posted on March 18, 2008 10:04:56 AM new
I read his speech. Unfortunately, I think the damage has already been done. It's difficult to shake off. The minister's speech was just awful. While I don't hold Obama responsible for the words or actions of others, I'm not sure how easily the rest of America will forget. Geesh, they still bring up Clinton and Monica after all these years (she says lightheartedly).
posted on March 18, 2008 11:10:16 AM new
Hi, Helen. I worked on Hillary's campaign. However, I will support whomever gets the DNC nomination. There are just things that don't sit right with me about Obama. I actually asked one of my clients at CFIT who opening supports Obama and who happens to be African American why she was supporting him. I really want to know what people see that I perhaps don't. Her answer was "because he's black" (her words, not mine). Not because of anything he's done or said. Just because he's black. That's about as awful a reason as not voting for him because he's black and lends credence to what Geraldine F said. Mistakingly I told her so. She's rather mad at me right now.
Sadly, I really think the minister's words did permanent damage. The media is not going to let it go.
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Mar 18, 2008 11:11 AM ]
Cheryl, you are right that the media will not let it go and that's ALL media...not just fox news. If Obama is the Democratic candidate his character will be mercilessly assassinated by conservative and corporate owned media just as they lied and slandered the character of Al Gore and John Kerry.
I just hope that the American public is not deceived this time.
posted on March 18, 2008 12:21:04 PM new
Profe--you said it. I was mesmerized. The content of his speech was meaningful, appeared to be absolutely sincere and opened a dialogue for these issues. Many people have opinions on these issues, but few have expressed them openly. He's my man!
The content of his speech was great, but listening to Obama, rather than reading it cannot be beat.
[ edited by coach81938 on Mar 18, 2008 12:22 PM ]
posted on March 18, 2008 12:40:11 PM new
Cheryl, I am sure there are plenty of African-Americans who will vote for Obama just because he is black. I am sure there are plenty of women who will vote for Hillary because she is a woman. I am sure there are plenty of 70 year old white men who will vote for McCain because he is a 70 year-old white man. That is human nature. I beieve that the majority of voters will vote for the candidate who best reflects their philosophy and their idea of competence.
posted on March 18, 2008 03:21:46 PM new
Coach - I know you are right. It's just what you described is irresponsible voting and I just hate that. I've raised my children to look at the issues and choose a candidate that best reflects what they want. If it's McCain, then they have my blessings. I may shudder, but they have my blessings. Fortunately, my children are both solid democrats.
posted on March 18, 2008 06:29:14 PM new
Hi Cheryl, I agree with you 100%. In a perfect world, we would all vote responsibly and on the issues, instead of for the most handsome, the richest, the most connected. We need these responsible voters now, more than ever.
Oh yeah--and thanks for your 2 responsible Democrats. We need all we can get!
[ edited by coach81938 on Mar 18, 2008 06:30 PM ]
posted on March 18, 2008 07:33:55 PM new
Stunning????
He said NOTHING. Oh, wait, he's against slavery.
It's like the coach at halftime. Rah, rah, make 'em feel good. But it says nothing.
And Cheryl's right ask ANYBODY why they're voting for him and they'll say "because he's something new". He has said nothing but the old standard, "bring the boys home", which the campaign worker who quit said was not going to happen. That might be a "lie". The top 3 reasons why someone will vote for him are still:
posted on March 18, 2008 07:44:19 PM new
Cheryl, I have mixed feelings on this one. If your friend is my age or older, she remembers when Afro-Americans had to fight for an education equal to whites, when they had to fight for a seat in the front of a bus, for the right to use the nearest water fountain. The idea that an Afro-American in her lifetime may be president must invigorate her and give her hope that her time has come. The same can be said of women, of course, but somehow I can't get that emotionally attached to Hillary, which may be her major problem. I think the minister's comments will have little effect on Obama after his brilliant speech.
posted on March 18, 2008 07:59:10 PM new
"He said NOTHING. Oh, wait, he's against slavery."
If that is all you got out of the speech, your attetion span must be miniscule. Or you have selective hearing. When was the last time you heard any politician talk openly about race problems? No rhetoric, no flourishes, no cliches. I guess you are not used to that.
And after the previous 8 years, "something new" is not a bad reason to vote for someone.
posted on March 18, 2008 09:03:29 PM newIf that is all you got out of the speech, your attetion span must be miniscule.
I'd bet a paycheck he didn't watch more than the first two minutes. The opening paragaraphs were about the abolition of slavery, they were prelude to the speech and nothing more. Didn't say anything?
For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.
We can do that.
But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.
The idea that this man wrote this speech and trusted that the American people were capable of hearing and understanding him is stunning. I really believe he thinks we are capable of understanding more than saber rattling sound bites and hedging. This speech contains more thought, more emotion, more intellect than any of Hillary's dodging, any of McCain's more of the same and without question any of the mangled, written by somebody else mumblings that ever came out Bush's mouth.
edit to add: Hi Cheryl! Stick around!
[ edited by profe51 on Mar 18, 2008 09:05 PM ]
posted on March 19, 2008 03:33:13 AM new
Can't sleep, so I'm reading this thread. I too found Obama's speech mesmerizing. And--did he have speech notes there on the podium? I never saw him once look down. He is the best political speaker this nation has.
_____________________
posted on March 19, 2008 04:18:55 AM newHow about anything?
You missed the point. This wasn't a political talking points speech, it was a speech that specifically addressed the issue of race that was bound to come up with his candidacy and which was exacerbated by inflammatory comments made by his former pastor. It was widely advertised that that was the sort of speech it was going to be.
I guess if McCain said in the media for several days that he was going to speak about the issue of his age, and then gave a speech about the issue of his age, and I was thinking he should talk about the war, I could say he "didn't say anything".
posted on March 19, 2008 04:56:33 AM new
roadsmith - And that's what bothers me. Reagan was also an eloquent speaker. Anyone can be a good speaker that really means very little. I once had to give a speech at an Eastern Stars meeting. The speech was two pages long. I memorized the entire thing because I was not allowed to have any notes to refer to. I got comments from many, many people about what a good speaker I am. I've also given speeches at political events with the same comments.
I heard the "s" word in his speech, which I'm really tired of hearing. That was over 100 years ago and it's time to put it to bed. Many, many groups of people were slaves throughout history. It's not just an African American thing. They haven't cornered the market on that or discrimination. I'm willing to bet women are discriminated against more throughout the world than African Americans, although African Americans are discriminated against more in this country. My family did not ever own slaves at any time in our history. Yet, I'm held responsible by some simply by virtue of being white. Discrimination exists on both sides of the fence. I see it every single day where I live. Getting rid of it is a daunting task. Maybe it will never go away and it will be something we'll have to learn to live with. I hope not.
I hope this doesn't sound racist, because I have a habit of judging people by what they do and not what they look like. I have black friends, Hispanic friends, Jewish friends, drag-queen friends and gay friends. Some are pretty and some are God-awful homely. Some are religious and believe in God, some are not and some are even Wiccans. It simply doesn't matter to me what you are on the outside or what religion you practice or what your personal sexual preference is. It matters to me what you are on the inside, how you treat others and how you affect the world around you. Heck, I even have some republican friends.
That's my rant for the day. Now, I have work to do. I really can't wait until November.
posted on March 19, 2008 05:03:20 AM new
Just as Profe said, this speech was made specifically to address Pastor Wright's remarks and the race issue in general. The race issue has been lurking in this campaign since the inception and it was time to address it. If you want to hear Obama speak on issues such as Iraq and the economy, stay tuned. I understand he has speeches on those subjects coming over the next few days.
posted on March 19, 2008 05:09:47 AM new
Thanks, Coach. I'll listen to them. I still think that he and Hillary are the dream team and it's a shame that neither of them really see that. Well, I think Hillary does, but neither of them are willing to take the VP spot. The petty squabbling between the two have to stop unless they want to hand the election to McCain. I already know two people who have switched to McCain because of the democrats squabbling over everything, particularly Florida and Michigan.
Sadly, I am hearing reports on many different stations where people can call in and most think that, while his speech was moving, it simply wasn't enough. The damage has already been done. Remember Kerry and the Swiftboat ads. That damage was permanent. I really hate to see anyone's rep being destroyed by the actions of another.
posted on March 19, 2008 05:26:03 AM new
Cheryl, I understand your points. We are all tired of the race issue being brought up over and over. But, it is the elephant in the room and can't be ignored. Obama talked about the mindset of black folks in Pastor Wright's age group. They experienced racism first hand--sitting in the back of the bus, separate entrances, separate water fountains, inferior schools (not much change there)lynchings and so much other horrendous, degrading and humiliating treatment. It is understandable that there is bitterness. It is hard to forget that kind of racism.The comedian, Chris Rock, once said that the most racist group of people are older black men--the bit was very funny, but there is a lot of truth in this. Black men bore the brunt of racism.
Obama also said that people who feel like this need to understand that America is not static. We have a long way to go, but we have made progress. If we keep speaking the way Obama did, acknowledging the resentments of both whites and African-Americans, it can only help.
posted on March 19, 2008 05:36:41 AM newIf we keep speaking the way Obama did, acknowledging the resentments of both whites and African-Americans, it can only help.
I am glad that he mentioned the resentment on both sides. I live in the inner city. Here I am the minority. In the last 7 years, I've seen my once nice neighborhood fall into decline. I've watched as the drug dealers, thugs, car theft rings and even murderers have moved in, pushed here because the city of Cleveland is building multi-million dollar homes in once impoverished African American areas. They've turned my area into the slums. I've watched some great African American neighbors and friends leave because African American thugs have moved in. They moved here in the first place to get away from that. It's a fact as harsh as those words sound. Homes are being broken into for the copper piping. You can be at work and come home to a flooded home with no piping left. Unfortunately, the vast majority of criminals in my neighborhood are African American. I blame the economy. However, there are many white and Hispanic families here facing the same poverty, yet they are committing no crimes. Ken hasn't had steady work since November. I'm not making much of anything either. We've taken on what we can to make our mortgage and our car payments. The difference is, we choose to make our money legally. I sometimes work three or four different jobs at a time. I have to work from home because we're afraid to leave our home for too many hours. We can't move because the houses here no longer sell. We only owe $15,000 on our house. Why should be walk away from it?
Let Obama address that. Martin Luther King preached rising above all of that. It would appear, at least around here, that his words have gone unheard. People around here resent African Americans not because of the color of their skin, but because 99% of the crimes committed here are committed by African Americans. Something needs to change or we'll never go forward.
And the circle stands unbroken. . .
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Mar 19, 2008 05:39 AM ]
Frankly, I am sick and tired of the media negative speculation on a speech that will go down in history along with that of Martin Luther King. And I am sick and tired of Hillary Clinton's political focus untempered by any regard for this good Democrat. After the speech she FINALLY made a statement that she had not read the speech. Well, THAT failure alone makes her an unacceptable candidate.
Her propensity to focus on political expediency without regard for right action ... letting this issue slide makes her nothing but a mindless politician who maneuvers and like Lieberman and McCain a Republican ass kisser extraordinaire.
I have a dream, a dream that would undoubtedly be shared by Martin Luther King and that dream is that Barack Obama will be our next president.
posted on March 19, 2008 06:04:55 AM new
I am hopeful that the dream will be reality come November. The Hillary machine is still chugging along and, until the convention, I will be holding my breath.
posted on March 19, 2008 06:24:36 AM new
Helen - I have to agree. I do find it inexcusable that she didn't listen or read his speech. As I stated above, the squabbling between the two of them has to stop if the democrats are going to take the White House back in November.
I'm sick of the media, too. However, it's a sad fact that most people pay close attention to the media and believe what they are being told (could in part explain Bush's win in the last election). IMHO, it's much like picking up a National Enquirer at the grocery store and believing what you read in it.
Edited to add: While on the subject of media, I have a very close friend who will spend an entire evening watching every cable news show. He switches back and forth. He does this because he believes somewhere within the biased newscasts, is the truth. He's determined to find it. I often wonder if newscasters and reporters have to reveal their political affiliates before they are hired.
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Mar 19, 2008 06:38 AM ]
posted on March 19, 2008 07:07:06 AM new
This 24-hour news cycle has good and bad points. Yes, you can get the news 24 hours a day---information is always a positive thing. However, in a 24-hour news cycle there is a lot of time to fill. Sometimes you have to create stories, or embellish stories or repeat stories ad infinitum to fill time. Not a great thing.
I share your concerns, Cheryl. As wonderful as Obama's speech was and as wonderful as I think he is, many, many people do not share my opinion, especially since Pastor Wright's terrible remarks have been broadcast over and over (see paragraph above.) I do not remember this much attention or concern given when Billy Graham made his anti-simitic remarks, or Fallwell his remarks about homosexuals, or the McCain supporter whose name I have forgotten. All the above preachers made dispicable remarks, but only Wright's has been considered explosive and dangerous. All hate speech is dangerous. McCain's candidacy was not endangered by his preacher-supporter.
After listening to Obama's magnificent speech, I am now going to listen to Bush's speach about Iraq. What a letdown. Same old same old rhetoric, lies.....
With Hillary, I can't understand her vote for the war in 2002 and the vote last year for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment which will be used as justification for attacking Iran. With that voting record in mind, how can anyone belive that she will bring the troops home? Who is she trying to fool? I believe that she is trying to manipulate American voters so that as president she can capitulate to big business and the Pentagon.
Obviously, a vote for Hillary will be a vote for more war which indicates that she, like Bush does not believe in international law or truth and just like Bush cannot be relied upon to use good judgement.
Her failure to address the racist attempts to smear Obama was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as I am concerned. I can't even go to the polls and hold my nose while I vote for her because I believe that she and McCain are equivalent in all respects, both puppets for the same Rovian machine.
