posted on May 7, 2001 03:33:15 PM
There is a bill in the congress designed to protect teachers from lawsuits in corporal punishment situations. The bill has widespread support in bible belt states, including Texas, and Dumbya promised during his campaign to support it if elected. Well, he wasn't elected, but he still intends to support it.
"President Bush worries a great deal about such suits, and he promised, during his campaign, to support a Teacher Protection Act, to safeguard teachers against "frivolous" or "nuisance" suits arising, in part, from legal corporal punishment.In February, Senator Mitch McConnell introduced the Teacher Liability Protection Act.
All the major educational associations, including the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association, have argued that this act is unnecessary, since teachers are already protected by insurance through their school districts and professional groups. They point out, moreover, that in states where such acts have been passed — like Texas, where corporal punishment is legal and more than 80,000 students are paddled annually according to the most recent statistics — they effectually license a higher rate of corporal punishment."
posted on May 7, 2001 04:05:57 PM
There is absolutely no excuse for a teacher or any other member of the
community, including parents to hit a child. It only serves to humiliate the child while teaching the child and all the other children
who witness the event that this type of agressive behavior is right.
Any increased insurance offered to teachers to reduce their liability is wrong and unnecessary.
Why should a teacher be given any more protection or license to hit a child than any other member of a community?
posted on May 7, 2001 04:30:16 PM
My wife is a teacher. They will give corporal punishment only under the strictest of guidelines. The corporal punishment is a last resort. The parents have to authorize the school to give such punishment, it can't be done without their permission. The principal is the only one that gets to use a paddle on the child and there has to be a witness when it is done.
Lucky for some children I'm not a teacher, some of the stories she tells are hard to believe, but the other teachers tell me similar stories.
posted on May 7, 2001 04:36:50 PM
Children who need Corporal Punishment at school should have the parent or parents come to the school to give it to them! That way, the government is not in the business of using violence against our children and the parents can take full responsiblility. Imagine the school calling you saying that your kid is acting up so badly that they ned you to come to the school to dewal with it. How many times would your job allow that, I wonder? Would parents who don't give a damn and let the schools raise their kids actually have more involvment if they werre made to come to the school that often?
posted on May 7, 2001 04:43:02 PMChildren who need Corporal Punishment at school should have the parent or parents come to the school to give it to them!
My wife says that parents get tired of being called away from work time after time after time, and that is when they authorize the school to act on their behalf. Most parents don't authorize the corporal punishment until they've gotten feed up with being called to the school and their employer has begun to complain.
posted on May 7, 2001 04:54:09 PM
It's my opinion that teachers should be trained to handle any behavioral problem that happens at school without calling parents and without resorting to violence.
I can't imagine adults and especially adults
who are educated to teach children having to
resort to these tactics.
posted on May 7, 2001 05:09:15 PM
If only they had that license when my kids were little..... I mean for me.... I would.... naaaaaa I wouldn't ..... I would...
naaaaaa...... Well!!! sometimes, YES!!
And sometimes NOW as my youngest is 20 years old now, and she needs something!
On the serious side to this, when I went to parochial school, it ain't no myth about those nuns!!!!! ACCCCCK! Spank? heck no, how bout smack your hands with a ruler, OUCH! and no permission that I know of was given!
(that and having to measure the length of the uniform skirt, to make sure it touched the floor when you kneeled, EVERY morning! )
posted on May 7, 2001 05:10:44 PM
We moved around a lot when I was a kid. Because corporal punishment was still practised, my dad would take us to register us in the new school and inform the principal (they were all men back then) that if any teacher (they were mostly female back then) put a hand one either of his kids, he'd come back and give the principal ten times what the teacher did to whichever kid.
I grew up unafraid of most adults ('cept dear old dad of course).
posted on May 7, 2001 05:46:37 PM
Size question is not NP? I was thinking, if saddie999 is only three feet tall, everyone is in danger. But, if that was true, discretion would be very wise. Put your ruler away Helen.
Tis true, and no myth about those nuns, and well ok I'm dating myself here, but that was in the early-mid 60's they were still doing that. And those UNIFORMS!!!!! accccccccck
However, now that I had to go thru it, I believe uniforms should be go into a bill for congress that even public schools should
have them. After going thru elementary, middle school and high school with my girls, I would have LOVED to see UNIFORMS.... my one daughter would not go into a WalMart, or Target or the like! Thats my little primma donna however she has gotten a little better with age
Now my oldest who is in Vet Med School HAS to wear a uniform of sorts, she has to wear scrubs every single day, course those things are comfortable!
posted on May 7, 2001 05:59:16 PM
After this humorous break, you may want to discuss the topic which
is, should Bush offer additional legal protection to teachers and educators who beat children in order to control their behavior.
posted on May 7, 2001 06:05:53 PM
Oh that topic...
Well, actually no, if I had children in school now, I would not want them spanked by teachers or any school officials. If the offense be so bad, that it warranted corporal punishment, I would want a phone call for sure, and I would want to to the disciplining. Did for 18+ years alone-2 kids, don't need the school dishing out spankings.
posted on May 7, 2001 06:44:44 PM
Sadie999 - As I have posted before the first day I went to 5th grade in North Carolina I refused to pray with the class. The teacher would start the prayer with a wish and each child would add a wish with special brownie points for things like blessing the teacher or America or silly crap about their dog who has gone to heaven and then the teacher would end it and say amen.
I was marched into the hall and beaten across the backs of the legs with what looked like a cricket bat.
I cursed them (literally not bad language)calling on God to give them full retribution for how they were treating me which of course increased their righteous zeal.
The next day my Mom came in and in an almost inaudible voice informed the teacher that if I came home with welts on me again she would take a little drive to visit the teachers home and shoot everything living thing she could find dead down to the pets to cleanse the earth of such scum. She emphasized her seriousness with a big blue revolver that she casually displayed and did not even point at the teacher. She wanted the teacher to affirm she understood since Damn Yankees are hard to understand some times, and the teacher was quick to assure her the point was well taken.
I'm amazed she did not wet her little drawers. I never had to worry about being beat up again.
She would never ask Dad to talk to her because he would probably think he had to be sure he had her attention first and he came out of the Rangers on a mental discharge so he tended to be a little harsh shall we say.
posted on May 7, 2001 06:59:16 PM
Why not pass a bill allowing supervisors to beat employees and police to beat prisoners? I mean if assault is a legitamite way to modify behavior it's really cowardly to limit it to small inexperienced people who can not fight back well. I am sure they can find some scriptural referance that seems to support it. This government keeps moving in the direction of affirming we are property anyway. If they can haul your butt down town and lock you up for jaywalking or not wearing your seat belt it seems a small step.
posted on May 7, 2001 07:03:35 PM
oh my God gravid, thats awful! Even the nuns weren't that bad! Sorry!
(btw NC is one of my fav states on the east coast )
Helen- I can't take all the credit for my kids, still have one thats 'trying to find herself BS HA!' (remember that? LOL) its not going to last long in this house!
No, I know its been done in the past, and I'm sure its still being done somewhere here in the U.S. but, no, corporal punishment, IF needed, should be left to the parents. And not talking about abusing children, a spanking now and then, yes, some kids need it.
posted on May 7, 2001 07:37:10 PM
There is nothing wrong with a swat on the butt from parent to child. Nothing wrong with smacking a hand either, when it reaches for something that might burn, or pinch or bite. Beating is one thing. Smacking is another.
edited to add that I would never give permissin for corporal punishment. Its up to the parent to dish out punishment, whether its time out or grounding. Or a smack on the butt (depending on the age).
[ edited by Hepburn on May 7, 2001 07:39 PM ]
posted on May 7, 2001 07:44:14 PM
I got very few spanking. If I got one it was mostly symbolic that I had messed up so bad there was nothing more that could be said.
The few times I did get it was because I risked hurting myself or others.
My folks would never have left marks on me much less left me like the school did were I could not sit or lay down on my back. That was one of the few times they gave me a little nip of bourbon to help me get to sleep laying on my belly.
posted on May 7, 2001 07:55:34 PM
On a positive note, my parents (and the sisters and brothers at school) never failed to garner my attention after a well-timed swat....
To their credit, it was almost exclusively carried out in private (the infamous cloak room *G*)......I may have been smarting but I was never humiliated...
If my new wife and I are lucky enough to have a child late in life, we have already decided to send him/her to private school....don't want the little whippersnapper to miss out on all the fun we had...
hehehe
Pat
PS.....I never liked my parents much as a child but I respected them....and love them, as an adult, for the values they've given me...
posted on May 7, 2001 08:19:15 PM
When I was in High School we had a male librarian who was homosexual and he let his nails grow much longer than men usually do.
He loved any excuse to take kids in the hall and paddle them. One day in the library one of the BIG guys on the football team whispered
something to another person at the table and this librarian grabbed him by the back of his neck digging his nails in hard enough to break the skin. He was starting to say something but never got a chance. This kid turned and hit him as hard as I have ever seen anyone hit to this day 30+ years later.
He hit him so hard he lofted him clean over the counter behind without touching it and so hard he left a shoe behind on the floor.
He was hit so hard he actually could not remember when he came to what had happened to him. In fact he told the other teachers the whole day was gone. When he came back the whole side of his head from the bottom of his jaw to the corner of his eye was black and blue. They tried to talk to the boy about it and he told them it was not open to debate that if the (insert homophobic slur) ever touched him again he was dead. He was not suspended at all. The school probably failed to support the librarian because of his sexual orientation when in fact he would have been just as big a jerk as a hetrosexual, and no more worthy of shielding.
however she has gotten a little better with age 