posted on January 24, 2001 09:19:10 AM
Did you watch it last night? From what I saw, that couple in england is just flat out NASTY. The woman, Judith Kilshaw, all she complained about was the loss of her twelve grand. Seemed she didnt care about the babies at all...just the money she was out. And they took those babies KNOWING of the other couple. On top of that, the mother...sitting there with her lawyer, that icky gloria alredd, saying she loved her children and wanted them back. Uh huh..so she can sell them again. The whole thing made my blood boil. BUT, the good part is, the whole world (or whomever watched dateline) saw for themselves how nasty the kilshaws are.
posted on January 24, 2001 09:22:15 AM
My husband and I thought the same thing about the Kilshaws.
The whole thing is so sad, those poor babies. I think the Mother and the Broker should be charged, and the first couple should be allowed to apply to adopt them. It will be interesting to see where it ends up.
posted on January 24, 2001 09:29:26 AM
Dang! I missed it because I fell asleep. Always happens to me. I'm curious if the fact that the natural mother's false statement regarding her Arkansas residency was brought up. The reason I wonder about this is because since she was not a resident of that state for the required 30 days, it means that the proceedings there were illegal, which also means (to me anyway) that the babies were taken out of this country illegally. I'm wondering why the British courts are considering this issue, when the babies are American citizens (not British), and it appears to me that U.S. Courts should have jurisdiction. Did anyone discuss this issue in that interview?
posted on January 24, 2001 09:34:25 AM
Katyd, they brought up about her claiming to live in Ark, and the babies born there, which was a lie, but no...they didnt bring up the possibilities of bringing those babies back home due to the fabrications. Two other couples besides the kilsaws and allens ALSO were asked to send 8500.00 and THEY were promised the babies too!!! The other two couples backed out, so they didnt get taken for their money. If this isnt a case of BABY selling, by the mother AND broker, I dont know what is. 4 couples, 1 set of twins. The kilshaws were NASTY, plain and simple. That woman was AWFUL. Same league as the birth mother and broker. The first couple seemed the best, but I hear the woman has a criminal background. Still, they seemed to really love the babies, regardless of the money they shelled out and lost since the babies were KIDNAPPED back again. No word of if the people who paid, get their money back either. Prolly not. Still and all...that broker is into slavery, because thats what it was. Those babies better not be handed back to their low life mother!!!
posted on January 24, 2001 09:34:42 AM
maui...do you remember when the first adoptive mother told her story and she said the birthmother had decided even before the twins were born that she was going to adopt them out? When the BM was staying with them in CA, she let the adoptive Mom do all the caretaking. The BM never established any bond with these babies. And NOW she wants them back! Oh, and she's got a job (hotel receptionist) so she can take care of them now. Yeah, like she can support 5 kids while she's working full time.
Our late news also said the birthfather now has a court order for custody. Where's he been for the last 7 months?
These babies have had 3 sets of parents in 7 months. What a recipe for disaster! I wish they could get that baby broker and toss her in jail.
edited for grammar
[ edited by njrazd on Jan 24, 2001 09:36 AM ]
posted on January 24, 2001 09:41:16 AM
Yes, I remember her saying that...about wanting to adopt them out as soon as she found out she was pregnant. And where has the father been? Waiting in the sidelines...now that the twins are "famous" and there is potential to get in the "limelight", he has made his presence known.
Whats with England, anyway? No concern for two boys who TORTURED a 2 year old and lets them free with fake names to prey on others, and now are so "proper" to keep two twin babies they have no right to keep. Those babies are AMERICAN, and they were KIDNAPPED.
posted on January 24, 2001 09:42:37 AM
Well, the "broker", Tina Johnson, is a local here. The newspaper keeps referring to her home in El Cajon as "expansive", "gated", "large" "secluded", etc. She did "adoption" business in Arkansas, then moved to Oregon, and then here to So. Ca. From the description of her "home" it sounds like it's a pretty lucrative business. I still think those babies are first and foremost U.S. citizens and should be brought back to this country immediately.
posted on January 24, 2001 09:50:45 AM
Im sure lots of crooks would have homes like Tina's when they, too, sold ONE set of HUMANS to four different people. Tina and the BM (boy, do those initials fit another meaning, eh?)lucked out by finding another couple just as nasty and crooked as they were, eh?
posted on January 24, 2001 01:07:30 PM
Did anyone who saw the show hear what I think I heard toward the end of the broadcast? It was almost an aside, not explained and very low-key -- that the couple in California was afraid to try traditional adoption routes because of the wife's police record? Or am I imagining things?!? (It was such a brief remark and said in such a casual way that I admit I may have heard it incorrectly. Please tell me if that's what was said!)
I agree with everyone about the Kilshaws. He's an attorney and she's a functional illiterate with no apparent conscience; a very odd couple. No wonder they couldn't adopt in Great Britain.
This entire situation involves a real cast of characters...how sad it all is for those children.
posted on January 24, 2001 01:45:36 PM
wisegirl, yes, I heard that part about the criminal record. Funny that they kept that low key, dontcha think? However, she (mrs allan) did seem very distraught at losing the babies after she bonded with them AND the BM(Im going to keep using those initials...they fit her), and whatever her past record was, Im sure we will hear of it soon, yes?
Maybe what is going on lately is the sign of the times. We have a president that most nobody wants or admires and babies are sold over the internet to the highest bidder...MULTIPLE times, and nothing is done to them. Slavery seems to be alive and well in this day...its just called another name. Makes me sick.
posted on January 24, 2001 02:19:54 PM
Our news told us that if the babies are returned to the States they will be given back to the Birth Mother, is this correct???
My view is that the Birth Mother should be SHOT or at the very least locked up for the crime of giving her babies away.
They were not stolen from her, how can she now say I love my babies and want them back.
I think Mrs. Allen had some petty stuff from years ago. They glossed over that in the TV article. Didn't mention if she ever did any jailtime or anything.
According to the latest article, the BM (no offense to loving Birth Mothers, but it really does fit in this situation) is herself on probation.
posted on January 24, 2001 03:32:54 PM
Re citizenship: If the mother or father was a US citizen, or the babies were born on US soil (including commonwealth or territories), the babies are US citizens.
posted on January 24, 2001 06:56:58 PM
What really got me was a comment by the birth mother. After claiming that "she had never really put them up for *permanent* adoption" (yeah, right), she was asked about her treatment of the prospective adoptive parents & had she considered their rights in the matter. To which she replied: what about me? What about *my* rights?". Any mother who attempts to sell her babies to several different people at once, IMO, has given up any rights to the kids. She went on to declare: I am their mother. I have a job now. The best place for my babies is with *me*." ROFL! She has already shown that the minute she needs/wants money again, those kids will be on the auction block in a NY minute, if left in her tender care.
As for the adoptive parents (all sets of them)...well, you've got to be pretty foolish to do such a thing over the Internet. And further, without a legal contract being drawn up. The "criminal record" of the first couple stemmed (as stated on the program) from vindictiveness from a former employee or co-worker (forget which)--they'd been quarreling and this person "got back" at them by going to the police & levelling claims of child abuse.
posted on January 25, 2001 05:01:08 AM
Just a postulation...
I'm reminded of an incident where an American citizen broke the law in another, less hospitable, country. That country's gov't wanted that man BAD but couldn't touch him as long as the man remained in the hospital on base. While he remained in the hospital long after he recovered, the US gov't and that country's gov't negotiated a deal that would keep the man out of prison.
The man spent almost three months in the hospital but he knew if he stepped outside, the other country's police officers were waiting for him...and they were parked just outside the exit and watching for him to make a move off hospital grounds.
So-while the babies may be American citizens, it is not out of the realm of possibility that keeping them in the UK is the best solution for now while the two governments wheel and deal behind the scenes to try and do the best by the babies while keeping them out of the hands of the vultures.
Remember, just a postulation...
Who knows what political stuff is transpiring back and forth behind the scenes.
posted on March 1, 2001 08:03:52 PM
Update: The adoptive father in California was arrested for molesting the teenaged babysitter. The attornies who are representing him in Arkansas are recommending that they pull out of the case.
[ edited by rosiebud on Mar 1, 2001 08:06 PM ]
posted on March 2, 2001 07:12:37 AM
OMG, rosie!
Do you have a link?
I think it's time for some good old fashioned mandatory sterilization.
or should it be castration? hmmmmm...
posted on March 2, 2001 07:54:32 AM
chepistar ~ trying to find one. I'm in Little Rock and that's where all the lawyers are involved at for the Arkansas part of things, and they had a blurb on the local news last night.
posted on March 2, 2001 08:13:57 AM
thanks, rosie.
We heard nothing of it down here (FL). I wish we would ~ so many retirees are looking for a cause to fill their time ~
now that the ballots have been counted a kazillion times...
I still think those babies are first and foremost U.S. citizens and should be brought back to this country immediately.