posted on May 14, 2001 07:46:30 AM new"I don't want my TAX DOLLARS wasted on all of these Welfare Programs!! goes the repetitive republican refrain....
but hardly a peep about farm subsidy millions that are paid to millionaires every year.
The cost, and the fact that the money goes mostly to a select few, will be at the crux
of the debate over how to reshape subsidies.
"The cost of this program is astonishing," Mr. Collins said. "Any person engaged in
small business in America would be amazed looking at this. Their jaws would drop
at the money farmers receive."
Mr. Bezner makes no apologies for accepting the money. To his mind, government
subsidies help the American consumer by making sure grocery stores are stocked
with inexpensive food.
"That government money is keeping cheap cereal on the shelves in New York City,"
he said.
And no one expects farmers to lose their subsidies — not with the friends they have
in Congress.
The top leaders of both parties represent farm states that rely on subsidies. In the
Senate, the majority leader is from Mississippi and the minority leader from South
Dakota. In the House, the speaker is from Illinois and the minority leader from
Missouri. The relevant committees are headed by representatives from farm states;
the chairman of the House Agriculture Committee is Representative Larry Combest,
a Republican who represents Mr. Bezner's district in the northern plains of Texas.
"Look at the Nasdaq: those companies are going out of business and we don't open
up the Treasury to them," Mr. Collins said. "But Congress chose not to let farmers
bear that kind of pain."
posted on May 14, 2001 07:54:36 AM new
Then the title to your thread is wrong, as you put, that was in this article, both parties
I don't know exactly how much they get, do you? One of my best friends from high school married a farmer in Indiana, and I know she talked about the subsidaries they received at one time, and I don't believe it was millions by far.
posted on May 14, 2001 08:07:45 AM new
From someone who is the village blacksmith for a number of "millionaire" farmers, take it from me...
They earn every nickel.....
Every see a millionaire climb up on a D8 and rip the soil....yep, they do. Or, climb under it when something goes wrong...
There's a big difference between a dot.com and a farm....we can live without computers (well, I'd have a hard time, or so my wife says..*G*) but we now grow nearly all of our own and a significant portion of the world's food.
Within a 50 mile radius of my house, most of the perishable vegetables in the US are grown, packed and shipped.....these farmers, large and small, are surely in it for the profit but they also are proud to provide America and the world with such a neccessary commodity.
In that endevour, the government has seen fit to attempt to ensure a consistent flow of these commodities to the world's markets and, through financial incentives, has kept many small and large farmers solvent to ensure the diversity and competition which keeps these markets relatively stable.
I personally would prefer that everyone make it on his or her own, from welfare recipient to oil company.....all we can do to this end as citizens is elect officials who purport to represent our interests and vote our conscience both on the ballot and in our everyday lives.
To that end, seek out and support the local small farmers in your area (a great place is right at the farm or local farmer's market) and ask them straight out if they receive government help and, if so, how it helps them compete....it might start an interesting conversation...
posted on May 14, 2001 08:43:34 AM new
Most of these farmers are paper millionaires who don't have any fancy lifestyle or share the same outlook as someone who has his small business in the form of a corperation.
If they don't have very good advice - and a lot don't - they have no chance of passing the farm along to their kids like was expected for so many generations because the death tax will require selling the farm to pay the bill. This sort of action moving the land into the grasp of the rich systematicaly has been what lead to the fall of many other governments when the poor were finally disillutioned with being stripped of what little their family had as security. Since the portion of the population in agriculture is so low here it will never happen. But in a couple more generations when most of the land is owned by big businesses you will see the same sort of price manipulation for food you see for gasoline today.
To wit:
My next door neighbor owns 80 acres of prime Thompson raisin grapes. The property, including their home, is likely worth just a little over $1M, not counting their farm machinery and liquid assets.
They are elderly and are in the process of working out a transfer to their children to hopefully avoid the major estate tax hit upon their deaths.
Because of the lack of aggreement on raisin prices between the packers and growers here last year, they produced, picked, processed and delivered their crop last year and are just now, 8 months later, being paid (at around 100.00/acre over their production costs) for that crop. They have had to pay for this years production costs out of their savings.
No wonder so many of my neighbors are ripping out their grapes...
I've seen nearly 300 acres of grapes within one mile of me turn into almonds since moving here 12 years ago...hopefully, they'll do better but I doubt it...all are small (under 1000 total acres) farms.
Most aren't poor by my measurement but live as you describe....modestly...
posted on May 14, 2001 09:29:51 PM new
My hat goes off to farmers - they work long hours and deserve whatever help they can get from the government.
In KRS's defense, however, I think he meant the farms that are run by rich individuals so they can get the government monies - not the true farmers who actually work their land.
Please tell the farmers not to rip out all the grapes - I am addicted to green seedless grapes! Almonds are OK, but grapes are my life!
posted on May 14, 2001 11:12:00 PM new
The true 'farmers' are not those corporations that have over the years bought up family farms, but those who still own their own land!!
Problem is, Congress does NOT recognize the difference! (or maybe they do, and want to give the breaks to Big Business..who'd thunk it!)
The family farm is going away here in the upper Midwest...al the corporate folks are shelling out BIG $$ to buy out the locals.
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
posted on May 15, 2001 10:25:24 PM new
My problem is the Republican hand-out -- opps! I mean, hand-up to those oil refineries that Bush wants to lavish with our tax dollars. We can afford it though -- Bush cut the nuts off of renewable resources research in the budget, so there's money to go for Oil Companies.
posted on May 16, 2001 04:21:14 AM new
camachinist - perhaps you should talk with your neighbors about selling their raisens directly to the consumers using the internet.
If they sold anywhere near the wholesale price they would probably have everything pre-sold before it is ready to harvest. There are restaurants and instritutions who would buy in large quanities also.
Perhaps they think they would have to pack 1 lb bags - but if you go to a wholesale club like Sam's Club or Costco you will see people are willing to buy huge containers if the price is lower.
That's a good idea, one I would likely have tried already if I had been in their shoes (I hate groups telling me what to do *G*)
The only difficulty in this case is, when a farmer goes against the co-op, especially in the raisin business, he/she is going against neighbors and fellow community members. It can be a good way to become a hermit in ones own community.
Additionally, as raisins need to be washed and processed before they are ready for the fresh market, a farmer would have to install this equipment on-site to process their own raisins. It isn't rocket science but does take a fair capital investment.
Most modest sized raisin farmers shake (get the big trash out) their own raisins before putting them in bins to send to the packer but the packer does the bulk of the work.
It is possible, if the administration brought back the investment tax credit, that some of these type investments would become economically feasible. Recouping 2000.00 of a 20,000.00 machine directly from the tax bill would help many a small farmer out (I know it helped me a bunch when capitalizing my business back in the early 80's).
But that would return us to the original topic...welfare...which some would likely percieve this as...
Oh, well...
Thanks for a good idea though....I will ask my farmer friends what they're doing to use the internet to market themselves...
