Click the Message Center tab and you're greeted with three top-page choices:
Amazon, eBay and Yahoo.
Click the Auction Manager tab, then Create Auction, and you'll be greeted with the selctions:
Amazon, eBay and Yahoo.
AuctionWatch is clearly devoted to these three auction sites and its really no surprise that the call for a top page forum for Bidville fell on deaf ears.
As Saturday Night Live's Churchlady used to say ...
posted on March 1, 2001 07:35:04 PM new
Actually you may well have discovered a "conspiracy" where none exists.
It may be that Amazon doesn't "deserve" (whatever that means) to be in the hallowed "top page", but that hardly means that bidville does. In fact, based on the latest posts, bidville is heading south after its "15 minutes of fame".
The most likely explanation is that AW took their best forecast of the "top 3" sites, and, besides the obvious #1, yahoo and amazon, with their traffic, backing, etc., were reasonable guesses to be "top tier" sites.
You can hardly expect (can you?) for AW to rush around and constantly move around the structure of their web pages to reflect the "real" #2 and #3 (even if we can decide on an unambiguous definition of how to rank auction sites).
No, the real answer, as discouraging as this is to your "discovery" of some sort of conspiracy, is that putting ebay, yahoo, and amazon on the top was a reasonable thing to do, and until some other auction site clearly establishes itself as a real, valid contender (and bidville has obviously NOT done this, by any reasonable measure) there is no reason to expect AW to rush out and redesign their web site.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there it is.
PS - I just noticed the other thread, bidbay now has a million items up for bid, DWARFING bidville's paltry 300K+. By your own criteria, bidbay, not bidville, should replace Amazon, so perhaps you need to stop contradicting yourself and start supporting Bidbay for "top page" status!
[ edited by captainkirk on Mar 1, 2001 07:38 PM ]
posted on March 1, 2001 08:20:13 PM new
now if I were an unreasonable person, I might think that post was something that BIDABY cooked up. but then again, they do have the recipes,. DON"T THEY!
posted on March 1, 2001 08:39:39 PM new
captainkirk,
Looks like the management of AuctionWatch doesn't see Bidville, or any other alternative auction site, as earning a top page forum; and it looks like the software writers of Auction Manager don't see Bidville, or any other alternative auction site, as places that sellers should be listing their items.
I remember seeing Bidville banner advertisements a few weeks ago here on AuctionWatch. But not anymore. Given the preference given to a select three auction sites, I'd stop advertising here too.
And now AuctionWatch implements listing and final value fees.
posted on March 1, 2001 09:42:13 PM new
There is only so much change that a place like AW can support. If they keep chasing after every "latest and greatest" auction, they'll drive themselves crazy and/or go broke.
If bidville establshes themselves as a legitimate challenger, i'm sure AW will take notice. But they aren't there yet.
Jim - are you refering to my post possibly being "something bidbay cooked up"? I can't imagine why you would, i'm certainly not a bidbay cheerleader or anything. Just using public knowledge to rebut someone else's position - after all, dim's theory is that "number of listings" is what qualifies you for "top page" status, so based on that, he should be advocating for bidbay, not bidville. Personally I don't think any of the new auctions has proven themselves worthy of "top page" status.
posted on March 1, 2001 11:11:59 PM new
I believe that it is way too premature to group bidville with the likes of Amazon, YAhoo and eBay. Those three sites are established on the NASDAQ and are trading very steadily. In other words, they are multi million dollar corporations, actually billion dollar corporations. They will be there tomorrow, no question about it.
Bidville on the other hand is not a billion dollar corporation, is not publicly traded, and we doin't know if they will be there tomorrow.
Sure, defend this all you want, but realize that just because bidville has a few more listings than Amazon or Yahoo certainly doesn't make them more credible.
posted on March 2, 2001 12:27:51 AM new
"In fact, based on the latest posts, bidville is heading south after its "15 minutes of fame"
In fact, there were so many Bidville threads the censors locked them up and said Bidville could only have 3 threads.
If you check on Yahoo Clubs where users are free to create clubs and post as many threads as they like, you will see that Bidville has an overwhelming lead over Amazon, Bidbay, and the other sites discussed in this section (Other Online Auctions).
Personaly I don't care if AW changes their name to Ebay Watch and locks all the Bidville threads because the vast majority of Bidville discussion is on Yahoo Clubs.
If anyone believes AW has more influence than Yahoo Clubs or is more relevant to online buyers and sellers go to another site and ask who has heard of Auction Watch and who has heard of Yahoo Clubs.
posted on March 2, 2001 01:58:35 AM new
On Yahoo Clubs where users are free to create clubs and post as many threads as they choose, you will find 1 Amazon club created in May 1999 with 11 members. You will find the most popular Bidville club created 2 weeks ago has 79 members. Along with a dozen or more smaller Bidville clubs.
why yes, i'm sure the bidville yahoo club is on everyone's lips! why, just this morning I overheard a group of people discussing the latest postings there! (snicker, snicker).
More people MAY have heard of Yahoo clubs OVERALL (although you certainly did not prove that), but comparing AW with a club with a whopping 79 "members" (most of whom probably have long since disappeared) just proves that these clubs, individually, amount to little more than a pimple on the face of the internet.
and my comment about bidville heading south was based on the MANY comments in those bidville threads stating that action had fallen off DRAMATICALLY there. "many" threads in AW does NOT mean that bidville is heading to success, of course. For example, when something goes out of business it tends to generate a LOT of threads discussing same. Accordingly to your "logic", that would mean an out-of-business auction was "hot"!
The fact that a group of people have started a number of yahoo clubs on bidville is meaningless. What is important is how many items have SOLD at bidville - that is the best measure of the impact of an online auction. An auction is important to a seller when he can actually SELL something there, and important to a buyer when he actually BUYS something there. When bidville's sales make them a top player, and they can sustain those sales after they impose fees, come back and chat.
In the meantime, start all the yahoo clubs you want. Its america, everyone is entitled to perform as many meaningless acts as they want!
posted on March 2, 2001 06:42:23 AM new
"The fact that a group of people have started a number of yahoo clubs on bidville is meaningless."
It might be meaningless to eBay promoters and AW suckups, but it means that there is more discussion concerning Bidville and alternatives to eBay when that discussion is not systematically suppressed as it is here on Auction Watch (Ebay Watch).
posted on March 2, 2001 07:38:24 AM new
Like I said, ebay, amazon, and yahoo are all money backed companies that will definetly be there tomorrow. What do you know about bidville? Will they be in business tomorrow? Ever seen a national ad on network TV for bidville?
The point is that the big three are publicly traded billion dollar companies, we don't know anything about bidville, so to compare bidville to yahoo or amazon or ebay is simply rediculous.
posted on March 2, 2001 08:04:11 AM new
"systematically suppressed" ...LOL.
Why yes, I see the angry mob outside, numbering in the millions, chanting "bidville..bidville..bidville", and AW management calling out the water cannons to disperse them.
I'm all for your right to form your own little club and sit around and congratulate each other for "right thinking". Go for it! Just don't expect any reasonably objective person to seriously think that these miniscule groups constitute some sort of high-impact think tank...
Dim: I wish you well in your travels! I hope you find the "nirvana of chat rooms" that you seem to find so desperately lacking here.
posted on March 2, 2001 08:11:48 AM new
auctiongaurd,
Ummmmm, are we talking about doing a complete evaluation via Dunn&Bradstreet or S&P Credit before AuctionWatch makes the couple of software changes needed to create a top-page forum for Bidville at the Message Center or a button to upload auctions to Bidville via Auction Manager?
Frankly, that's just plain silly. If AuctionWatch won't, other companies will. So its interesting that Bidville's homepage notes that AuctionTamer now supports Bidville.
edited for clarity.
[ edited by dimview on Mar 2, 2001 08:32 AM ]
You present some valid points for consideration. However,
>>>>"Like I said, ebay, amazon, and yahoo are all money backed companies that will definetly be there tomorrow. "<<<<<
I wouldn't make this statement too often unless you enjoy crow for dinner. History has shown many mony back corporations that have become non-existant over the past twenty years, and before. Being here to day and having backing may give one a better possibility of being here tomorrow, but no gaurantee. The PTB at Yahoo are obviously sweating bullets over the recent value of their stock along with Wall street prognosis for the forseeable future of same. Yahoo management is cooking up anti-takeover strategies, of course they claim this is not because of anything imminent, but you gotta wonder why they are planning such strategies. They must think they need them.
As I said you do present valid points for consideration, but that should not discourage anyone from trying to build a viable site. The one BIG lesson we can all learn from this is that we nned to depend on ourselves the most. KUDOS to BIDVILLE for keeping up with the rapid expansion as they have, but the success stories there are being made by the sellers. I am selling more there than I ever did at Yahoo.
captainkirk;
>>>>>"The fact that a group of people have started a number of yahoo clubs on bidville is meaningless. What is important is how many items have SOLD at bidville - that is the best measure of the impact of an online auction."<<<<<<<
Those clubs are working and helping to build the drive on the site. The smaller clubs are actually part of the larger network, they specialize in the different auction categories on BIDVILLE. Mine is Glass, china and pottery. The idea is to focus both individually and collectively on supporting and building these auctions. the clubs are for both buyers and sellers.
My ID is the same on BIDVILLE as here, if you go look, you will see a lot of bidding activity on my auctions. TRUE, I am starting a lot of them very low with no reserve, and this is generating the interest, but there is actual bidding going on and better than 80% of the auctions closing with bids, have multiple bidders on them. These are the items that sell for less than $20.00, the stuff that I cannot afford to let sit on Yahoo for relist after relist while paying fees. Unlike other clubs and message boards, these clubs are concentrating on the promotional, from posting your links there to the pictures on the front doors. The idea is to build traffic and get the listings that buyers want to see. And all we can do is try. Because iy will not happen otherwise.
The whole point is the auctions are made iup of the people using them. And if in the future Bidville gets built to the point they feel they can reneg on their promise to remain free of listing fees, then there will be another site that the same people and auction users will build. And we will have learned a few lessons about how to do it even better by then.
The truth of the matter is the exposure is self serving, by being on the front page of this forum, is almost certainly going to gaurantee increased traffic,(except for Amazon, obviously).
The PTB control that and there again, they are developing Yahoo hearing. But the clubs are there to help each other for the good of all the users on Bidville. If you can help, come on over. if you need help, come on over.
Edited for typos, spelling and because I felt like adding more.
[ edited by jimhhow on Mar 2, 2001 08:24 AM ]
Can't really disagree much with what you say. as I've said many times, choose the auction that suits you best, join clubs, work to make the auction better, etc., etc. Just make sure you understand whether the auction you've chosen has a viable business model before you spend too much of your free time helping build them. Maybe they've got a "secret plan" that is going to make them the exception rather than the rule, but better-financed internet operations have been forced either to charge significant fees or fold, so the initial odds are NOT encouraging for them. In fact history suggests that 6 months from now either they charge fees or fold, and they end up on the "scrap heap of dot coms" as well. But who knows?
posted on March 2, 2001 08:35:36 AM new
captainkirk:
I apologize for missing this posting earlier.
>>>>>"Jim - are you refering to my post possibly being "something bidbay cooked up"? I can't imagine why you would, i'm certainly not a bidbay cheerleader or anything. Just using public knowledge to rebut someone else's position "<<<<<
Why not at all. Didn't I state that I would think that if I were unreasonable?
You don't think I am unreasonable, do you?
I was actually trying to point out,(using public knowledge), the difference between number of listings and number of auctions. But I think you must already be aware of the difference, therefore how invalid any contention that Bidbay is #2 by virtue of number of auctions listed.
Of course I'm aware of it. I think bidbay's claims are rediculously exaggerated because of it. But the same analysis also exposes bidville's number of listings to be not as high an impact for the same reason.
It just shoots down the various claims that bidville should "automatically" get top billing here at AW because of their number of listings.
posted on March 2, 2001 08:49:20 AM new
jim, You folks are doing a great job over there with the Bidville clubs. Even more impressive considering that you only started two weeks ago. This type of effort looks like it would work well regardless of which site sellers were listing with or even if it was a group of independent sellers setting up a similar network.
posted on March 2, 2001 09:04:32 AM new
captainkirk >
It just shoots down the various claims that bidville should "automatically" get top billing here at AW because of their number of listings.
No, I believe Bidville has earned a top page forum because it has generated substantial interest as what is probably the leading alternative auction site.
That interest was stifled by moderator's locking threads related to Bidville, and it should come as no surprise that other discussion alternatives are popping up elsewhere.
And just in case you missed it, the top page Amazon forum's last posted message was February 26. (Please, somebody go over there and feign some interest, pleeeeeeeze.)
AuctionWatch is not providing top page forums because of number of listings or degree of interest. They are supporting only Amazon, Yahoo and eBay because they are the only auctions supported by their Auction Manager software.
Period.
Glad to see Bidville dropped their banner advertisements at AuctionWatch.
posted on March 2, 2001 09:10:43 AM new
If you think that BidVille is gaining interest, take a look at these stats that were taken last week and tell me where BidVille is.
http://www.lowestbids.com/number2site.asp
All I know is that these stats look like they come from the same place that Top9 gets its stats, which is PC Data Online.
posted on March 2, 2001 09:29:50 AM new
I think BidVille isn't there because they get no traffic. As for Yahoo!, I'm kind of confused because they list Amazon's number, and Amazon does a lot more than just auctions. They also list AW which doesn't have an auction site at all.
posted on March 2, 2001 09:37:40 AM new
A fair way rating auction sites might be;;;
bids/listings expressed as a fraction.
One of you number crunchers give that a try.
posted on March 2, 2001 09:47:45 AM new
All I'm saying is that they aren't getting any traffic. The site tried to do some advertising, but it appears that it hasn't helped.
