporations and the ultra wealthy huge tax breaks because THOSE entities scare the crap out of you.
posted on August 4, 2007 03:32:10 PM new rhpepsi Maybe I could persuade my local Maryland school to advertise the Free plasma TV viewing of the Nascar races available right over the river in Virginia.
posted on August 4, 2007 04:04:56 PM new
No, it's NOT their job, sybil.
It's the government agencies/organizations that have the responsibility to INFORM those in power as to the conditions of our bridges.
Now some whiny liberal who wanted money when there was already a HUGE surplus put towards MORE gasoline taxes and he blames the gov. for his veto. Which, imo, was MORE than justified.
Same thing happened in N.J. They also had a huge surplus and the liberals raised their taxes any way.
It's the liberal way.
====
And there are approx. 607,000 bridges in American. ONE has failed and the left uses it for convincing people they NEED to raise taxes. Rather than putting the monies they get in the RIGHT places.
They have been irresponsible in their duties.
I can hardly wait for the government to show us just how inept they can handle our health care....should the 'socialist national health care plan' ever be enacted.
They won't be doing THAT much better than they've handled THIS....or most entitlement programs they currently operate.
Since we DON'T KNOW why it collapsed....might have had more weight on it at that time of day than it was built to hold. As one Minn agency it might have just been an anomaly.
Might have been a hundred different reasons...but idiots like you, mingo, have to post op-eds where another fool wants to put the blame, in a partisan manner, against republicans who want to REDUCE the taxes we pay.....NOT increase them when there are SURPLUS'.
Are YOU a Bunghole?