posted on March 7, 2001 06:54:53 AM new
Well I loathe the store, but go there for 1 item not gettable anywhere else, about 5 or 6 times a year.
I was leaving and an alarm went off. A big loud "YOU ARE STEALING" type alarm.
I was not stealing.
3 employees rushed to maul my bags in the shopping cart and they could not find the trouble.
Long story short they eventually found a shoplifting tag INSIDE the box of an Ace wrist support (for carpal tunnel).
More rudeness and I went home and made some phone calls.
I told the gal on the way out that I was going to call on her and she tossed a bag of my mauled purchases (someone ripped open a big of cough drops with a fingernail - this was the extent of this) at me and said "go ahead".
Major mistake.
I spoke with her manager, the district manager and corporate.
Whole scene caught on tape. 6 hands feeling up a cart of my PAID FOR goods - no one even bother to say "excuse me, but..."
I am going in this morning to pick up my $100 certificate.
Not much, but my microwave broke yesterday and so I will show "Rachel" my new one on the way out today, and thank her kindly.
posted on March 7, 2001 07:12:01 AM new
Good for you on the $100.00!!! I've set the Wally world alarms off several times. The cashiers in our area don't seem to have a good grip on how to de-magnatize the strips. The first time it happened the security person was rude and acted like I was a criminal. After that, the next time it happened I was ready for them. I was such a total #*!@ to them that they pretty much backed off.
The irony is that I once saw a person stuffing tons of cosmetics into a large leather bag while in this same store. I reported her... then later watched her walk out the door unchecked. Go figure.
posted on March 7, 2001 07:13:31 AM new
Unless you accept the certificate, which can be shown to be a resolution to your satisfaction. This could get you a couple of thousand clear after all is paid, and it's non taxable.
posted on March 7, 2001 08:16:37 AM new
It seems as though only your belongings were mauled. Any sort of physical assault would have been strong grounds for a lawsuit. Store employees have very limited authority to search and detain. Rudeness is difficult to legally define. I don't see a criminal offense here.
As it appears, there is no serious harm involved. Unless, of course, there's some sort of psychological trauma. I'm sure a lawyer would be happy to take your case. If you are satisfied with the 100 bucks and feel it makes amends for the affrontery, I'd leave it at that.
If you plan on doing anything further in this matter you should start right now and don't accept the money or sign a waiver. Those video tapes and potential witnesses will be very hard to obtain in just a few days.
posted on March 7, 2001 08:25:19 AM new
Innocently go in there this morning and tell them you have received advice from legal counsel that this would be a case for the courts.
See if they offer you more. Going to court is a pain in the tush tag, WALMART has many lawyers on retainer. So if you want to spend the next few years of your life dealing with this.
An apology from the maulers would be satisfying---their suspension from their jobs maybe more so. But you also might wnat to check out your local laws--electonic monitoring devices for shoplifting may give them the right to do just what they did.
posted on March 7, 2001 08:51:41 AM new
I agree with previous posters. Check local and state laws or better yet, go have a free consult with an attorney who can advise you. Politely postpone (for now) returning to store for that $100 certificate. The fact that you know of existence of videotaped capture of this event is pretty damning, even if W World does have lotsa lawyers.
When I used to work at a county jail in Florida, to even touch the tip of a finger on an inmate was considered assault, even if I was only "guiding his arm lightly as he went out of my office door."
As for nasty, rude staff; I figure they must be real unhappy people and earn my pity; what goes around comes around.
Thanks god only your purchases were groped; could've been more personal....iykwim. lol
posted on March 7, 2001 09:25:58 AM new
It goes beyond assault. This situation deals with false accusation of committing a crime, plus illegal search. Did you give permission to let them search your bags?
posted on March 7, 2001 09:26:35 AM new
I took the microwave but signed nothing.
I have been involved in several scraps like this over the years and gotten various settlements. I have no complaint with the quick hundred, I have done better, and I have done worse and it does not always go *my* way.
Case in point I was shopping landscaping in a Home Base and asked for help from an employee who whispered to me that he was getting a "xardon" by standing next to me.
I was able to have him ARRESTED, well the police went back there and "ticketed" him and I got him into court, *and* I showed up with an atty but he was a putz. The thing is to prove monetary loss which perhaps a skilled atty can do (like the McDonald's spilled coffee) but someone with skills tends to take a stronger case...
Anyhow, I am a magnet for this stuff - I think it is because I am ethnic and assumed to be passive but of course things are not always what they seem. I would not be surprised if someone falls BIG on my account some day which is another reason NOT to pursue this. If I do, I wrack up a history of being a banshee and weaken a future thing.
"Rachel" was not there today.
Pity.
and by the way, we double teamed 'em.
I called and my husband called on my behalf. I wanted it to RAIN recriminations on Rachel for long long day, and in this case I got what I wanted plus a new microwave.
Good enough.
Krs and xardon have provided good advice, although sometimes I tend to believe that xardon is a “pacifist.”
If, during the aggressive melee, any physical contact of your person occurred, which would include having a basket jerked from your grasp or pushed against you, regardless (any) contact might have been accidental, and dependant upon your state statutes (laws,) you could be a victim of “simple battery.”
Additionally, I doubt that the store can prove that store “detector(s)” and their (store) record of always removing the anti-theft devices have always been competent and foolproof. If they cannot, your detention and the searching of your property without your (uncoerced) permission could be deemed to have been unlawful.
Whether you can file an “incident report” with your local PD depends on the policies of the PD. At mine, the policy is to accept and file a report, regardless of how petty the incident might seem, and let the case review officer determine if the case is be classified “unfounded,” assigned for follow-up investigation and (then) appropriately classified and possibly cleared at the departmental level, or forwarded to the State’s Attorney for final disposition.
If I were you, I would attempt to file a report of the incident with your PD for a matter of record, and then run to the nearest attorney.
In the meantime, I would 1) follow the previous advice given you and not accept any money or goods from the store (to do so could be considered that you accepted (civil) restitution and could bar further criminal and/or civil action,) and 2) immediately notify the store and strongly advise the manager (obtain his or her name and record the date and time you talked to the person) that the video tape of the incident is not to be corrupted or destroyed.
If the store has a provable practice of erasing tapes to be reused, and they are not informed that the tape is considered to be evidence, they may intentionally erase the tape earlier than they normally do.
posted on March 7, 2001 09:29:18 AM new
Well, I'm going to go against the tide here - go get your free certificate and get your microwave with it.
Walmart has acres of Lawyers - unless you can show lasting harm - your's is the uphill fight. They also know what they can and can't do based on the local laws - and most allow reasonable attempts to detain a possible theft suspect.
Now, I'm not saying to roll over and just play dead - quite the contrary. You should find the NAMES of the District and Regional Managers and send registered letters to them detailing the store, the employees, the rudeness, the damage to the purchased items. My bet is that you may well get more satisfaction than just the certificate. No hysterical wording - icy cold facts in a short letter work best. Don't just send it to their offices - it is important to address them by name.
The regional and district managers in the Wal Mart heirarchy are terribly powerful and to receive their wrath is deeply feared by store managers. If you can get their attention on your matter - you can make trouble for that store well out of proportion to the outrage you suffered.
posted on March 7, 2001 09:32:58 AM new
Boy, the idea of them erasing the tape pisses me off. According to the manager 90% of the people who set off the alarm are NOT stealing. This is the statistic he quoted.
Anyway, next time I will be smarter.
I have one of those "tape phone calls" things (got it from the FBI heh heh heh) and next time (and there WILL BE a next time) something like this happens, I will tape the conversations.
posted on March 7, 2001 09:37:09 AM new
At our local WALMART when the security alarm goes off at the exit---a lovely voice comes up and states " A security device has not been removed from your purchases --please go to the nearest store clerk for assistance"
What can I say.....We're just too darn polite in Canada.
posted on March 7, 2001 09:45:39 AM new
but sgtmike, I don't want a Lexus. I want a home on a Caribbean island. Who is to say a Lexus now does not compromise my million dollar settlement later??
Secretly taping conversations without the consent of all parties involved may be illegal in your area, VM. It is in most.
Muriel,
Only if you sign a consent form.
Sgtmike
I'm cool with the pacifist thing. It might even qualify as a job description. In the strictest sense of the word it's no different than the "getting things back to normal" phrase we all use.
posted on March 7, 2001 09:56:33 AM new
I know of one store that had a reserve cop in its employment who was power hungry. One time he stopped a young man around 15 just before he got out of the door and did a brief frisk. It was a tactic to intimidate the young man and a few other things. But he would pull stunts like that with not only the customers but the clerks as well.
He no longer works there but he is still around--hometown boy. No his real name is not Dick.
In my opinion you are getting sound advise from everyone. There is not much that I can think to add only to say "to stick to your guns."
They may be held responsible for not taking care of the alarm system when they know it is not working properly.
Do you suppose this is an intentional Barney Fife attempt to intimidate shoplifters?
posted on March 7, 2001 10:01:54 AM new
Here is an article on 'Merchant Privlege in Shoplifting"---it talks about California but the main jist of the article is the balancing of a person's individual freedoms with the right of citizen's (store owners) to protect their property. Other states may have similar laws
posted on March 7, 2001 10:08:17 AM new
Nutspec has a reasonable point, but......
it only takes 1 attorney wearing cheap clothes and driving a battered Chevrolet to drive to the courthouse and file your case. Until then, those “acres” of WalMart attorneys are not relevant.
Once the case is filed, a hearing/court date must be set and a judge must rule whether the case shall go forth. Most of the time, judges will not prevent a suit from reaching the stage where all parties involved are requested to (first) try and settle the matter out of court. In the meantime, the one thing WalMart and those “acres” of attorneys do not want has started....”adverse publicity.”
If the judge rules that the case can go to trial, WalMart and their attorneys know this; it is hard to find 6 to 12 jurors (in most civil cases, six jurors sit to hear a matter, although there may be 12 jurors) of whom none hold a grudge against large businesses. It could be as simple as one juror being pissed at WalMart because there are never enough checkout stations open.
Adverse publicity and the chance a jury could award a large sum is why many civil cases are settled out of court. Adverse publicity is probably the primary incentive to settle out of court for many businesses.
xardon
That would be nice but is no longer realistic. It is has now reached a point that Mother Nature needs to put fangs and large claws on rabbits.
posted on March 7, 2001 10:11:02 AM new
The microwave I bought today had a tag that needed to be activated. What I think is stupid is putting one of those inside the box of a wrist support. I mean... I really don't get that part at all.
posted on March 7, 2001 10:58:25 AM new
I have been "caught" by these devices at both Kmart and Wally World. My response after being cleared is to take my basket to the return counter and get a full refund. Yea, it can be a pain to shop again, but sometimes there is just a point to be made.
posted on March 7, 2001 11:14:06 AM new
scrabblegod - yep I went there too.
See, after the mauling (it was the cashier I just paid, plus the chick at the door PLUS a red vest management person Rachel)
"Rachel" asked for my receipt.
I said WHAT?
"I just paid her - you rip up my stuff and now you want my receipt??? If I take this receipt out of my purse, you are going to credit every &*$%#@ thing on it."
This is what prompted her to throw (slam) a bag of my purchases into the cart as if "then be gone with you!".
All on tape.
Also when I poked my head back in "uh... Rachel... I am going to be making some calls"
I called my husband from my cell and he made the first call within 5 minutes and like I said.
It rained all day.
I have unpacked the microwave.
Nice.
Electronic baby lock.
Cool.
posted on March 7, 2001 12:06:39 PM new
Good for you!!
Whenever I've had a problem with a store (usually the wrong order at a fast food place) I always talk to the manager. I'm not a jerk, I just tell them what happened and that I am not happy. They always 'make it right'. So much so that now the boyfriend won't even bother complaining, he just brings me in to do it.
posted on March 7, 2001 01:06:39 PM new
I'm glad you like the new nuker!
Another side to the question of taking something like this to court is that it draws out everything - With all due repect to Sgtmike - if it ever makes it to trial - you will have had to go through the discovery phase - depositions (sometimes several rounds of them depending on how much the other side wants to make you miserable) - And the seemingly endless delays and barriers put into your path by the lawyers.
The matter can take years - or a decade (A civil road dispute I was involved in as a witness took over 10 years - and is before the appeals court yet again.)
And once you bring a lawsuit - the matter cannot really be resolved by you directly anymore - The other side will not be allowed contact with you on the advice of their lawyers.
There is always a chance that the company would settle the matter out of court - but you DON"T count on that. If they go to the wall on the matter - and you lose. Your lawyer in his battered chevy will still want to be paid.
I've fought Wal Mart over a different matter and won - and been very pleased with the results. The secret in the particular case- of this one company- seems to be getting high enough and letting the Higher Managers boulders crash down on the heads of the local store people.
The local store might not give a flip about you - but they REALLY care about what their boss thinks about them (and this little local store that has brought such heartburn into the district managers life.)
posted on March 7, 2001 01:35:51 PM new
No, this would never go to court. You hire a lawyer, they'll do this type on contingency for a third. The lawyer will recommend that you see a shrink, even send you to one of the bag he or she has available, you go for a while. Meantime the case is filed for the max possible in your state, often $100,000. After a while your guy will send you a long list of questions called a deposition. You fill them out and send them back. After another while you'll go to an interrogatory where you meet the lawyers and get grilled--you keep your stuff tightly together for that. Usually the lawyers are lazy about it and they'll try to trip you up once; if that doesn't work they just leave you be. After another while you'll get a call from your lawyer to come sign over your settlement check for about seven grand I'd guess. You sign it and your lawyer cuts you a new check in the amount of the settlement minus the lawyer's cut, the shrink bill, and the court costs. You take the lawyer's check for about three grand and maybe change and go your merry way.
Happens all the time. Costs nothing to anybody and the store's insurance rate won't even go up. They don't care because it's nickle and dime stuff to them, but they think that you're pretty dumb if you don't take your little steps without a qualm.
They'll KNOW you're pretty dumb if you take their stupid certificate.
posted on March 7, 2001 01:59:12 PM new
Well, I feel that life prepares you for life, and experience is the most valuable asset.
I been screwed with most my life and do believe that all the incidents I have been involved with are likely in preparation for the BIG ONE.
As part of one of the ordeals I have been through an atty advised me that if I had filed a lot of small claims this would be to the strong detriment of a potential large claim. I do not think it was an accident that he mentioned this. It is one of the things I have learned to date, and so I am going with the odds.
If people mistakenly screw me around for 30 years, I do not expect to stop having these experiences.
What I expect is that one day planets line up and things fall like dominos, the result being that I get a settlement that I live off the rest of my life.
On the chance that I am correct, I will leave the Lexus and the $ 2-3000 on the table today. VeryModern Space Junk
