posted on March 8, 2001 11:16:12 PM new
I Believe these are the lyrics from a "Boomtown Rats" Song from the early 80's?
"Tell Me Why?"
"I don't like Mondays"
"Tell Me why?"
"I don't like Mo.. ndays"
"Tell Me WHY?
"I don't like Mondays - I wanna Shoot, Sho.o.ot - the whole day down"
I read an amazing essay yesterday about the recent school shootings in Santee. It mentioned that one of the first instances happened in San Diego in the 70's - when a child picked up a rifle and started shooting at the school across the street. A news reporter - trying to get a report from somebody in the neighborhood - accidently dialed the house and got the shooter - her reason? "I don't like Mondays" (or words to that effect.)
By now we have seen the reflexive reactions to these most recent unthinkable acts. Calls for new gun controls - Blaming Satanic influences - Music - TV - Movies - Whatever - An outside influnce seems to be turning some kids into monsters right in front of us.
This essay stopped me in my tracks. It reminded me that one of the common threads in many of these past horrors has been the words "loner" "Misfit" "Kept to themselves" The Santee shooter by his peers - the Columbine shooters by their peers, and finally by their own choice.
Mondays for most of us in High School were the start of another dreary week - or a chance to socialize - hang with your buds.
And for some - it is the start of the next 5 days of torment - the taunts - the humiliations - of utter rejection - the daily reminders of failure and futility - An UNTOUCHABLE.
If you do nothing - it will never stop.
If you complain - you will likely be ignored by the administration - and have the label of "squealer" added to the blacklist against you.
If you fight back - you're likely to get pounded into the dust.
There is nothing more terrifying than a person who has lost all hope - cannot see any happy future - and no longer feels that they really have a thing to lose of value (Like their lives) "You have done your worst to me - and I remain - now I will do my worst to you"
To give the movie example - The movie "Carrie" was a film version of the "Day of the outcast" The savage retribution against the smirkers and tormenters at the end of the film - An overwhelming payback to even the scales.
No we see the reality played out before us. Is TV - or movies - or guns - or M. Manson's music to blame? I'm afraid that we look for the outside source - the evil influence - because it's easy and sometime politically expedient. We as a society may be too afraid to face inward - that the reasons might be much closer than what our child see's on TV or listens to on the radio.
The chance that it is a part of our society that has gone horribly wrong - that convinces a few that they are nothing and have nothing to lose.
"And Beweep my outcast state"
I don't know the answer - I wish I did - but that essay with the use of the word "outcast" really hit me hard.
posted on March 9, 2001 05:03:03 AM new
I think the essay makes a good point, nutspec. I agree that there does appear to be a very real conflict between popular culture's message and acceptable societal norms. How can this not create cognitive dissonance? The peaks and valleys of typical teenage emotions can be difficult enough without the additional burden of an indistinct behavioral standard.
Part of a likely solution may be found in the words omitted from the second line of Shakespeare's sonnet you included at the end of your post.
When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state...
posted on March 9, 2001 06:21:28 AM new
nutspec, that is a really good point. I had forgotten about that girl the Boomtown Rats sang about--it was in the mid 80s. So it seems things started coming to a head around that time for bullied children.
There have always been loners. The loners, since the 80s, are becoming more and more deadly as they take revenge into their own hands. Why didn't the pre-80s loners, for the most part, not strike back with deadly force?
xardon says "conflict between popular culture's message and acceptable societal norms" does affect the kids. While not totally to blame, xardon is right, popular culture is twisted.
So pop culture aside, what else is different for the post-80s outcast--compared to pre-80s?
posted on March 9, 2001 06:36:40 AM new
The kid's psychotic. That's all there is to it. He gave enough signals for everyone to see.
State hospital for him until age 26.
posted on March 9, 2001 09:23:18 AM new
I think you miss the point, krs. There are born psychotics, I'm sure, but I tend to think that there are few of them and the rest are a result of societal factors. The question here isn't whether or not the kid is psychotic, but what has made them that way.
posted on March 9, 2001 09:35:06 AM newState hospital for him until age 26.
No, krs. Our esteemed County DA (not) is charging him as an adult under the recently passed Prop. 21. The kid has just turned 15 one month ago, and he is looking at a 500 year prison term, in our adult prison system. It appears there is no hope for him.
posted on March 9, 2001 09:41:57 AM new
Incidentally, the Grossmont School District has banned the 4 kids who told the news media that they thought Williams was joking about shooting up the school. The reason given is "for their own protection" which of course demonstrates a tacit and unspoken condoning of any retribution that these kids might face from others if they return to school. The School District has reiterated over and over that this is "not a punishment". What a bunch of baloney.
posted on March 9, 2001 10:41:53 AM new
Perhaps if the school officials took the same time and consideration for those being picked on and banning the tormentors, the shooting wouldnt have happened. They shut the door after the horse got out.
What does one do, when one goes to counselors, and nothing is done. One goes to parent(s) and still nothing is done. One goes to teachers, nothing is done. One asks the tormentor(s) "why?" and gets it worse for asking or showing weakness by attempting to question. One goes to friends, and they are either in the same boat, or laugh it off.
According to the news, this kid was picked on alot. And it is considered "the norm" by the other students that many will be targeted and bullied. Where were/are the school officials? Out in the pasture with the horse that got out, locking the barn door.
posted on March 9, 2001 10:46:37 AM new
Who, in these forums, was the bully? Who was the victim? And how did you handle it? Did you get help from "adults"? Or did you just "take it"?
posted on March 9, 2001 11:27:46 AM new
A big part of the problem, I think, is the Lord of the Flies atmosphere that schools not only foster but encourage. Sports teams, ostensibly meant to promote admirable qualities, more often than not turn into elitist cliques. Ditto for cheerleading squads, etc. By elevating kids certain kids to local godhood because they participate in, or excel at, sports, or because they are handsome or pretty, creates a dynamic destined to cause other kids stress and pain -- a social structure called "us and them.". Even the casual competitions -- the choosing of teams for basketball in gym class, for example -- can leave lasting impressions on those who don't measure up to the ideal, the ones chosen last.
Some people brush off the social darwinism of the education microcosm and say, well, that's what the world's about, kids have to get used to it. I say bulls**t. Until it is changed, I see schools as giving tacit approval to the manufacturing of outcasts -- and I hold the schools as responsible for these shootings as the kids who pull the triggers.
Granted, some kids are emotionally troubled even before they enter the school system. They come from homes where they may have been physically or sexually abused ... homes where they are not loved or respected ... homes in which the parents are alcoholics or drug addicts ... homes without hope.
But instead of finding support at school from their teachers and peers, they enter a system where emotional vulnerability rings out like a dinner bell. As I see it, the school system is designed to weed them out from the mainstream. Once weeded out, their disposal is left in the hands of their peers.
Schools need to identify these kids. They need to protect them. They need to help reintegrate them into the main, not encourage traditions and practices that almost guarantee their alienation.
Schools also need zero tolerance policies on bullying. They need to take the bullies and place them in mandatory counseling with competent school counselors to find out exactly what their problem is. Management of bullies can't be left in the hands of parents, for almost always it is the parents who create bullies. Frequently the parents are bullies themselves.
Kids go to school to learn -- not to compete, not to struggle to survive, not to have their hearts broken or their spirits crushed. Unfortunately, it's that last part that schools specialize in.
posted on March 9, 2001 11:38:31 AM new
"They are just being kids". Good post spazmodeus. It starts in 3rd or 4th grade. In kindergarten, they all have the same blankets, the same graham crackers, the same hopscotch sidewalk. The "quest" for "peerdom" starts soon after.
I saw a woman on television last night, teaching kids in a class at school how to "waylay" a potential bully by responding to jabs and insults with humor. Like, its up to the victim to "charm" or laugh it off to avoid being hurt mentally or physically by the tormentor. What about teaching the bully to understand his/her need to bully? Why the focus on the kid with the horn rimmed glasses? The skinny one? The fat one? The nerdy one? Who says they are nerds? The peers?
How about those who stood in line to play kickball in the playground and the most popular kid (i,e. jock, bully, leader) gets to pick the team mates and YOU are last picked? What does that tell all the other students watching? It sets a standard that will follow forever. "Dont pick him/her...they are always chosen last". And what does the teacher do? Stand there, smile, and condone it.
posted on March 9, 2001 11:43:56 AM newSchools need to identify these kids. They need to protect them. They need to help reintegrate them into the main, not encourage traditions and practices that almost guarantee their alienation. But instead of finding support at school from their teachers and peers, they enter a system where emotional vulnerability rings out like a dinner bell. As I see it, the school system is designed to weed them out from the mainstream. Once weeded out, their disposal is left in the hands of their peers.
Wonderful anology. And right on.
now cut and paste it and send it to every newspaper/newscast you can lay your hands on.
[ edited by Hepburn on Mar 9, 2001 11:45 AM ]
posted on March 9, 2001 11:52:23 AM new
But kids being bullied in school is not a new trend. I was bullied as a kid for being shorter than all the other kids (called "shrimp," "midget," you name it), but always attempted to laugh it off.
Why are the bullied kids suddenly killing their tormentors? Easier access to weapons? Uninvolved parents? Mental illness? A little of each would be my guess.
Can you clarify "school bashing?" Do you mean "typical bashing that goes on in schools," or are you referring to my post which is critical of schools as "school bashing?"
I was referring to several previous posts which implied that somehow schools are an entity which is to blame for the social ills in society and therefore a convenient scapegoat. Your post was one of those.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:18:05 PM new
And that is the crux of another matter. Where it all truly begins. So many sides, all resulting in one climax. It begins at home. Yes, easier access to guns, the violence on tv, the "its ok" attitude of parents too busy working two jobs to see what is taking place, or could take place. Teachers are not supposed to be the parent too, but they ARE seeing more of the children than the parent, and have to be the eyes and ears for those left in their care. Back in the 50's and sixties, what did kids do when being picked on? What was the difference between then and now? For one, violence was not so common. Yes, "shoot em out" and westerns were common. Horror movies with monsters galore. But the difference from then and now is, it wasnt "ok" to act those things out in RL. Imagination was left to rule, as to blood and guts. Now, there is no imagination...its shows all the gory details. It all starts at home. What kids can watch, what is right, what is wrong, interest in the daily school activities, friends the kid hangs with, the music they listen to the shows they watch. Then it moves on to the schools. And from there...what you get when they are adults, to pass on to their children what they themselves were taught. Vicious circle.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:22:10 PM new
I posted what you may call "school bashing" also. Been there, done that. All through school, I was told to "get in my cage" by a certain teacher. I would talk to the principal when being picked on. I would ask a kinder teacher for assistance, and got none. My teachers and that school saw more of me than my mom or dad did. They were the adults in charge of most of my day (the school). And they were no help. Im sure it isnt any different today than it was yesterday.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:30:30 PM new
There certainly are ills in society, Dan ... Thing is, schools and teachers are entrusted with our children. They have a responsibility to protect them from those ills physically and emotionally during the school day. And as long as they abdicate that responsibility, I will be critical.
I have heard of some parents today suing school systems that fail to protect their kids.
Sad that it's come to that, but maybe a few multi-million dollar settlements is what it'll take to make the almighty school systems sit up and take notice of what's going on.
Somehow I doubt even that will have an impact, though. Heck, we have all these school shootings going on, and my local school system hasn't done a single thing to prepare for such an eventuality. Granted, it's rare that a kid shoots up a school. But it's both arrogant and negligent of any school to presume that it won't happen here.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:43:35 PM new
The local high school here is ripe for something to happen. But "not in our town" is the attitude. "Not our kids".
posted on March 9, 2001 12:48:51 PM new
Spazmodeous
You have defined the cause of the problem
so well! Schools are letting too many
children fall through the cracks and that
is where the problems begin. I also place
the blame for the school shootings on the
schools.
One of my children told me, "there are three
groups at school; the jocks, the nerds and
the druggies - and the kids that are not
accepted into these groups are really lost."
In my opinion too many parents are blamed for problems that originate outside the home,
primarily the school.
As Hillary wrote in her book, It Takes a
Village (to raise one). I think that it
also takes a village to ruin one.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:52:27 PM new
Other than individual perception, I see no proof that anyone involved in education has abdicated any trust. I would rather say that most individuals involved in education go far beyond any requirements in attempting to work with and help children. That is only based on my personal experiences and observations however. The schools were not intended to function as surrogate parents. As with other social institutions a disproportionately large amount of available resources is devoted to children with special needs, i.e., problems of one sort or another. I am not criticising that fact, but I am pointing out that schools today I think, on the whole are performing remarkably well under the circumstances. The circumstances include meeting the specific academic and social obligations legally mandated at the national, state, and local levels in relation to the funding that is available and the legal restrictions placed on their authority to act on individual matters.
I have no doubt that public education needs to be improved in many respects, nor that there are both individuals and school systems which are ineffective. However, I have seen no specific suggestions of how those inadequacies can be identified and then corrected. Thus the use of the term "bashing."
posted on March 9, 2001 01:35:24 PM new
Antiquary,
I understand your position.
But, the quality of education available depends on funding.
Location is primary. Schools differ from state to state and from
county to county and from area to area within that county based on
real estate values.
In a local High School in my area, for example, the group commonly
referred to as the "druggies" spend most of their time under the
stairwell, smoking pot, which is provided by the school janitor.
So, if your child does not excel academically and belong in the
"nerd" group and doesn't play sports and belong in the "jock" group,
then he is left to use drugs. If your child doesn't use drugs then
he is virtually an outcast. This is the beginning of a problem that
can lead to the violence that we are seeing today.
This is just one problem...I could give you several others.
I am aware of the multiplicity of problems that exist with students within the framework of the school day. I do not believe, however, that those problems are caused by the school system as a distreet entity nor that they can be held any more responsible for the solutions to those problems than parents or other social institutions.
If there is evidence that the students are indeed smoking pot and the janitor is providing it and further evidence that the school system is aware of and condoning this behavior then I would think that as a responsible citizen you should notify the police and the school board or local governing body of the school system.
posted on March 9, 2001 02:02:51 PM new
I think it's a problem much too complex to be blamed solely on the school system or solely on the parents. That said, I've noticed, and my friends who teach have noticed that there's been a decided shift of the burdon of proof in recent years. When we were growing up, should one of our teachers call home to tell our parents that we'd misbehaved, the burdon of proof was on us, and our parents would deal with us appropriately. Now, however, the burdon of proof is constantly thrown back on the teacher, to the degree that many students, in the eyes of their parents, bear no responsibility for their own behavior. It's the rise of the "not my kid" sentiment. (One teacher friend reported that another common response made by parents of misbehaving students was, "We like to let him express himself." This same teacher expressed a great deal of frustration at the over-medicating of children---lots of kids in his school, he said, were on Ritalin unnecessarily.)
One of my friends who teaches 8th grade noticed a year or so ago that one student was constantly being picked on and ridiculed cruelly by one particular girl. Neither student was in her class, but she knew them both. The victim of the bullying was a young man with a learning disability and the bully was a girl known to her as a troublemaker. Having reassured the boy that she'd help, the next time she caught the young woman bullying him, she pulled her aside and told her to never again bother him. She added that she was throwing the girl into after school detention for the next week.
"You can't do that! You're not my teacher!" the girl argued.
"Oh, yes I can!" my friend replied.
That night the girl's mother called my friend, lashing out at her for her undue punishment of her daughter. She actually used the phrase, "Kids will be kids." The woman was abusive and argumentative and refused to acknowledge that her daughter's behavior was inappropriate. My friend replied that it was simply unacceptible to harrass and abuse other students, and added "now that I've spoken with you, I know where your daughter gets her attitude."
The mother was speechless.
The bully served her detention time.
And that was the end of the bullying. The next time my friend saw the boy with learning disability, he was simply beaming.
I guess my point is that even for teachers who care enough to get involved with their students, it's an uphill battle nowadays. The blame can't be laid exclusively at the feet of teachers any more than it can be laid exclusively at the feet of the parents I've described here. I hardly know where to begin.
