posted on September 20, 2008 11:09:09 PM new
ROGER SCHANK
Formerly Professor, Stanford, Yale, and Northwestern; Latest projects:
grandparentgames.com; and an alternative to the existing school systems
described on engine4ed.org.
Report From Florida
The Haidt article is interesting, as are the responses to it, but these
pieces are written by intellectuals who live in an environment where
reasoned argument is prized. I live in Florida.
When I travel, I live the life of an intellectual. In Florida, I hang
out with jocks and retirees. I try not to talk politics with them. When,
it happens that I have no choice but to hear what they think about
politics I take note of it. Here is what I have heard:
Obama is a Muslim. His pastor hates America. In fact nearly everyone
outside of America hates America. If you travel outside of America, go
on a cruise, so you won't have to eat whatever it is one eats in those
places. You don't want to talk to the people either, but that's not a
problem because none of them speak English. And, anyway they all hate us
for our freedoms. Obama will put Al Sharpton in the cabinet. Dick Cheney
was the greatest Vice President in history. The Jews are running the
country anyway.
I am not making this up. This is not a caricature. I wish I carried a
tape recorder.
Why do these people vote Republican?
It is common to make the assumption that people are thinking when they
vote and they are making reasoned choices. I harbor no such illusion. No
argument I have ever gotten into with these people, (despite avoiding
talking to them, I sometimes can't resist saying something true) has
ever convinced anyone of anything. They are not reasoning, nor do they
want to try. They simply believe what they believe. What do they
believe?
1. They don't like blacks. Forget the rest. It isn't that they are
racists. They will be polite if a black person ever appears. (This
doesn't happen much, although I am sure they must live here too.) They
just don't like them. They have no reason. If you ask them today, as a
result of recent remarks by Michelle Obama and their pastor, they will
say that blacks hate America. This is not the reason, but they sound
more reasoned in their own minds if they say it that way.
2. They don't like wussies. The Democrats are always nominating
wussies,-men who are not men. Obama looks like his wife runs the show at
home. Kerry? Gore? Dukakis. Wussies. Not real men. Bad people are trying
to kill us. We need to kill them first. Those guys wouldn't pull the
trigger. (I am not making this up. I wish I were.)
3. They worry about money. Who wants to take their money away?
Liberals of course. They want to give it to the blacks.
Where I live is not redneck country. There is a lot of church going but
no talk about abortion or of being born again. There is a just a
distaste and distrust for people not like us (which I am sure includes
me.)
It is all very nice to come up with complex analyses of what is going
on. As is often the case, the real answer is quite simple. Most people
can't think very well. They were taught not to think by religion and by
a school system that teaches that knowledge of state capitals and
quadratic equations is what education is all about and that well
reasoned argument and original ideas will not help on a multiple choice
test.
We don't try to get the average child to think in this society so why,
as adults would we expect that they actually would be thinking? They
think about how the Yankees are doing, and who will win some reality
show contest, and what restaurant to eat it, but they are not equipped
to think about politics and, in my mind, they are not equipped to vote.
The fact that we let them vote while failing to encourage them to think
for themselves is a real problem for our society.
The scientific question here is how belief systems are acquired and
changed. I worked on this problem with both Ken Colby and Bob Abelson
for many years. Colby was a psychiatrist who modeled paranoid behavior
on computers. The basis of his work was research on how neurotic
thinking depends upon the attempt to make inconsistent beliefs work
together when the core beliefs cannot change.
Abelson worked on modeling political belief systems. He built a very
convincing model of Barry Goldwater that showed that once you adopted
some simple beliefs about the cold war, every other position Goldwater
took could be derived (and asserted by a computer) from those core
beliefs. The idea of a set of unchanging core beliefs is not true of
only politicians or psychiatric patients of course. Everyday average
Joes behave the same way. Adult belief systems rest on childhood beliefs
instilled by parents mostly and by assorted other authorities.
Republicans do not try to change voter's beliefs. They go with them.
Democrats appeal to reason. Big mistake.
posted on September 21, 2008 05:58:50 AM new
I copied this to my step-mother, it'll make her crazy! She sends me anti-Obama emails on a daily basis. Thanks for the ammunition, roadsmith.
[i]Republicans do not try to change voter's beliefs. They go with them.
Democrats appeal to reason.[/i]
Some professors with impressive credentials are not good teachers or writers in my opinion. If this article is representative of Roger Schank, then he may be a member of that group.
It's amazing to me that he is apparently surprised to learn from his ivory tower that such attitudes and misinformation exist throughout the country and then goes on to to attribute the problem to the failure of schools without mention of the power of propaganda.
Of course it would be wrong to judge a teacher based on one piece of writing so I read a few other opinions of Roger Shrank. On another site he believes, for example that only children who have an interest in math, for example, should be taught or encouraged to learn math. For example he states, "What kid would choose learning mathematics over learning about animals, trucks, sports, or whatever? Is there one? Good. Then, teach him mathematics. Leave the other children alone."
posted on September 21, 2008 06:33:43 AM new
The statement, "Republicans do not try to change voter's beliefs. They go with them." is false.
Actually, Republicans make a concerted effort to distort and change basic values such as fairness, freedom, equality, responsibility, integrity and security to fit their greedy warmongering agenda.
Republicans spend billions and have the support of nearly all media in their effort to spin the truth, deliver sleaze and lies and frame their arguments in their effort "to change voter's beliefs".
posted on September 21, 2008 11:16:11 PM new
Helen, it's true that Schank may have some odd ideas, but what he's written here is not common knowledge in this country. He's described an uneducated electorate that has never been taught to think. Many don't know that--yet--so I thought it would be good to post his message.
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posted on September 22, 2008 06:32:43 AM new
And here it is...friends, I give you my Step-Mother's response:
WHY DO YOU VOTE DEMOCRAT???
YOU WILL FIND OUT IF THAT MUSLIM GETS IN YOUR TAXES WILL BE SO HIGH YOU WILL CRY!!!!!!
ONCE A MUSLIM ALWAYS A MUSLIM...HOW WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR HEAD CHOPPED OFF, YOUR EYES GOUGED OUT AND THE MOST HORRIBLE THINGS YOU CAN THINK OF HAPPEN TO YOU ... DO! REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO SOME OF OUR SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN AND ALSO TO CONTRACTORS ETC. AND YES WE DID THE BEST THING GOING INTO IRAQ AND KEEPING THE WAR THERE NOT HERE!
Yes, the caps are hers. Is she suggesting that, if Obama becomes president, we run the risk of having our heads chopped off and our eyes gouged out?
posted on September 22, 2008 06:59:46 AM new
Roadsmith wrote, "Helen, it's true that Schank may have some odd ideas, but what he's written here is not common knowledge in this country. He's described an uneducated electorate that has never been taught to think. Many don't know that--yet--so I thought it would be good to post his message.
Frankly, Roadsmith I was fascinated by this article so I appreciate your post. But the fact that a professor with his credentials and background in Psychology and Computer Science was seemingly ignorant of the fact that the electorate is unable to think....that is, until he left his academic environment is not believable.
The only reasonable explanation for this poorly written article is that his opening paragraphs are just feigned ignorance serving to introduce his real concern, that children should be taught how to think.
posted on September 22, 2008 07:24:57 AM new
Shething--You have my sympathy as well. You cannot have a reasonable exchange of ideas with someone like that. Her diatribe sounds like every spam e-mail I have received on Obama, which are full of outrageous misinformation, lies and unbelievable ideas. How can anyone believe thus stuff? Thinking that Obama won't make a good president is one thing, but thinking that he would like to behead people and kill Americans---that is really out there
posted on September 22, 2008 07:33:02 AM new
Thank you, pixiamom. She's my step-mother and yes, she is difficult on many levels. I must admit I'm guilty of instigating her wrath at times because her responses are so humorous to me at times.
Coach, she sends me those outlandish emails all the time. So far I've kept the urge to respond to her under control... until now.
If it means anything, she watches Fox News religiously...
posted on September 22, 2008 08:43:41 AM new
Shething, I can surely relate. My own brother,is a Fox fan and McCain supporter. When it comes to politics, we are as different as night and day. In all other aspects of life, we are very similar. He's my baby brother and I love him dearly, but we try to avoid political discussions so we don't kill each other. At least he does not send me those crazy e-mails.
posted on September 22, 2008 10:03:41 AM new
My brother (only sibling) is a conservative Repub., friend of McCain's as I've mentioned, and we absolutely cannot discuss politics. Pity.
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