posted on February 21, 2001 04:18:48 PM new
In Bidbay's User Agreement, the agreement says that both Bidbay.com and the user (doesn't specify buyer or seller) agree that they are each independent contractors.
Having seen a thread about some Bidbay users winning a nice camera and some money prizes, I was interested so I went to their Contest Boards.
I don't know if these rules are new or not, but, in red letters, there is a statement that says employees, (to be expected), "independent contractors" (I added quotes) and members of their households are exempt from any and all contests. This isn't verbatim, I didn't want to violate AW guidelines.
Now, I'm slow so bear with me.
If all Bidbay users are independent contractors, per the User Agreement (which I assume is binding on them if they use the site) doesn't this mean they are "exempt from any and all contests", according to Bidbay's own rules?
Also, what does "exempt from any and all contests" mean? I thought it meant that the users, as independent contractors, couldn't enter the contests, but I really have no idea.
posted on February 21, 2001 04:50:42 PM new
What it is is BidBay is attempting to get their contests in line legally.
Something I have been after the CEO to do all along.
I've got proof that employees/agents have participated in and won contests.
What they are referring to in regards to the independent contractors is their board moderators.
One in particular who won a color printer in their contest.
I'm sure this has happened more than once like in the daily contest prizes but at the time these were going on I was unaware who a couple of their moderators were.
I have written their contest judge for a list of past winners for all of their contests and she emailed me back saying she passed it on to the PTB's
I doubt I will get anything back from them...even though they are required by law to release it to me.
posted on February 21, 2001 10:57:40 PM new
Hi AG2 - Thanks for the explanation. However, I'm still wondering (since the site offers no explanation of independent contractors in their contest rules) if buyers and sellers, as independent contractors, are allowed to win these contests based on the User Agreement set forth by Bidbay.
I didn't know that Bidbay was referring specifically to moderators or anyone else, but if so, shouldn't that be spelled out more clearly in the contest rules?
I appreciate your answering my questions and talking to me, but I think I'm going to just retire from AW for awhile. I know I get on peoples' nerves, and don't know when to keep my big mouth shut so I rarely get more than one or two posts to any thread or comment I make.
Thanks for the friendship offered by you and others, I am most appreciative.
posted on February 21, 2001 11:58:03 PM new
Heya Jada,
been fun chattin' with ya'.
I do agree their "eligibility requirements" are something that need real work and clarification.
You bring up good a good point regarding the independent contractor something I didn't even pay attention to in the User Agreement since it's been so long since I joined.
posted on February 22, 2001 10:46:38 AM new
Most contests run by any company are handled by an outside accounting or legal firm.
Arthur Andersen, Deloitte & Touche , Ernst & Young , PricewaterhouseCoopers are in the top ten. A company of this supposed size would be engaging one of these firms to handle the amount of daily traffic. This size firm would be set up to handle the daily, weekly etc. contests in a fair and legal manner.
Perhaps they will share this information with you, and then you or your counsel can contact, and review the above for the strict guidelines that must be adhered to in the 50 states this contest is being held. I am sure they will give you the rules also for any other country should you live out of the U.S. As an online contest it is available to the WWW (world wide web) in other words - The World!. State's will also have different rules (which will be available at the State Attorney General's office in each state), and they will have the legalities for each state. Some states do not allow participation, and some states require other items strictly adhered to from the contest holder.
If you are having trouble getting an answer just call the Attorney General's office in your state, and they will provide you a copy of the rules, as they must register in each state.
Good luck!
[ edited by dadnmom on Feb 22, 2001 10:48 AM ]
[ edited by dadnmom on Feb 22, 2001 10:50 AM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 02:14:50 AM new
After just now reading the directions on the contest boards...I found them very incomplete. You may have to indeed write the Secretary of (your) State to get a full contract of rules. Uually a rather long and boring, but legally necessary read, to participate.
posted on February 26, 2001 03:58:52 AM new
These are the rules for the dutch listings contest......pretty funny
The following are the rules:
1. List any item for at least three days and with a minimum of one auto re-list.
2. Earn five bidbaybucks for every item listed.
3. Dutch auctions must have a minimum of 100 items.
4. Duplicate listings will disqualify a user
now I guess this goes for the number if bids to be the winner???
So I can show up and list a 100 recipes at the mandatory 100 quantity dutch auction which will in turn boost the total count on the front page by 10,000
Then I can get a buddy of mine to bid on all of them.......each item will get me 5 bidbay bucks each so i'll be able to bid on $500 worth of other peoples recipes
Then when those auctions end my buddy can then leave feedback on each and every one of my recipes and my feedback will be pumped up to a whopping 100+
posted on March 1, 2001 06:53:46 PM new
One more statement to say I feel betrayed and used, and just plain idiotic!
I read Bidbay's chat board, saw some very friendly posts between Bidbay's most avid critic on this board and the CEO.
Not one word was said about all the problems except, "we're working on them". No criticism of any sort was offered by the critic, no questions were asked (as had been promised (at least nothing has been said in public and most likely that won't happen), just some vague references to "working hard behind the scenes". Yeah, right.
The stray sheep now appears to be back in the fold, so to speak. I am always needing money, but I don't think $5,000 would buy my respect where none existed in the first place.
At least some of the Bidbay faithful did have the credibility/backbone to let the CEO know they did not welcome the return of the person who complained about Bidbay on a daily basis. I may not agree on other issues with those particular Bidbay supporters, but I do admire them for their candor and remaining steadfast in their position in this matter.
Try not to feel used and betrayed. Consider the source, and just let it go. They certainly are not worth getting upset over. Once banded together a group of people that have a vested interest (by virtue of money, promises of money, promises period) are difficult to understand.....
The word diffi CULT comes from Latin...Different Cults.
There is a lot of that going on. Some folks complain here, and kiss up on their boards. It is part of online auction life (such as it is). If you want to call it a life. Hang in there!
posted on March 2, 2001 06:06:00 PM new
You can't fault the person for making the trip and being paid 5K to give his opinion. One should be more concerned that the CEO would make the offer don't you think?
Not allycatpft anywhere else!
posted on March 2, 2001 09:59:57 PM new
No...I can't let this go Jada.
You have impuned me and I will answer each and every accusation on this thread.
#1 One more statement to say I feel betrayed and used, and just plain idiotic!
Why do you feel betrayed and used. Have I made any specific promises or guarantees to you personally?
#2 I read Bidbay's chat board, saw some very friendly posts between Bidbay's most avid critic on this board and the CEO
As I stated on the other thread part of my agreement in going to BidBay was to have my chat board priviliges reinstated so I could discuss with the bidbay members some issues that they feel need to be addressed at BidBay. That was the only reason I asked to be reinstated. You should at least give me credit for respecting the boundaries they have established in their guidelines.
If you think I am afraid to post anything that would be deemed negative or controversial you are extremely mistaken. Why do you think I have had my posting priviliges suspended there in the first place.
If you only knew how many threads of mine have been deleted from that place because of my stance on certain issues it would surely make your head spin. I one member who asked repeatedly how I got away with so much when they got away with so little.
#3 at least nothing has been said in public and most likely that won't happen
Well you have another think coming.
#4 The stray sheep now appears to be back in the fold, so to speak
Nope. I made one post. Saw that it would be pointless for me to try to create some dialogue that could very well help the site progress. It was a waste of time. You will see only one more post from me there and that will be the one I make after returning from my trip.
#5 but I don't think $5,000 would buy my respect where none existed in the first place.
$5,000 is buying my time, my opinons, and actual facts...not my respect.
#6 I do admire them for their candor and remaining steadfast in their position in this matter.
Well I tell you what. You sure are predicting a whole heck of a lot. You know what? The trip hasn't happened yet. Let's just get beyond that and we'll see who remains steadfast in their position.
I will be unable to post here until Sunday March 11th after I leave this Sunday so don't assume my silence equals anything.
I would like to finish this up with...if you don't like my posts hit the ignore button. If you don't like my voice get your own. People need to learn to speak for themselves instead of expecting everyone else to do it for them and then feeling "betrayed" LOL when the voice is quiet for a few days.
I do have other things to do other then go on chat boards and fight your battles and earn your respect.
As I stated on the other post. Hundreds if not thousands come on these chat boards day in and day out complaining. Well I'm going to LA and I'm going to sit across the table from the very people I've been complaining about. I am going to look them in the eye and let them know what the online community thinks of them and ask them what they intend to do about it.
Not too many people here can say the same thing.
Instead of accusing me of being bought out...you should at least give me credit for allowing these people to face their accuser so to speak. You should give me credit for having the cajones to go face to face with the very same people who have threatened me with litigation.
You should also give me credit for being in this situation to begin with.
I'm in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.
If I do go people like you will accuse me of being bought out.
If I don't go others will accuse me of backing down from the gauntlet that has been thrown at my feet.
Well I've never been one to back down from a good fight. And I won't back down from the one with BidBay.
posted on March 3, 2001 08:46:13 AM new
Yes Jada the thread was authored by me and had more than one post by me.
And this is what I said.
Just dropping in saying hi.
Thank you GT, Capt.
I'm going to just go into lurker mode for awhile.
I just thought I'd say hi
That is all I said on that thread in 2 posts. Nothing more...nothing less. If you would like a link to that thread just email me at [email protected] I will be more than happy to supply it.
I have already given my reason for being allowed to post once again at BidBay and was just testing the waters and saw quickly the reaction I got and decided I would not post again.
I did however post a reply to a thread today that asked BidBayers if they wanted me there.
I will not post anymore other than my final post after the trip.
As far as me mispelling impuGned. I know how to spell the word you know there are things called typos.
I have found that when people can't address the issue or points effectively on chat boards they attack spelling, and punctuation.
I hope you get a chance to read this before you go
You will get a first hand chance to see if one of the most bizarre entities on the Internet is motivated by naievitee or simple fraud. I sincerely hope it is the former. That can at least be understood and forgiven.
But be cautious since in any event these people are desperate, and desperate people do desperate things. They have spent a fortune on a site that is not faring well at all, and you alone would be considered responsible for their IPO being considered the butt of jokes on a colossal scale.
It is without doublt this reason above all that they have tried to silence you.
They would simply not understand why you have been haranguing them: Ethics issues are simply beyond the comprehension of your typical dotcom executive, or most corporate executives for that matter. They might not understand the outrage that people might feel by being lured into the work involved with posting auctions on a site with the hope of building it up so that all could prosper - and seeing egregious mistakes being made and outright lies as well as abusive and repressive tactics to cover them up. In other words their attitude might be 'What we do is no skin off your teeth: LEAVE US ALONE!'.
Or they might even say:
"Listen, we know you are right in your criticism of the BBB's and the contests, but what are we gonna do? There are only a few hundred 'regular' users and if we get rid of what you suggest then the entire site is likely to sink into oblivion. "
But you need to explain that that is where they are headed without some radical changes. Even Georges 'vote' on the contests must have come as a rude awakening by the overwhelming negative consensus, even by those most involved with them.
But most of all is the question of why we even give a damn. Well, from my viewpoint, its actually a well set up site with alot of promise, though definitely needing technical improvements outside of new smiley faces.
As I said before you have all the material for a book that would put Heller's Catch-22 to shame. Take careful notes.
so I rarely get more than one or two posts to any thread or comment I make.