krs
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posted on June 26, 2001 05:31:36 AM
Striking an assertive tone for the Bush
administration on AIDS policy, Secretary of
State Colin L. Powell told the General
Assembly today that "from this moment on,"
the world's response to the disease "must
be no less comprehensive, no less relentless
and no less swift than the pandemic itself."
Secretary Powell told the delegates: "No war
on the face of the world is more destructive than
the AIDS pandemic. I was a soldier, but I know of
no enemy in war more insidious or
vicious than AIDS, an enemy that poses a
clear and present danger to the world."
UN secretary general Annan opened the conference today with a plea for more compassion for people with AIDS. "When we urge others to change their behavior, so as to protect themselves against infection, we must be able to change our behavior in the public arena," Mr. Annan said.
Annan said that [b]"We cannot deal with AIDS by making moral judgments or refusing to face
unpleasant facts — and still less by stigmatizing those who are infected, and making out that it is all their fault," he continued. "We can only do it by speaking clearly and openly, both about the ways that people become infected, and about what they can do to avoid infection."[/b]
The secretary general's appeal for tolerance was the latest in his continuing effort
during the last year to curb divisions and antagonisms — prejudice against AIDS patients, poor countries' resentment of richer ones and suspicion of big business,
especially pharmaceutical companies — that have frustrated the formation of an effective united front against the epidemic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/26/world/26AIDS.html?todaysheadlines
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gravid
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posted on June 26, 2001 11:53:55 AM
Huh? Is Powell Surgeon General now or is he going to attack aids with the armed forces?
Is he going to change the life style of a whole continent of diverse cultures so their "behavior" changes? Get real. The epedemic will stop when the population crashes. There is already too great a mass of infected people to avoid that happening. It is a done deal.
People know how to avoid infection but are not willing to live like that. So they will die. No moral judgement just physical fact. The virus makes no judgement in order to infect. Our moral judgement after the fact will not change survival. Nobody is withholding treatment because they don't approve of the infected peoples morals. They can't pay for it.
If they could pay for it there would still be no lasting benefit. They still die - it just takes longer and in the mean time they have opportunity to infect more people - so the net effect is to delay but make things worse.
[ edited by gravid on Jun 26, 2001 11:56 AM ]
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Hjw
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posted on June 26, 2001 12:26:36 PM
"Secretary Powell stopped short of saying how much more money the administration would contribute to the global fund"
It's just like the education program, all talk and no funding.
Helen
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toke
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posted on June 26, 2001 12:55:07 PM
Gravid...
You join Hepburn on my Posters with Courage list. Somehow I think you're somewhat less vulnerable to attack, though...
The only place I really disagree with you is that "People know how to avoid infection but are not willing to live like that." I truly think, if they cannot read, and are dependent on their government for info...many people have no clue what's killing them. And they don't have a government that gives a damn about them...just what the officials can make off the aid that comes into their country. They have first dibs, after all.
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Hjw
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posted on June 26, 2001 01:26:54 PM
Gravid
This is a global problem. Their problem will be right here eventually. From a humanitarian viewpoint alone, we should offer as much assistance as possible and 200
million is a drop in the bucket.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200105110104.html
According to Harvard economist Jeffrey Sachs and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, 7 to 10 BILLION dollars are needed to confront the escalating global AIDS crisis. International relief organizations had called on the US to contribute about $2 billion to the fund.
Helen
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bobbi355
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:04:57 PM
I believe that it's already out of control here. AIDS does not discriminate. It's no longer just a "gay" or "IV drug user" disease. All it takes is one time with the wrong person.
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hepburn
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:10:09 PM
Toke said You join Hepburn on my Posters with Courage list. Somehow I think you're somewhat less vulnerable to attack, though...
Funny, thats what I was thinking too (thanks Toke). But, since I am already considered the ogre by some, I may as well say again "legs closed, pants up". 'Course, this is different, isn't it? Not.
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gravid
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:10:40 PM
toke and Hjw - I would like to see them really do something effective but what?
I don't understand what they could spend that much money on that would really help.
From what I have read the educated people in the governments and military and the people such as lawyers and doctors have just as high a rate of infection as the general population out in the bush that are illiterate.
I was reading about one doctor went over there to one of the African countries that had a horrible infection rate and he was meet at the airport by the officials from the government health services and when they took him to his hotel the fellow said "You want me to tell the hotel to send you up some women tonight?"
He knew right then his whole trip was a waste if that was how casual the health ministry people acted about very dangerous sex.
If they had a really good program for 8 to 10 year old kids before they are sexually active to convince them they are going to die if they are casual about sex - now that would be worth spending some money on. Maybe the program coupled with what the kids see happening around them would work.
They are also going to have to do something to stablize these countries. When you lose 20 to 30% of your population in a decade which IS what is going to happen conditions are ripe for political unrest from inside and outside a country. Land does not stay empty and uncontested if it is abandoned.
Edited to add - Yeah I think it will get worse here also. That's why I have only had sex with two women, no men, and have never used needles or accepted a blood product at a hospital. You better believe I have quized my dentist even about his autoclaving practices. I have even refused to handle parts in a machine shop that had sharp edges
left on them and someone had bled on them.
Not only do I have zero risk factor for AIDS I have to worry a lot less about hepatitis and other stuff.
[ edited by gravid on Jun 26, 2001 02:18 PM ]
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hepburn
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:21:58 PM
Gravid, what if the two women you ever had sex with werent as careful with their previous partners? Im not saying this to be rude to them...just "what if?". Nowadays, nobody is safe anymore. Abstinence is the only guarantee.
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krs
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:29:04 PM
Only two women?
Anyway it's tax dollars better spent than on stupid anti missile programs that don't work and don't have any use if they did work.
Yay Bush!!
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gravid
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:33:22 PM
That is always a danger. I was married to both of them and there is always the possibility a partner will wander. At least I have a high level of confidence in my partner after 28 years together. Not like my slime ball brother in law that makes no apologies for doing whatever he pleases. I don't understand why a woman will keep a fellow like that.
Yeah I know krs - boring fellow right? That's why the first one divorced me. Old stick in the mud would not do drugs and party all night.
[ edited by gravid on Jun 26, 2001 02:35 PM ]
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toke
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:34:14 PM
Gravid...
Okay. I've resisted your various weirdnesses...nevertheless...
You are right.
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Hjw
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:42:59 PM
There seems to be conflicting opinions on just what should be funded first...either the prevention of new infections or the provision of medicines to poor countries. Most organizations want a substantial proportion of the global health fund spent on drugs.
Unbelievable as it may be, the use of condoms is an issue for Roman Catholic countries.
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gravid
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posted on June 26, 2001 02:47:07 PM
Thanks for the praise toke. Wish I was wrong but I see a very dark couple of decades for the dark continent, and a fair amount of trouble even where we have the money to delay the disease.
I think we are also going to see a real race in the next couple decades between the antibiotic resistant bacteria and new treatments to contain them. I have had three friends or relatives get super germ infections and one died and another came real close. My former father in law was in the hospital for unrelated problems and got a super bug pneumonia and died in 3 days. Just being in the hospital was the risk factor.
Another friend got a super bug infection in his elbow joint and nobody has any idea what caused it, or where he could have been exposed to it. He was ok when he went to bed and the next morning his elbow was bright red in a 4 inch circle and hot. The whole arm was swollen and the lymph nodes lumpy. Took 4 days of strong antibiotic in an IV before they started gaining any ground on it. They were not sure of saving him even if they amputated because it was all the way up into the arm pit.
Nasty stuff.
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gravid
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posted on June 26, 2001 04:56:24 PM
Just watched ABC news and they said there are 12 million ORPHANS in Africa from AIDS deaths and with the number infected right now and no increase they expect that to increase to 25 million in the next 10 years. That is so sad.
That will require some help right there.
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Hjw
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posted on June 26, 2001 05:07:40 PM
That sounds just overwhelming!
I know that this is a controversial topic, but it seems to me that assistance with family planning and abortion options should be available to those mothers with aids, not only because of the possibility that the children will be born with the disease but also because these children will eventually be without parents when they die of aids.
It seems to me that I remember reading that Bush withdrew this family counseling option in Africa.
Helen
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uaru
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posted on June 26, 2001 05:55:37 PM
I support family planning, I see the need. When I was working I specified that 100% of my United Way deductions from my paycheck was to go to Planned Parenthood (I felt it was one of the most important issues.)
The population growth is exactly opposite you'd think it should be. The rich have a lower population growth than the poor. In many 3rd world countries people depend on their children to support them when they are old, it is hard to change how a culture operates.
It is indeed sad to see what's happening in Africa but I don't see any hope on their horizon. My entire life I've see images and stories of Africa's poverty, wars, disease, famines, corrupt governments, and dictators. They need more than money, they need a miracle or messiah, and both are rare.
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Hjw
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posted on June 26, 2001 05:58:58 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/11/opinion/11HERB.html
This is a link to a very disturbing story about efforts just to get drugs to Africans.
to relieve suffering.
More than 25 million people there are infected with H.I.V and more than
17 million have already died. The rate of infection for all people 15 to 45 years old has nearly reached 20 percent!
"The United States, a rich and healthy nation, cannot close its eyes to suffering on such a colossal scale. There is medication available to ease the suffering and its cost is coming down. Now the steps must be taken to get the medicine to the people in need."
Helen
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bobbi355
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posted on June 26, 2001 06:05:46 PM
I agree. I mean, instead of spending billions of $$$ in space, we could at least send some meds over there at least to help alleviate the suffering.
This is sorta off topic, but not too long ago didn't they outlaw marijuana to be used for medicinal purposes? That's so sad because it helps a lot of people with cancer, aids, etc. For the life of me I can't see how a weed that grows in the ground, in nature, can be "illegal" but liquor, which has to be made in factories and distributed is perfectly legal. To tell sick people that they can't go out and pick a weed outa the ground because it makes them feel better just makes me irate.
And just like that article said - there are regimens now that aren't nearly as complicated as they once were. Many regimens are just two pills a day. Surely we could send someone over there and teach them how to take them.
[ edited by bobbi355 on Jun 26, 2001 06:15 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on June 26, 2001 06:13:59 PM
I know one thing - I have sold things on eBay to Europe, Asia, Islands of the Pacific and the Carribean, but I have never sold anything to South America or Africa. They may as well be on another planet.
Think of what it would mean to someone in a remote African village to be able to sell say a very ornate carved walking cane or a small wooden box to me for $15 or $20 when that may be what someone makes in a month there. Even in Europe in Albania people work sometimes for $50 to $75 dollars a month. I have seen very well done folk art canes go for $200 on eBay. But the infrastructure will never be built because it is a chicken or egg sort of problem compounded by corrupt govenments. How would they ever afford even an old PC for a village?
An economic revolution of that sort would lead to cultural changes however I am sure.
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Hjw
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posted on June 26, 2001 06:17:26 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35960-2001Jun22.html
Excerpt from story by President Bill Clinton
With adequate funding and strong leadership, we can attack this disease comprehensively: by supporting prevention programs that drive down infection rates; by making pharmaceuticals, including medicines that block the transmission of HIV from mother to child, available at reduced costs; by developing a system to teach people how to administer these drugs and monitoring their efforts; and finally, by sustaining the scientific quest for a vaccine and a cure.
The question is no longer whether we can or can't win the war on AIDS. Of course we can. The question is: will we, or won't we? Besieged by a common enemy, we must join together in common cause -- in memory of 22 million human souls, and for the future of many millions more. Our humanity requires it. In the profound words of Nkosi Johnson, "We are all human beings. We are the same."
The writer was 42nd president of the United States.
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gravid
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posted on June 26, 2001 06:50:49 PM
The search for a cure sounds best of all before this cute little mutating skilled virii comes up with a variation that is air transmitting.
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roofguy
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posted on June 26, 2001 07:19:23 PM
The AIDS war won't be won until stopping new infections is seen as the primary goal.
That time will come.
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gravid
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posted on June 27, 2001 02:21:21 AM
I would like to believe that - but how bad will it have to be to force that? Really take a stab at guessing because I can;t get a grip on it myself. As bad as it is now in Africa they stil have not budged from their official
attitudes and privite habits.
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roofguy
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posted on June 27, 2001 11:04:46 AM
- but how bad will it have to be to force that?
When the typical American feels threatened by AIDS (which will be about the same time the typical European or Japanese starts to feel threatened).
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donny
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posted on June 27, 2001 01:04:33 PM
Legs closed, pants up! Abstinence, that's the ticket! Guaranteed to end the spread of Aids! And also guaranteed, if practiced faithfully, to bring about the complete and total end of the human race, in... well, let's give today's newborn a long and happy life, say... in 105 years tops.
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krs
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posted on June 27, 2001 01:12:11 PM
Won't work. There's workarounds. On an all night bus from Seattle to San Francisco in 1970......
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hepburn
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posted on June 27, 2001 01:54:22 PM
Since you seem to be the expert, Donny, what do YOU suggest? Eh? I cant hear you. Speak up. How does one stop aids?
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donny
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posted on June 27, 2001 02:30:45 PM
Well, I think (hope) that the ultimate answer will be prevention through innoculation, as was the case with smallpox. It is possible, and most of us have seen this happen in our own lifetimes with smallpox, to completely eradicate a disease, worldwide.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on June 27, 2001 02:52:19 PM
The nature of smallpox is very different than AIDS. AIDS is one hardcore disease because it destroys the immune system. How does one innoculate with AIDS? I'm sure it's been thought of.
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