posted on May 16, 2001 08:08:04 AM
"Bush Homophobia Outed..."Republican Gov. Rick Perry signed a new hate-crimes law Friday, capping an emotional issue that has lingered for nearly a decade..."--Austin--American Statesman, 5/12/01.
Two years ago the hate crimes law, including crimes of hate against homosexuals, was shot down by Bush due to his politics and his
homophobia. Yesterday, the law passed both Texas legislative chambers and was signed into law. It's pretty simple, even for the more conservative members of the Log Cabin Republicans. Under Bush, the hate crimes law is defeated; with Bush gone, the hate crimes law is passed. If there is any doubt, however, that Bush is not alone in his homophobia, one need only look at the last minute change in the bill that conservatives managed to get. Hate crimes against "sexual orientation" was changed to hate crimes against "sexual preference, "mirroring a recent study reported nationally indicating that some homsexuals can change their orientation to straight if they so desire. It turned out that the study was just one more example of conservative bogus science. Buried down in the story was the fact that nearly all of the folks selected for the study were found by anti-gay conservative groups, were highly-motivated members of anti-gay religious groups, and had been involved in anti-gay therapy programs for over five years. Some study. Getting back to Bush and Texas Republicans, the conservative members of the legislature argued against the hate crimes bill because they said it targeted certain groups for protection while leaving out other groups, and that was wrong. Florence Shapiro, a long-time Bush-backer and a major critic of the bill, even cried on the floor of the legislature when accused of being homophobic. The hypocrisy of such critics became clear when they insisted that "sexual orientation" in the bill be changed to "sexual preference," the preferred conservative homophobic position. As for Governor Perry, the conservative who owes his position to the financial backing of the ultra-conservatives in his party, he signed the bill because he wants to be thought of as a moderate, since he's up for election for the first time next year. If you want to thank someone for getting the bill passed, thank Stella Byrd, the mother of the slain James Byrd, Jr., for whom the hate crimes bill is named. To her credit, she refused to allow hate crimes against sexual orientation to be removed from the bill, making it that much more difficult to get passed."
posted on May 16, 2001 06:10:17 PM
That's unbelievable.
I think that hate crimes should all be federal cases. Then, the Federal Hate Crimes Prevention Act would prevent abuse that may occur on a state level.
And Stella Byrd should be highly commended
for her efforts to go beyond the race related issue and insist on the inclusion of hate crimes against sexual orientation in the
state bill.
posted on May 16, 2001 09:59:04 PM
Hate crimes against "sexual orientation" was changed to hate crimes against "sexual preference, "mirroring a recent study reported nationally indicating that some homsexuals can change their orientation to straight if they so desire
>>
Now this just pisses me off in a big way. Would someone tell me why a person would choose to be gay? Being gay is like walking around with a huge target on your back saying "taunt me, beat me, kill me." I did not vote for Bush because I don't think the man is capable of running a hot dog stand much less this country and also because he does not seem to be gay-friendly. I am not gay but I have had lots of gay friends and they did not choose to be gay, nobody makes a choice to be gay. A gay person cannot change the fact that he/she is gay no more than a person can change the color of their skin. Of course all crimes have a degree of hate to them, you don't kill someone because you love them, but when a group of racists tie a black man to the back of a truck and drag him however many miles because he is black or two homophobes beat a gay man, tie him to a fence post and leave him to die you have something more than hate, it is something so contemptible I can't even give it a name. Hate is too soft a word for it. We need to have tougher laws passed in this country to deal with people who think it is OK to kill person who is different from them. We need to teach people it is not OK to use words such as fag, queer, nigger when referring to someone. If we allow politicians to start taking away rights, no matter how small, from gays then one day it will be blacks, hispanics, etc. and then one day it will be women because in terms of power these groups are still the minority.
****Edited because I am so tired I can hardly type****
[ edited by ki9272649 on May 16, 2001 10:04 PM ]
posted on May 16, 2001 10:38:22 PM
I am curious as to one thing. Now that Texas has passed the hate crimes bill, will people who kill out of hate (as opposed to love, of course) be sentenced to die twice? Perhaps double or triple life instead of just one life sentence? Weren't some of you complaining that Texas was a little tough on crime under Bush as it was?
I wouldn't be against hate crimes legislation at all, if I could just see the significance.
Let me get this right: If my brother were killed because of a debt, the murderer would get less time than someone else who killed a guy because he was gay. Is that fair to my brother? Why is the gay man's life worth more than my brother's? As it stands without hate crimes legislation, people are sentenced based on the act comitted - in this case, and in James Byrd's case, murder.
How many times can you sentence someone to die? Or to life in prison?
So many people are so scared to be called a racist or a homophobe, that they fail to use logic. Not everyone against affirmative action or reparations or hate crimes is a racist or a homophobe. Most of the time, the laws just don't seem logical to them.
posted on May 16, 2001 10:45:14 PM
Do you place a value on a life by the penalty for taking it? I doubt that.
Hate crime legislation insures enhanced penalties and makes plea bargaining much more difficult. Like 'use a gun' laws, it adds to the assurance that a person so convicted will serve a full sentence and that, hopefully, would deter the person aforehand.
posted on May 17, 2001 12:21:32 AMjlpiece:"Weren't some of you complaining that Texas was a little tough on crime under Bush as it was?"
I don't know about others, but I never did. I always thought that Bush was too damned smug about just how "right" the convictions were and I know that too many people get railroaded in the justice system. For Bush to be that smug, that sure, he must have had his conscience removed long ago.
"Why is the gay man's life worth more than my brother's?"
It's not a matter of that, no matter what knowledgeable person that you ask would answer otherwise. What it amounts to is that the excuses for mass murdering by governments are all too common and Hate Crimes legislation is there to address it. One does not have to be murdered in order for Hate Crimes laws to act, you know. In addition, Hate Crimes are not solely about homosexuals either, in case you weren't aware of it.
Yet, a certain segment of our society thinks that to target someone for crime based upon their sexual orientation is perfectly fine, just as many felt that way last century about murdering blacks, and in Germany and Russia this century against Jews. At some point, jlpiece, this targeting of innocent people based upon such stupid reasons has got to be made illegal to those who think its perfectly fine to do what they are doing. Was Mathew Sheppard killed by people who thought that it was the wrong thing to do? Heck, the murderers were actually SUPPRIZED that they got arrested for the crime! They thought that it was LEGAL and a GOOD THING to kill him! Worse, is when less than murder happens, too many times the local police won't do a damned thing, agreeing with the criminals! How do you drive home the point then, jlpiece?
Well, if our schools won't tell teach them its wrong, if the churches won't teach them it's wrong, and if the other citizens in that area will not teach them that it's wrong, then we must pass laws that will drive the point home. When swastikas get painted on churches attended by people of color; when headstones of deceased Jews are kicked over, broken, and desecrated; when homosexuals are beaten up just because they walk around unafraid and the sheriff and deputies all laugh about it and do nothing, then there will be laws for outsiders to step in and make sure that justice happen.
So, jlpiece, if your brother got murdered for $50 he owed someone, it would get investigated. If your brother was gay and was killed for it, it might never get investigated and the murderers never brought to justice. How fair is that?
You know, it usually takes an individual of
female orientation to straighten out a problem.
My heart really goes out to Stella Byrd...
to have her son murdered in such a horrible
way. The fact that she had the courage and
sensitivity to insure that this bill included hate crimes against sexual orientation is truly commendable.
Helen
[ed for sp]
[ edited by Hjw on May 17, 2001 05:58 AM ]
[ edited by Hjw on May 17, 2001 06:06 AM ]
As you used phrasing such as "Perhaps double or triple life instead of just one life sentence?", and "would get less time", and "Or to life in prison?" do you think that I might have understood you to mean other sentences as well?
posted on May 17, 2001 09:24:57 AM"What it amounts to is that the excuses for mass murdering by governments are all too common and Hate Crimes legislation is there to address it."-borillar
Have you uncovered some secret plot to mass murder all the gays by the government? I must have missed that. What are you referring to borillar?
"a certain segment of our society thinks that to target someone for crime based upon their sexual orientation is perfectly fine"-borillar
There is a certain segment of society that thinks it is ok to assualt, steal from or murder anybody. The laws against that have not changed their minds. It has always been illegal to assault, rob or kill ANYBODY, whether they are black or white or kurdish, gay or straight or hermaphrodite. These hate crime laws don't make these thing s illegal, they are already illegal.
[i]"Gosh jlpiece,
Were you only talking about death sentencing?[/i]-krs
No, kenny, you were. Wasn't this bill named for Mr. Byrd as you so eloquently pointed out when you opened this thread. He was murdered in case you hadn't known.
What everyone is missing is that this bill does make it illegal to call someone names. Only certain names of course, I doubt any homosexuals would be sent to jail for calling me a womanizer or something else dealing with my sexual preferences, but don't let me retort with a "shut up, you f*ggot!" I'll certainly be carted off to join the other 2 million Americans already incarcerated. Where is the equal protection under the law? Wait to see how many stupid kids get sent to jail, or get a record for saying the wrong word the wrong way near the wrong person. I thought nearly 2 million was bad, it's sure to triple now. If it had been legal, as some people for some reason seem to think, to rob, assault or kill the local gay Sri-lankan, then I would be on the front lines of this battle. Or perhaps borillar can show us the evidence of a government plot that he uncovered to kill the gays. If so, count me in on the revolution. Until then, logic prevails.
posted on May 17, 2001 10:48:01 AM"Have you uncovered some secret plot to mass murder all the gays by the government? I must have missed that. What are you referring to?"
Have you never read history? Are you not aware of how it comes about that governments can legalize targeted murdering as being perfectly legitimate? I never said that our government had some plot to kill all of the gays, but certainly, there is a prevailing attitude against homosexuals in the Republican dominated Congress and White House. They could not have this attitude prevail without a similar attitude on the part of the people who elect them into office. And once you start the ball rolling, it is awfully hard to stop. You need only to read about this century alone to fully understand just how dangerous it is for everyone to have a government that has this attitude.
"These hate crime laws don't make these thing s illegal, they are already illegal."
Yah -- but like I said: too many law enforcement officials just won't do a damned thing about it. Seems that too many of them feel that it is perfectly justified to kill someone if they make a pass at you and you disagree with it. How will you get justice going in an environment like that? You do it the same way that murderers and other Hate criminals were brought to justice with the Civil Right Act when no court of law would even entertain the notion of a trial for the perpetrators. If you can't see the problem here, jlpiece, you'll just have to add it onto the long string of mysteries that fill your life.
posted on May 17, 2001 11:05:31 AM"Have you never read history? Are you not aware of how it comes about that governments can legalize targeted murdering as being perfectly legitimate"-borillar
I hate to break the news to you borillar, but the hate crimes legislation deals with the here and now. Everyone is well aware of the many tragedies that have plagued mankind over the years, but this law has nothing at all to do with this. As I said before, these laws already exist for the act alone irregardless of the motive behind the crime.
"certainly, there is a prevailing attitude against homosexuals in the Republican dominated Congress and White House"-borillar
There is? Could you please back that up with some facts, or at least some half-truths. Maybe even a link or two.
Your opinions, as much as you would like to believe otherwise, do not make these things true.
""These hate crime laws don't make these thing s illegal, they are already illegal."
Yah -- but like I said: too many law enforcement officials just won't do a damned thing about itborillar
If these officials do not heed these laws now, why would they heed them now under the guise of hate crimes? I would also like to know where you get the idea that these small town sheriffs are looking the other way every time a homosexual, or a Kazakhstani immigrant is beaten or killed.
More opinions of yours, or is this documented?
"jlpiece, you'll just have to add it onto the long string of mysteries that fill your life."-borillar
The only mystery is why so few people are able to look at everything objectively and logically, without letting senseless party affiliations, or fraternal beliefs, or fears of being branded a ...(fill in the blank - racist, sexist, homophobe, xenophobe etc.) Things are so much clearer when you are able to view things with common sense.
posted on May 17, 2001 12:17:02 PM"No, kenny, you were. Wasn't this bill named for Mr. Byrd as you so eloquently pointed out when you opened this thread. He was murdered in case you hadn't known.
Where have I been addressed like that before?
No, I was talking about hate crime legislation, not hate murder specifically. The naming of the bill is not the issue here, nor does the name, or the fate of the person named define the breadth of the type of crime.
Do you have a reason for this apparent shying away from the homophobic aspects of the report above as they serve to further define the type of crimes addressed? Perhaps that reason could be the subject of another thread.
posted on May 17, 2001 12:35:06 PM
Hate crimes. What a redundancy. If it's a crime, the reason for committing it is irrelevant, unless it's an accident.
If I'm punched in the nose because I'm white...or because I'm black...or because I'm gay...or because I resemble the puncher's MIL...my nose bleeds in the same measure.
This is just political correctness run even more amuck.
