posted on November 16, 2001 09:49:28 AM new
I have been lurking both here and at Bidville for some quite time now and decided to give AW my CC # to post these observations.
I have seen on Bidville message center in the BidVille Auctions section two interesting threads concerning modifications or improvements to Bidville that are not posted to the Offical Announcements Board. The first deals with the modification to the bidding that can be done by non-verified users and the lowering of the minimum feedback rating number to bid on more than five items. This was posted on 11/14 by a user that started the ^^5-bid max rule -modification rule^^
Here's is part of that post ...
Hi XXXXX
Actually, the 5 bid maximum rule was modified a
day or two ago. We have not
posted this information, but we will shortly.
The minimum feedback was changed to +1 instead of
+2 for many different
reasons. The bidder ******* has +1 and can
bid on more than 5 items.
****** has a zero rating.
We`ll post this as soon as we can.
BidVille Customer Service
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
The other interesting post was about new improvements in the seller's arena for modifying or ending an auction early under the thread titled ^^something new for bidville!^^.
My curiosity is, why doesn't the Bidville management post these important changes & modifications to the Official Announcement Board or even email them to the Bidville members? Very odd, very odd indeed. Any thoughts?
posted on November 16, 2001 10:22:00 AM new
Hi robertsmithson ... Welcome to AW
The easy answer to your question is simply this - nothing that He does at Bidville makes any sense. This is typical for many "almost a doctor"s who can't handle the medical field and decide to try something that requires a sense of business and/or customer service.
As to the Bidville Policies, there is really no point in changing them. He would have to hire one of those grunts who change the gas price signs 3 or 4 times a day to change His policies everytime the sketer/CuFF group tell Him to.
It's too bad as I am finding out that there are a lot of great items and sellers on Bidville. I hope these folks eventually work their way over to Carnaby where the atmosphere is happier and more upbeat, and the professionalism shown by the venue owners is much more visible.
You may want to read some of the older threads here to get a more detailed answer to your thoughts.
posted on November 16, 2001 11:26:03 AM new
I've read many of the older threads and posts and I find that a seller named WhosNext to be the most vocal in advocating changes to the Bidville structure. When I check the items and feedback of these sellers that are so incredibly vocal and demanding in their pursuit of a better Bidville, I see very few sales considering their long tenures at Bidville. This would seem to indicate to me that this is merely a hobby that has become an obession with them with very little profit being actually made by these sellers. All of this does make the management at Bidville to appear to be directed by the suggestions of these few sellers and a small handfull of backers that applaud their every move on the message boards.
I have visited the auction site you have mentioned, this Carnaby. I find it the complete opposite of Bidville in the message center area. The posting users at Carnaby are very informative and intelligent and there seems to be few if any nonsensical posting that is so common to Bidville. The actual auction layout is far superior to Bidville's build-as-you-go layout. It is a mystery to me why the poorly designed Bidville has the one million plus listings and the excellently designed Carnaby auction has so few listings. It appears to me that the million plus listing should be on Carnaby and the few thousand listings number of the current Carnaby would be at the Bidville site.
posted on November 16, 2001 12:13:43 PM newIt is a mystery to me why the poorly designed Bidville has the one million plus listings and the excellently designed Carnaby auction has so few listings
Bidville simply lucked out when Yahoo made their fees blunder. The "nickle/dime" sellers moved their stuff en masse over to Bidville, which was really the only "free" site available. When you're trying to peddle stuff for 10 cents, you can't support a listing and selling fee.
Bidville started out on the right track but then it was invaded by the foul-mouthed, uneducated idiots who seem to run the place now. The venue owner only showed up every now and then, didn't answer the hard questions, and refused to accept any critical advice on how to make it better.
What's interesting to me is that, in addition to the dozen or so inmates who run the place, there is still a large number of quality sellers hanging on. For what reason, I cannot answer.
Carnaby, OTOH, is building their venue from a solid base.
Remember who won the race between the tortoise and and hare ...
posted on November 16, 2001 12:35:32 PM new
Hi Robertsmithson. Maybe I can help to clear up a couple of your questions because I've sold on BidVille in the past (probably will list there again) but also sell on Carnaby (and yes I said sell there, even though sales are few and far between).
BidVille just happened to come on the scene at just the right time, about the same time Yahoo! implemented their listing fees last winter. Many, many sellers simply up and moved their auctions to BidVille and many to ePier.
I started selling at BidVille last spring, I think in April or May. At that time it was a free site except for the enhancements for which you could sign up as a Premier member for a few dollars a month and get tons of listing credit. (It's still a good deal and a good way for BV sellers to go.)
At that time BV also had a couple of other message boards. One was a place to discuss other auction sites. That board was there and users fairly well discussed what they liked and disliked about other auction sites and nothing was ever said. Then just about the time Carnaby came on the scene a person from another auction site (not Carnaby) came and made a promotional post about their auction site. A bunch of us had been having a great discussion about Carnaby but when this fellow from the other site (not the Carnaby site) made a promotional post BV decided to pull that message area.
I think part of the reason why many sellers continue to keep their auctions at BV is the fact that Carnaby openly announces that at some point in time there will be fees. They aren't keeping their plans secret. The thoughts of actually having to pay to use a service scares some people half to death. I'm not sure why there are so many who expect a free ride but there sure seems to be a bunch of them.
The main reason I will continue to list on BidVille is the simple fact that I've received more bids there on my auctions than any of the other small sites. I haven't had auctions running there for a while but will have again shortly. However, if the bids aren't there as they were during the summer I probably won't continue there.
I know BidVille has many more listings at this time than Carnaby but it does help to keep in mind that at any given time at least half of those listings are for nickel and dime priced sport cards. No seller can afford to pay a listing fee for that kind of sale so I don't blame them for continuing to use BidVille--especially if they make the sales.
I'm sure my brain could keep rambling on here for a while but I think I'll shut up for now.
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posted on November 16, 2001 01:35:43 PM new
Great thread so far!!!
RB - I do thank you for the recognition that there are some good, professional sellers on Bidville. Much appreciated.
I believe I can also shed some light on the discussion on Bidville and Carnaby and the number of listings, etc. I have been a seller on Bidville since January and do have a small number of listings on Carnaby. However I consider Yahoo my primary site. I agree with RB and Wallypog that the large number of listings on Bidville is due to the fact that it launched at approximately the same time as Yahoo implemented its listing fees. Since Bidville was totally free similar to Yahoo prior to the fees, it was attractive to a lot of Yahoo sellers who just moved to Bidville. Also Bidville provided a lot of help to large listers in moving their listings. It has remained attractive to a lot of sellers for many reasons. Some of them are:
1. no listing or FVF fees - since a significant % of the listings are sport card commons (not all sports cards sold there are this type) and what I call low value "flea market" items, this provides a listing number base that is not likely to move from Bidville unless the fee structure is changed.
2. Bidville has made a number of changes to improve the site - some may be debated as being beneficial - but there has been a great deal of improvement in the functionality of the site since the launch. While I do think Carnaby has overall a much better layout, the functionality of Bidville for listing and bidding is good.
3. No other third tier site without listing fees has developed a signficant sell-through rate. Bidville's sell-through rate is low, but no other third tier site has a signficantly higher sell-through rate to entice many sellers to move. Many people become comfortable with a site, and it does take some significant advantage to get them to move.
I do agree that Carnaby is a very professional site and appears to be well run. In my opinion, they have made several mistakes which has limited the number of listings.
1. Possible listing fees. While I applaud the honesty in stating that listing fees are possible, I believe the uncertainty over fees keeps many large listing sellers from moving to Carnaby.
2. Postponement of advertising. When Carnaby postponed their planned advertising campaign, this created some doubt in many sellers who have tired of empty promises from new auction sites.
3. Time-consuming listing. While the max loader is an excellent tool, it is just too time consuming for sellers with hundreds of simple listings, such as sports cards, books, or DVD's. Having a simple bulk listing tool would be beneficial for sellers of these items. Also Carnaby did not provide a mechanism for moving your listings from another site until the last month or so.
With all of that said, I am not sure that Carnaby would want a million listings at the moment. The site appears to be targeted toward the seller with higher quality items than the majority of items on Bidville. This may be the proper approach eventually, but the lack of listings is also keeping many sellers from increasing their listings at Carnaby. I know I would list more sports cards at Carnaby, but until the last couple of weeks the total number of sport card listings was less than 100. This low number of listings does not make the site attractive to the buyer which reduces the page views and keeps sellers from listing more.
posted on November 16, 2001 02:00:37 PM new
Hi Steve ...
I do thank you for the recognition that there are some good, professional sellers on Bidville. Much appreciated
You are one of them Steve, and you have earned my respect even though I haven't had the opportunity (yet) to deal with you
wrt Carnaby and your points:
Possible listing fees. While this could drive away potential listers, I think most of us realize that eventually, all auction venues are going to have to charge something. If it's going to happen anyway, I'd prefer the upfront approach instead of the nonsense that Bidville is doing. Personally, I'm holding off listing at Carnaby not because of upcoming fees, but because I want to know what those fees are going to be!
Postponement of advertising. Excellent point, and probably the single biggest problem with Carnaby. I believe many of their Charter members (myself included) were hoping that they would keep this promise, but instead, they have put themselves into a Catch-22 situation. "We'll pay for advertising when the number of listings warrant it". But, how do they expect the number of listings to increase if no one knows about the site. The Gold's situation last year proves that word-of-mouth advertising isn't worth the paper it's printed on. I don't think "pop-ups" are cutting it anymore either. Most people I talk to, again me included, hate these revenue generators and will go out of their way to avoid sites that use them.
Time-consuming listing. I don't know about listing, but I know that everytime I want to place a bid, I have to enter my ID and my password ... even in multiple-bidding-at-the-same-time sessions.
Thanks for the compliment. I also respect your opinions. Even though we have disagreed many times, these are just differences of opinions. However I know we both appreciate professionalism in the auction business.
I have found Carnaby to be a frustrating site. The site has excellent organization, appearance of good management, and appearance of a good business plan. However they keep doing some things which i believe have retarded the growth of the site. I agree that the biggest factor has been the postponement of the advertising. I believe many good sellers on 3rd tier sites and even Yahoo were poised to move a signficant number of listing to Carnaby, but now are sitting on the sidelines until that advertising occurs. Now that opportunity may well have passed for the immediate future. I also think that the site did not do enough in the beginning to attract sellers. Some of the current initiatives, such as charter membership, would have been more effective two to three months ago.
posted on November 16, 2001 04:20:54 PM new
can I jump into this mutual admiration society thread?
At one point, I thought just as you did Steve concerning offering initatives earlier, but after being involved with a lot of the site testing, I think it was probably smart to wait like they did. Take the fixed price stores. CS recruited 4 test teams consisting of 4-6 members. They expected the tests to take (from what I understand) a couple hours and it took over a week. We put them through hell looking for and finding problems offering solutions and suggestions from the viewpoint of both sellers and buyers. It took almost two weeks to get it right before launching. I shudder to think of the mess Carnaby would be if they just invited folks to join and nothing worked right.
I agree with my namesake that there are still problems such as having to log on for every bid placed, but that is something being worked on, I understand the universal log in will be released soon. I think one of the keys to their eventual success is the willingness to involve those who actually use the site instead of relying on a bunch of computer programmers who haven't a clue as to what the real world of auctions are really like.
posted on November 16, 2001 04:59:35 PM new
Hi Rob,
Your point is a good one. It is better to debug when you are small than have a lot of problems as you are building up significant number of members. My concern is that Carnaby may have missed a good opportunity window. You might say that its honeymoon period is over. That is what I call the time when sellers will go to a new site based strictly on the promises. In this case, the attractive promise was advertising. What worries me now is that a lot of sellers may not try the site until there is traffic resulting from the advertising. But will the buyers attracted by the advertising stay if there are few listings? As RB stated, Carnaby may have gotten itself into a Catch-22 situation.
In retrospect, Carnaby might have been better served to have recruited a small group of sellers and buyers to conduct a beta test without opening the site to the public. With the right incentives, I believe they could have recruited a solid core that would have been willing to do this.
posted on November 16, 2001 10:56:11 PM new
I can now see more clearly some of the obstacles that these third tier online auction sites face. A very large number of listings isn't always a good thing if almost half of those listings are low priced or very low priced items of a specialized nature such as the sports related items at Bidville. Even with the lofty listing numbers at Bidville there appears to be very little successful selling.
The other third tier online auction sites such as Carnaby may need a more robust number of listings to satisfy their investors and they are stuck spinning their wheels, so to speak.
All of these third tier online auction sites seem to face the same problems. No traffic possibly due to lack of exposure from advertizing and a not-too-rosy future. One has to wonder why they continue to operate with such daunting obstacles in their collective paths. They must be a very optimistic group of entreprenuers, or a very foolish group of entreprenuers, I can not decide which.
posted on November 16, 2001 10:56:41 PM new
Stevecards, you may be right in your thinking Carnaby should've recruited a test team before they opened for the public.
Basically the last several months I've been registered there (since July) has been a series of tests. The members who signed on as charter members agreed to run a certain amount of listings and give as much feedback as possible on the site, the Max Loader and whatever else happened along.
So basically you could say Carnaby is in the testing phase but it's a live testing where we follow through with transactions instead of just running dummy auctions.
I truly hope that the tables do turn for Carnaby because I feel they have much to offer the industry.
I also hope that sellers will be willing to help the site grow by placing some listings there even if they don't sell right away. I know how frustrating that is--after all we're doing this to make money. But at the same time if we want something better we're going to have to help create it.
-----------------------------------
posted on November 17, 2001 08:01:09 PM new
I wonder why there are no bids there. Pumpkinhead proudly announced 2000 listings. Thats right among them is a 5 cent John Kruk card with the starting bid of 50 cents. The rest of the items are starting at full book or above. I am so ready to bid 10 times book on a 1993 Derrick Coleman card!
posted on November 18, 2001 01:17:21 PM new
Pumpkinhead is a typical BV seller. Overpriced common sportscards from a seller that is happy as a clam to sell a few items a month. { 113 positive feedbacks / 11 months = 10+ sold items/month }. Can Mr. Ed ever hope to make a dollar off of a seller base made up of pumpkinhead-like sellers? I suppose he is by getting them to pay $5/month for 50 cent per item feature credits. Bidville, home of the meek sellers.
posted on November 18, 2001 02:42:14 PM new
Well, if Pumpkinhead is a typical BV seller, and if s/he's happy with the results, I guess we can't complain, right?
I really don't think any of these so-called third tier sites are going to make any money ... at least not enough to be able to spend and compete with the big guys.
OTOH, I also don't believe that gives an owner like the "almost a doc" to act like an idiot and make all kinds of promises to his members that He cannot keep. It's beginning to look like Carnaby has made a few too ... we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
In the meantime, if you find a venue you like and if it suits your needs, then go for it.
posted on November 18, 2001 03:37:02 PM new
Holysmokes,
I find it in poor taste to discuss another person's auction listings on these boards. I don't believe that you would like someone to discuss your personal business dealings and the way you sell on these boards. I have no problem with you posting about listings that you don't like, but to identify the seller crosses the line.
posted on November 18, 2001 03:58:32 PM new
Stavcards you are entitled to your opinion. However your opinion neither changes nor contributes to the facts.
posted on November 18, 2001 08:31:05 PM new
It's just not Puddinhead that is boasting of great sales figures when the true results are quite dismal. Most of the other cheerleader types are in the same boat, including the Queen of Paranoia, Cuff. They never cheerlead about the social aspects of Bidville, which is the glue that keeps them all together, but of the financial bonazas they are reaping on the site. If a few dollars a month is a financial bonaza then heaven help them. Next time you see a cheerleader boasting of great success, click on their name and see what that great success actually works out to be.
They are almost like a religious sect living in a mountain community somewhere totally deluded by reality.
posted on November 19, 2001 03:06:42 AM new
Ok smarties. Lets see your sales stats. Not your preferred auction sites' stats. Yours. With your crabby attitudes and perpetual griping they should be downright gruesome. I am beginning to doubt any of you even sell on auctions. If you do you must be doing poorly or you wouldn't spend so much time in here prattling on like a bridge party full of cranky grandmothers.I am quite sure that you won't give us any user names. You would be paranoid that some of your fellow goofballs would come along and bid on your drop shipped cloned crap and not pay. Put up or shut up, whiners.
posted on November 19, 2001 05:03:42 AM new
LOL Looks like Kodi is still in a bad mood after that argument with another BV cheerleader and ended up having to give an inch.
One thing I can say for Bidville, the cheerleaders are very entertaining. What a crew. ROFLMAO
[ edited by reality1 on Nov 19, 2001 05:10 AM ]
posted on November 19, 2001 07:17:31 AM new
Yes Kodi, are you done pouting like a three year old child? HB had posted a while back that Kodi had removed her artwork banners for the sale and disappeared. That was real mature Kodi. Those artwork banners could be made by a seventh grader in Special Ed but you're adored by many at Bidville because their computer skills consist of using the Enter key on a their computer.
You're the only beligerent Bidville Cheerleader to come out and play, other than Cuff's attack on Dim at Mootropolis a few days ago.
Now run along home to Bidville and see who you can badger or gather praise from. I'm sure you'll boast of your exploits over at dying AW.
Please, any lurkers out there are considering Bidville as a possible site to use, check out the message boards and all of its content before either placing a bid or listing an item for sale.
Boss Bryan, you're welcome for all the AW suggestions that you add an informative FAQ so newbies are not totally lost at your confusing site. You'll do good if you watch for future suggestions on repairing that leaking vessel know as BlundersVille.
[ edited by tooltimes on Nov 19, 2001 08:41 AM ]
posted on November 19, 2001 07:44:03 AM newPlease, any lurkers out there are considering Bidville as a possible site to use, check out the message boards and all of its content before either placing a bid or listing an item for sale.
Firstly, many potential members cannot access the message forums until they reqister (requires a password to enter the "community", at least from my PC).
Secondly, there are a lot of good sellers and good items available on Bidville --- I suggest any lurkers may want to do just the opposite and avoid the forums completely. Otherwise they may become corrupted by the "cheerleaders" who are actually causing more harm than good to Bidville with their childish nonsense.
posted on November 19, 2001 08:44:26 AM new
RB I have to agree with you on that count. I've sold to and bought from several on BidVille and for the most part (the one that wasn't great wasn't a board regular) everything has been superb! There are many good sellers on BidVille and many good buyers as well.
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posted on November 19, 2001 09:27:25 AM new
Buzz, I believe BidlessVille has remedied the bad situation of not letting unverified members view the message boards. Of course, this was a totally unannounced change at Bidville, even though it was a positive move.
Here are some fine points from the new FAQ that should make any new users feel very comfortable bidding or selling on Bidville:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And, it prevents members from using multiple accounts to engage in fraudulent activity.
This limit was put into effect to protect our sellers from malicious "deadbeat" bidders.
Also, please remember that the "too good to be true" items usually are exactly that.
It will also help clean our site of stagnant auctions from inactive sellers.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those stagnant sellers can select relist 20 times for 30 days each relist so the can ignore their auctions for 20 months.
There are many excellent sellers and buyers on Bidville. There are also many scams and bad sellers.
posted on November 19, 2001 09:35:28 AM newBuzz, I believe BidlessVille has remedied the bad situation of not letting unverified members view the message boards. Of course, this was a totally unannounced
This must have been a selective policy change as I am still greeted with this:
To enter the Community section of Bidville, please log in below.
Before proceeding, you must log in. Forgot your nickname or password? Click Here.
posted on November 19, 2001 09:39:44 AM newAlso, please remember that the "too good to be true" items usually are exactly that
Does that include those Simpsons VCDs that have been listed for millions of dollars since Day 1, and the 100's of other bootleg junk listings on Bidville? IOW, has He done anything about any "real" issues yet instead of simply paying lip service to the problems that all auction venues have to deal with (the deadbeats etc.)
posted on November 19, 2001 09:46:54 AM new
Holysmokes,
I don’t want to start a personal battle – I just do not think it adds anything to the discussion to single out a particular seller on this message board. I believe you could have made your point without mentioning the name of the seller.
I do have some opinions about the subject matter of your post. First, I agree that selling a card significantly above book is not helpful to the site. Sometimes people will form opinions about the site from a handful of listings. However on common cards, I don’t have a problem with sellers listing them at book value. Discounting a 5 or 10 cent card isn’t going to attract any additional business and I believe a buyer looking for a couple of commons to complete a set does not mind paying “book”.
However, I do think the significant number of common card listings is detrimental. I can imagine many buyers have become frustrated sorting through a lot of commons when they are searching for their wants. The sellers of commons do provide a needed service since it is difficult to find anyone selling commons to complete sets. However, I wish there was an alternative to auctions for these sellers. In my mind, a good classified area or inexpensive storefront on an auction site would be better for the selling of commons.
posted on November 19, 2001 09:53:07 AM new
Buzz
Just register using a new email address and log in. Them you can at least read the boards.
But you can't post until you give them a CC or get a +1 rating.
Heck open an account under your cats name. LOL
You have to register at Bidville to view the message boards but not be verified. I suppose the thinking there is that if they do not want to spend a few minutes registering at the site then maybe they are not welcome? BTW, that then the are not welcome at Bidville remark has been removed from the verification FAQ.
Why would Bidville require the registration to merely view a message center when no other sites requires this action?
Perhaps his stated goal of one million registered users found on this url is part of the reason:
http://www.auctionwatch.com/awdaily/features/secondwave/3.html
However, unlike ePier and 321Gone.com, Orlando says that he would like to take Bidville public, ideally, in the next two years. In the meantime, Bidville's goal is breaking the 1 million-registered user mark.
