posted on March 5, 2001 09:48:47 PM
Skimming through the threads I find some that with reference to religion and race to be very disturbing. As someone who whiloe believing in God practices no religion, I still find the thread regarding Jews and the other one regarding the Pope to be vulgar and disrespectful. You all know I have about as good a sense of humor as anyone and I can even take and rip on myself but I think these type of posts step over the line. Newbies who know nothing about this place might very easily get the wrong idea. Getting off my soapbox now.
http://ballsandstrikescollectibles.beckett.com/
posted on March 5, 2001 09:56:14 PM
Seriously, what is your problem with the Vatican thread? (I am really not talking down to you, but you are aware that The Onion is a *spoof* newspaper....some people have never heard of it).
posted on March 5, 2001 10:00:18 PMI still find the thread regarding Jews and the other one regarding the Pope to be vulgar and disrespectful.
As far as my thread about the Jews goes, you really should take that up with the writers of the OId Testament because all I did was paraphrase a universally-known story of the Bible -- when God, speaking through a burning bush, commands Moses to lead the Jews out of Egypt. Jeepers, I even provided a reference to the exact quote - Exodus, chapter 3, verse 10.
Please, enlighten me. Tell me how that is "vulgar and disrespectful." I challenge you to back that up.
posted on March 5, 2001 10:03:08 PM
You know, since just about every other thread about politics and/or religion (seems like they always end up going together) ends up in some pretty nasty word-action, I find it really 'odd' that the very few that haven't (those tonight) are being questioned.
posted on March 5, 2001 10:05:17 PM
As someone who practices no religion and who has myself made some offhanded jokes about it, I have learned that people who take religion, faith or the Bible seriously can get offended rather easily when they become the subject of humor. IMHO, the way the topics ware being addressed COULD BE considered vulgar/ blasphemous (spelling lol). I am asking you to consider, new people come here everyday that do not know the level of humor that goes on here and how to take the different personalities. Religion somewhat like politics is a very sensitive issue with some people. I just think these topics should be addressed with a bit more care.
otsafuzz I can't speak for how others handle these type of topics but I think you will find I tend to avoid the type of angry flaming you are referring to. To me, when a debate begins to turn personal, it is time to walk away.
http://ballsandstrikescollectibles.beckett.com/
[ edited by ballsandstrikes on Mar 5, 2001 10:07 PM ]
posted on March 5, 2001 10:11:28 PM
ballsandstrikes: I understand your concern for the lurkers out there, although I don't share it (been around to long to go back down that old beaten path).
However, I wonder why you would bring this up now? Just about every thread down here (and don't even get me started on the 'shipping wars' thread(s)) is going to offend someone. God help the lurker who stumbled onto the abortion thread (hell, I live here and my head about blew off).
Honestly though, I don't even consider this a "well, it is better than *that* one" kind of thread because the two threads you mentioned were not offensive. One *was* locked, but the reason stated for that is that the moderator didn't have time to read the thread.
While I understand your concern and support your right to express it, it really bothers me that Spaz is being maligned because of his post. Anyone who knows him knows he is very sensitive and careful about offending the public at large.
posted on March 5, 2001 10:11:35 PM
Let's see...the first thread links to a Bible passage and is a tongue in cheek play on the political threads that litter the forum. The second is linked to a satirical magazine article(have you ever read The Onion? Funny stuff) which happens to have the Vatican as its topic.
Those topics are no different than a scad of others posted on this forum. Yet because they reference some religious object or institution, well then, it must be insulting, degrading, blasphemy, profane, heretical, sacreligious, and downright icky and must be avoided at all costs or God/Allah/Jehovah/the moderators will strike us down where we sit.
I wonder-why is it acceptable to poke fun at political or popular institutions but not religious ones? Why do people immediately equate comments pertaining to Biblical events as a slur against a particular group or groups? Where is it written that all religion must be discussed with a severe expression and in solemn tones?
posted on March 5, 2001 10:16:31 PM
Allow me to say this and I will say no more. The ORIGINATOR of a thread is not always to blame for the direction a thread turns. As you all well know, many times serious topics which are started are derailed through no fault of the originator.
Yes I have read Onion but give me Mad magazine anyday! hehe
http://ballsandstrikescollectibles.beckett.com/
[ edited by ballsandstrikes on Mar 5, 2001 10:18 PM ]
posted on March 5, 2001 10:24:01 PM
lotsafuzz, yeah I know mocking God didn't happen in the other threads. I was just commenting on religion and humor mixing.
posted on March 5, 2001 10:26:06 PMMzalez: Who decides what is mocking and what isn't? You? Me? Some poor sap pulled from another forum and told to judge? And upon what grounds would that decision be made? Your religious upbringing? Mine? Protestant? Catholic? Muslim? But what if I don't agree with you that a particular post is mocking God? Does that make either of us wrong?
posted on March 5, 2001 10:35:05 PM
shadow, the one who is mocking is the one who decides. I assume they would know what they are doing. The Creator would know for sure if someone is mocking Him.
If you don't agree with one of my opinions, then I would assume you simply don't agree with my opinion.
One of us would be right, one of us would be wrong--because the person who is 'allegedly mocking' either is or isn't mocking.
posted on March 5, 2001 10:40:55 PM
"He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone
him."
See, *that's* the one I'm worried about. How is your pitching arm, mzalez?
posted on March 5, 2001 10:46:49 PM
lotsafuzz, I did go back and look at the Vatican spoof again. It was disrespectful to the Pope (I am not Catholic) and Catholic church. It's not kind to spoof anyone's faith like that, no matter what their religion is.
On your other comments, you are missing the point about the items you state. If you would take the time to read and study the Bible you would understand those things. Before I started to study the Word, I didn't understand either. It appeared there were all sorts of contradictions and unfairness.
By the way, we are all sinners--not just those on Jerry.
posted on March 5, 2001 10:52:09 PMIf you would take the time to read and study the Bible you would understand those things.
I'm sorry, but where do you get the impression I haven't?
Until you get a chance to 'fix' the Constitution, you are just going to have to deal with the fact that mocking God *is* allowed (forgetting for a second *THAT* didn't happen in the threads in question and you were just postering for the hell of it).
You certianly have every right to question it, but you can't stop it.
posted on March 5, 2001 11:02:38 PM
lotsafuzz, maybe you have studied the Word, I have no way of knowing. I just read your comments and see that maybe you don't fully understand what God is telling us through the Word.
I know that people do mock God, and that the constitution gives them the right (which are divine rights) to do so if they choose. Also, God gave us free will along with his commands. We can choose to obey his commands or disobey.
If we disobey, we will have to face the consequences (the death, so to speak). And as you can see on Jerry Springer, there are lots of awful consequences--not just for those who disobey, but for the innocent bystanders around them, too.
Yeah, I know I can't stop people for disobeying (mocking and whatever else). I deal with it everyday...even from myself.
And thanks for recognizing we have a right to question them, too. If you see someone doing something that is going to hurt them, wouldn't you want to point it out to them? Whether or not they take heed is up to them.
posted on March 5, 2001 11:19:54 PM
"If any man hears me and does not believe me, I do not judge him."
...Jesus the Christ says that; it's somewhere in Matthew. (I'm sure some folk here can cite chapter and verse).
I think this verse obviates the difference between "studying the Word" and "reading with comprehension".
-gaffan-
posted on March 6, 2001 06:23:53 AM
"Studying" also implies learning, as opposed to simply accepting what you're told you should think about what the Bible says. We have the ability to think and reason for ourselves and we should use that ability instead of letting others tell us how or what we should believe.
It was quite enlightening to discover that things I had been taught as coming straight from God's mouth were out of context applications, cultural bias, and denominational leanings(Imagine my surprise when I realized there was no way Jesus could be a scrawny white dude in a bathrobe).
It's not scriptural but I like to think God must have a great sense of humor. Why else are there aardvarks, platypuses(platypi?), and otters?
posted on March 6, 2001 06:32:44 AM
Blows my mind that platypuses are poisonous. Saw a nature show where a guy nearly died after being nailed by a platypus.
posted on March 6, 2001 06:58:01 AM
Bottom line is, anyone can and does have the freedom to mock God if they so choose.
It is definitely up to each person to choose whether to accept whether he IS alive or not and whether the bible IS true or not.
For those who want to pick out one or two verses and base actions on that, I suggest you read the whole thing and then look at the big picture.
The bible is either true or it is not and I think that's what I'd like to know, especially before engaging in practices it speaks against.
According to the bible, things changed in the New Testament when Jesus gave his life for sins and offered grace to all who had sinned and would turn from their wickedness. According to the bible , the key is turning. According to the bible, It is clear that many judgements of God are being withheld, but for those who won't turn to him, when the end comes, there will be death for all who won't repent and that death will go on and on forever. What death? Separation from God! The New Testament explains that as the explanation of what God was teaching in the Old testament.
Rather than look at what judgements there may be due, I think I'd be asking. What if what he says is true? What if there is a God? What if he did give his son as payment for MY sins and I don't accept him? What is the reward if I do and what is the punishment if I don't? Can I really walk clean now? Is it true? If so, do I really want to mock him or is it true that he that is not with him is against him? Wow, maybe rather than exercising my God given freedoms, I should be finding out what he thinks about them. Maybe I should find out if the free gift he offers is true. Maybe I should seek out the truth first and then base my actions on that. Maybe I don't know all I thought I did.
posted on March 6, 2001 07:17:24 AM
I met a pompous ass who was full of himself about religion and was going on about his degrees. I said "I bet you still don't know what kind of car God drives."
He was upset I would suggest that God should need to drive a car, and asked what I was talking aabout?
I pointed out that in Genisis God drove Adam and Eve out of the garden in his fury.
He was upset that I was mocking God - and too full of himself to see I was mocking HIM.
Didn't want anything to do with me after that - what a loss. Too stupid to stop and think that God built humor into the universe also.
