krs
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posted on January 27, 2001 01:22:39 PM
of dumbya;
http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2001/01/sobel-l-01-26.html
http://slate.msn.com/code/BallotBox/BallotBox.asp?Show=1/24/2001&idMessage=6949
http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/26/bush.democrats.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/26/bush.democrats.ap/index.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53414-2001Jan26.html
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/10/cover-meyerson.shtml
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zeldas
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posted on January 27, 2001 02:36:39 PM
Ken ---Scary isn't it? And it has only just begun!
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Shoshanah
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posted on January 27, 2001 03:22:10 PM
sick, sick SICK, SICK....
Anyone knowledgeable in history of the Inquisition:
"But he termed "unfortunate" Caldwell's phrase asking those who agreed that Jesus's name is above all to say "amen."
It put non-Christians in the public position of either voicing agreement with a belief they didn't accept or appearing to reject the cooperative spirit of the occasion,
said Abrams, a former assistant attorney general and author of "Faith or Fear: How Jews Can Survive in a Christian America.""
This really smacks of it...
One of the very sad things which can be expected is that, with that kind of attitude, dubious bush is going to bring the Israel/Palestine Peace Process to a dead stop:
The "status quo" in Israel is endorsed by the FAR RIGHT, Ultra Orthodox Jewish Movement...a very scary group, who do not want Palestinians to establish a State of their own..
So, of course, that Ultra movement will eat up dubious bush's 's words.
Palestine deserves to have a place of their own, just as the Jews did after WWII, just as the Armenian people do.
It is a very sad, sad state of affairs! Today, I feel defeated....
********
Gosh Shosh!
About Me
Old And Sold
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kiheicat
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posted on January 27, 2001 03:42:19 PM
Only 207 more weeks to go.
Unless..............
(you fill in the blank, lol)
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Shoshanah
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posted on January 27, 2001 03:46:50 PM
Thanks, kiheicat....
And I can truly say:
I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!
********
Gosh Shosh!
About Me
Old And Sold
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chum
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posted on January 27, 2001 04:39:20 PM
Rumor has it there will be another protest against him in early summer. I think every few months there should be protests. African American registrations is up to record levels since he was handed the election. We need a countdown timer to election day 2004.
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rancher24
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posted on January 27, 2001 05:26:44 PM
chum....Great idea!....Remember the Millennium Countdown Clocks?....Someone should manufacture a Dubya version...It could be sold to more than half the country! 
~ Rancher
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figmente
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posted on January 27, 2001 05:54:43 PM
http://www.halfwit.com
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maddienicks
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posted on January 27, 2001 06:02:12 PM
"Horrifying" sums it up well.
He is working toward tearing down the very foundations this country was built upon. Separation of Church and State is fundamental to what America is, and he has shown in this first week that he believes the Christian Church should have far more control over what happens in our schools and social services programs.
It makes me wonder how much longer America can continue in this way without erupting in another Civil War. Seems to me Shrub is just the man to bring it on. 
In my best redneck upper midwest woods accent: "Ah, geez...Yah, I'm sure glad I still have my guns, you betcha..."
Going for the Zantac now.
Kris
[email protected]
edit post-Zantac. heh
[ edited by maddienicks on Jan 27, 2001 06:04 PM ]
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Capriole
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posted on January 27, 2001 06:08:04 PM
This should give you a tickle...
http://www.thecomedylab.com/bushpalm/1.html
And there's always a good bit o' fun at
http://www.bushwatch.com
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Zazzie
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posted on January 27, 2001 06:09:39 PM
Be afraid---be very afraid
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bunnicula
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posted on January 27, 2001 07:33:39 PM
maddienicks: you took the words right out of my mouth It has been obvious to me for years that the Far Right has had "christianizing" the U.S. on its agenda. Makes you happy that we have term limits in this country, doesn't it? The way Bush has started out, we just might end up with an "official" church if we aren't careful.
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figmente
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posted on January 27, 2001 08:49:14 PM
"Bush got away with excessive abstraction," said Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader. "Nobody ever said, 'What do you mean when you talk about compassionate conservatives? What does it mean when you say you want to favor taxpayers?"'
Thanks a lot Mr. "not a nickel's difference".
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victoria
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posted on January 27, 2001 09:50:04 PM
Thanks - I wonder when I'm ever going to be able to sleep again.
Oh, yeah, that's right, in another 4 years.
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newauctionguy
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posted on January 28, 2001 08:56:48 AM
Just to reply to maddienicks.... nowhere in the Constitution does it state those dreaded words "Separation of Church and State". This "Separation" that people like to refer to is something that was invented in the 60s because some kid didn't want to pray during school (which had been done on a regular basis up until that point). When the founders came to our country, one of the main reasons was to escape the religious persecution. However, what many of these "Separation" believers don't understand is that they were escaping the persecution of their Chrisitian belief system vs. the Christian belief system of the King. The idea of the 1st Amendment was that no Christian sect would be more powerful/dominant than any other, yet Chrisitanity (as itself) would be the nation's religion.
All Bush is trying to do is go back to the founders original intent.
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Zazzie
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posted on January 28, 2001 09:11:39 AM
Is Bush gonna ask all the Non-Christians to go home then?? "Oops!!! we made a mistake--non-Christians weren't suppose to come."
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newauctionguy
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posted on January 28, 2001 09:17:58 AM
That's not the point. The point is that people need to realize that this country was founded on Christian beliefs, morals, values, etc. When we visit other countries, we instantly have to adapt to their language, their religion, etc. HOWEVER, when people come here, we allow them to continue to speak their language and the like. I have no problem with people wanting to practice their religion. But people need to realize that this IS a Christian nation.
Examples of this:
Pledge of Allegiance: "...One nation under God..."
On money: "In God We Trust"
Congress opens sessions with prayer.
Christian holidays are federal holidays (ie: Easter and Christmas)
Everywhere you go during those holidays (especially Christmas), streets, stores, government buildings are decorated for THAT holiday.
They have an Easter Egg Roll for kids on the White House lawn.
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krs
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posted on January 28, 2001 09:30:11 AM
So, newauctionguy, you have your own new interpretation of the word "establishment" as it appears in the first amendment clause which goes Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, eh?
You say that because the bulk of the original immigrants to this country were christians of some denomination or another that this is a christian nation which just tolerates Jews, Moslems, and all of the various non-christian systems that have so graciously been allowed entrance into this christian kingdom?
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newauctionguy
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posted on January 28, 2001 09:40:05 AM
It's not my interpretation of the 1st Amendment. That's what the interpretation is. When the founders came over, they didn't have to worry about (I know, bad choice of words, but couldn't think of anything else) other religions because the religios persecution they felt in England was, like I said, one Christian belief vs. another. So, when they wrote the 1st Amendment, the term religion was written to mean Christianity. So, in essence, what they were saying is that the country can't hold Catholics over Lutherans, or Methodists over Episcopalians, or any other one Chrisitan denomination over another. The intent was that this country would be Christian. That's not to say that the country would deny anybody based on religious beliefs. What can be said is that the country went soft and decided to take God out of things like schools.
With that said, and while I believe that we need to go back to the way we were in the past, I don't believe that Bush will be able to get it done. And it's not because he doesn't have the capabilities to see that it gets done. It's because there are too many anti-Christian zealots in this country that will see to it that it doesn't happen.
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Shoshanah
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posted on January 28, 2001 09:49:44 AM
Well, looks like it's time for me to pack up, go round up my camel and head back for the desert...Maybe Moses will return and will point me in the right direction, this time
********
Gosh Shosh!
About Me
Old And Sold
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krs
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:00:39 AM
Well, you seem to be floundering in your founders. Do you mean the original settlers from Europe are the founders who "came over" or do you mean those illustrious fellows, already here, who wrote the U.S. constitution?
Did you know that Thomas Jefferson was a Hindu priest, and that his original name was not Jefferson but Mendellson?
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newauctionguy
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:03:52 AM
Both groups that you speak of that came over were looking for religious freedom.
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figmente
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:05:43 AM
The Gang of Five who sit upon the Court
Are bent on wiping out the Bill of Rights
As case by tragic case they sell us short,
Extinguishing the Founding Father's lights.
The history of the "Wall of Separation between Church and State" goes back to the constitutional debates and was not invented in the 1960s. Today's right practices selective amnesia.
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victoria
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:07:54 AM
I'm not even going to try to debate newauctionguy. I lack the words to explain even how what he said makes me feel.
Just let me say this:
With all the negative connotation that I can put into two words, I disagree.
It's people like you that make me feel that being an "anti-Christian zealot" might be a good thing. And prior to just this minute, I wasn't aware that I was any kind of a zealot at all.
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Zazzie
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:09:00 AM
I suppose women should have the vote taken away from them too. As it certainly wasn't the 'INTENT' of the founders that women would have a say in the running of the country.
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krs
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:09:19 AM
Oh, I get it now. your one of those pray in school proponents. Prayer legislation is patently unconstitutional. For a school to require prayer by law would allow prayers that might offend those of minority religions. The legislation is coercive to those who do not believe in the religion. They are a captive audience. Any pressure to participate in a religious activity in which students do not believe is unconstitutional.
Even if students lead the prayer without teacher or school district participation, the school district and the state is endorsing the prayers that are spoken. This violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
Can't get more back to the founders intent than that.
one lost y
[ edited by krs on Jan 28, 2001 10:10 AM ]
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newauctionguy
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:11:41 AM
This "wall" is again put up so that no Christain denomination would rise about another.
And not all that aren't Christian are zealots.
And I'm sorry if what I said offended anyone in any way.
But I have to ask this. If this "Separation of Church and State" really is a division between all religions and government, explain to me why we have all those examples that I listed.
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newauctionguy
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:14:17 AM
And to respond to krs, it is not against the establishment clause for students to lead prayers. Look at all the campuses across this country that do it. Right now, the rule is such that provided they do not force anyone to do it they are fine. However, I would like to add that the laws you cite were most likely (I'm not sure on this, but it seems reasonable) added in the 60s when this whole "Separation of Church and State" myth came to a head.
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krs
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:18:39 AM
Because they don't impose on anyone by law. Besides, don't you know that Christmas is a Wiccan holiday?
'In god we trust" means Ra, the sun god.
'One nation under God' is an acquiescence to Thor.
Congress opens with prayers to the east.
Whatever made you so presumptive as to assume that God means only the god YOU worship?
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figmente
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posted on January 28, 2001 10:20:29 AM
How much of this faith-based government largess should we expect to go to the Wiccans?
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