posted on September 27, 2000 11:13:56 PM new
I for one, am very happy with the Paypal service overall. It helps to speed up my transactions considerably, which means happier customers. Happy customers often become repeat customers, and I like that too.
I'll be upgrading soon, and I certainly won't mind paying the reasonable fee for the conveniences that Paypal provides (I am looking forward to the ATM card). I know that any other merchant account for accepting credit cards involves processing fees, and all the other merchant accounts I have seen have much higher fees than Paypal.
IMO, there is an added benefit in supporting Internet entities (ebay, paypal, yahoo, etc). By using them we are investing in our own individual futures. My life has changed drastically since I took my first step out onto the Web three years ago. For me, there is no going back. Look ahead!
posted on September 28, 2000 01:25:12 AM new
If one of your bidder use the fake Credit card, I bet you will not like PayPal again. Paypal will punish you for that transcation although you can't prevent the bidder use fake CC.
posted on September 28, 2000 02:03:32 AM new
gourmand - Any other company that holds your merchant account would do the same. As a Paypal member in good standing, I have no fear of being "punished" because some crook uses a stolen card. Paypal wants the business of honest sellers such as myself, and they will do the right thing for me. I have some protection as a verified user also.
There are procedures for dealing with dishonest people; sometimes those procedures take a little more time. The end result is worth the small inconvenience. If it were your credit card that was stolen (and used to purchase an item), I'm sure you'd greatly appreciate the security measures.
posted on September 28, 2000 06:34:59 AM new"If one of your bidder use the fake Credit card, I bet you will not like PayPal again"
What method of accepting credit card payments online affords you immunity to such a scenario? Even merchant accounts are subceptiable to credit card fraud.
From what I've seen PayPal puts a freeze on withdrawals until they've concluded the seller isn't part of the scam, BillPoint simply takes back the funds. I'm 100% sure that the other pay services have some sort of policy also.
If the issue is a serious concern then the solution would be to simply refuse credit card payments in any form.
posted on September 28, 2000 06:57:53 AM new
I think you are missing Gourmand's point. I accepted CC directly. It was MY decision which card to accept and to verify the payer. With Paypal, you get no such option. Someone sends you a payment with a stolen card, you dont get the ability to accept or reject the payment, you dont get confirmation of the cardholder's address, you dont even know what card was used. But if it is a stolen card, YOUR account is frozen. And not just the payment - the entire account. But in the meantime, other customers can continue paying into that account, you just cant access it even to see the payments. And so all these customers think that you are a crook, post bad feedback, make charge backs on their credit card and you are ruined. This is ALL Paypal's fault. They promised buyer address verification months ago. They promised to only freeze the questionable amount and not the whole account months ago. They promised that verification would protect the seller. I was a Paypal cheerleader, but the longer this goes on, the more I see the company as arrogant, heavy-handed and inconsiderate of their user base. I still accept paypal and dont think the fees are out of line. But I think their attitude is.
posted on September 28, 2000 09:44:57 AM new
I can't agree with you more, yisgood. I sent several emails to PayPal to ask for who use a fake CC immediately after they restricted my account, But PayPal didn't reply my email until 5 days later and told me not ship the item.
And in my case, I returned all the fake credit card payment to the cheater immediately after he/she sent me since I don't agree with the shipping fee. Obviously, It is both I and PayPal lost nothing. The money is still in that cheater's account and he/she can't withdraw that money within 1 day. But it seems PayPal will take a unlimit long time to investigate it and hold all my money on the account. And almost no emails to tell me what happen now. What I do now is to ship the items although I can't get payment now.
I used PayPal a lot before, now I have to switch to ExchangePath and encourage the winner to use the traditional way(snail mail).
And more, PayPal also restrict my wife's account. She has nothing to do with the fake Credit Card. No emails reply tell her why her account was restricted and what happen now.
oregoninwinter and uaru, I really hope you still like paypal if you met the same situation like me, but I can't. My hard earning money is on my account but I can't get it. It is not my fault but I'm being punished.
[ edited by gourmand on Sep 28, 2000 10:08 AM ]
posted on September 28, 2000 12:25:09 PM newgourmand, yes I'd be irked if I was unable to make withdrawals from my PayPal account if I was unknowingly paid with fraudulent funds. I'd be equally or more irked if payment was withdrawn from my account if the payment was made via BillPoint. What is the solution?
My point is what pay service will merrily go on their way when a member has been paid with fradulent funds? Don't you think its just a matter of time before someone gets an ExchangePath account to accept funds from stolen credit cards? Do you know what ExchangePath's policy is? I sincerely doubt they have a "turn the other cheek" policy.
posted on September 28, 2000 12:35:13 PM new
uaru: Having read your posts here before, I know that you are too intelligent to have missed the point. Sure, Billpoint and Exchangepath and all the others will take back charges on a stolen CC. But only Paypal will freeze a seller's entire account, including other money, make him jump through hoops to get it reopened, stall and delay. And only paypal required the bank account verification which they promised us would protect us against this sort of thing. Only paypal still does not give sellers an option to refuse a payment. All of these items were discussed here over a month ago. I was a paypal cheerleader when Damon made his promises. (And I believe that Damon is an unwitting dupe of his own company.) But it looks like paypal's agenda is to dream up new ways to charge the customers while not focusing on any of the important features that should have been put in place a long time ago. (Display of seller's name when payment is made, buyer's address on payment notification). Isnt is easier to prevent fraud rather than allow it to happen and then punish the victim instead of the perpetrator?
posted on September 28, 2000 01:08:46 PM new
Uaru: Not only paypal hold all my money, and also they have a very bad customer service. They reply your email very late or no reply, don't let know what are they doing and how long will the investigation take. Maybe they just ao hold my money for a longer time to gain more interest.
If Billpoint take the payment back, what I lost is just one transcation. Now on PayPal, I lost all my transcations. And I have to keep on shipping, otherwise my feedback will become negative pretty soon. Is PayPal a good service?
By the way, is that reasonable for paypal to freeze my wife's account? My wife's account had nothing to with that fake CC.
posted on September 28, 2000 02:24:13 PM new
You have my empathy gourmand, sorry I don't have the answers, I only have questions usually. I'm not sure about the wife account being frozen, don't they allow only one personal account per household? (not sure on that or even if both accounts are personal accounts)
posted on September 28, 2000 04:42:54 PM new
>>I'm not sure about the wife account being frozen, don't they allow only one personal account per household? (not sure on that or even if both accounts are personal accounts)<<
I had a business account in my business name and my wife had a personal account in her name. One day, without warning, Paypal shut down my account. It took a bunch of emails and phone calls before they told me that the two accounts were a TOS violation. I argued with them and said that even so, they should have at least sent me an email or asked me which one to shut down. They shut down the really active one that had payments already in it and then accepted payments from other people but I never got notified. After posting some nasty messages here, Jennifer (Damon's predecessor) got it resolved and the closed account was reopened.
One of my concerns with Paypal is that when there is real fraud (someone accepting a payment and not sending out the merchandise) they dont seem to care at all but when there is even a perceived TOS violation or some innocent seller getting a payment from another account that might be a problem, they jump into action and freeze the account without notice. Now either you are responding quickly to possible fraud, in which case they should always jump in an investigate, or you proceed with caution, in which case you should always email first. But PP doesnt seem to have any rules or procedures and that worries me.
posted on September 28, 2000 06:16:06 PM new
Thank your empathy, uaru. If you met the same situation as me in the future, will you still say "I still like PayPal...a lot!"?
And I also checked TOS, didn't find any linitation for "only one account oer household". The only limitation is on eperson only can have on personal account and one Premier or Business Account.
Eligibility.
In order to use the Service, you must register for a Personal, Premier, or Business account. If you use the Service for the purpose of conducting e-commerce on a regular basis, you agree to register for, or upgrade to, a Premier or Business Account. You agree that you will register for and maintain no more than one Personal and one Premier or Business Account. X.com reserves the right to terminate duplicate accounts. You must be at least 16 years of age to register for an account. If you are under the age of 18, you hereby represent that you are using the service with the consent of your parent or guardian.
[ edited by gourmand on Sep 28, 2000 06:31 PM ]
[ edited by gourmand on Sep 28, 2000 06:32 PM ]
posted on September 28, 2000 09:10:18 PM new
Recently I needed to deal with Damon.
I found him to be very helpful and very quick to respond and aid in resolving the problem. It turns out that the problem was on my end and not Paypal's. Damon was very pleasant and went out of his way to help.
I am beginning to think the man is being a target in a shooting contest. Lets all realize that it is Paypal as a company that you are angry with and not Damon. He is trying to do his job the best way that we allow him too.
Think about what it would be like to be in his shoes for just a moment. Hummmm not a very nice thought is it? He does not make all the corporate decisions, but ends up being directly blamed and severly insulted for everything! Lets give the poor guy a break!! He certainly deserves it after all we have put him through!
Have a heart!
[ edited by featherwings on Sep 30, 2000 01:07 AM ]
posted on September 28, 2000 11:45:54 PM new
I just asked to withdraw half of the paltry amount I still have with PayPal with no problem at all. Of course, it could be that said paltry amount causes them no trouble to refund, or perhaps it is because I asked for a check & not a deposit into my bank account (something I have avoided all along with PayPal). Still, I would check with them to see if there is a glitch with your account. Or you might try again--perhaps you asked for your withdrawal during today's "upgrade" and their computer just couldn't handle two things at once...
posted on September 30, 2000 01:02:09 AM new
THANK YOU DAMON !!
I WANT ALL TO KNOW THAT DAMON HAS HELPED ME FIX MY PROBLEM!!
THE PROBLEM WAS THAT FOR SOME REASON, I HAD LISTED TWO BANK NUMBERS. ONE DID NOT INCLUDE THE LAST TWO DIGITS OF MY BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER. I DON'T RECALL ENTERING MY BANK ACCOUNT NUMBERS TWICE, BUT WHEN I WAS A NEWBIE I MUST HAVE GOTTEN NERVIOUS. SOME WHERE ALONG THE LINE, I MUST HAVE SWITCHED THE PRIMARY NUMBER FROM THE RIGHT ONE, TO THE INCORRECT ONE.
THE PROBLEM WAS NOT PAYPALS FAULT, IT WAS MY VERY OWN!!
I AM VERY SORRY PAYPAL!
DAMON RESPONDED VERY VERY QUICKLY WITH VERY VALUABLE INFORMATION! HE WAS EXTREMELY PLEASANT.
I WILL CONTINUE TO BE A PAYPAL SUPPORTER.
FROM MY DIRECT DEALINGS WITH DAMON, IT IS MY ASSUMPTION THAT HE IS NOT THE BAD GUY IN THE MYST OF ALL THE PAYPAL CONFUSION AND FRUSTRATION!
BUT THAT IS JUST MY OPINION. I KNOW MANY WILL NOT AGREE AND I DO UNDERSTAND!
posted on September 30, 2000 07:06:27 PM new
As the above reply indicated... It's doubtful if you'll still like PayPal after they freeze your account & all funds... Unlike other financial institutes, they d o not just freeze the funds in question, but ALL FUNDS IN THE ACCOUNT!!
posted on October 3, 2000 08:41:12 PM new
Thank you for your reply... I will be sure not to go against the TOS and fall into that problem. I like to stay on the straight and narrow. I find you get into less trouble that way.
Your input is of value to me. Thanks.
But I know that Damon takes care of people who follow the rules.
posted on October 4, 2000 09:49:22 AM new
As I said before, featherwings, you are lucky. I believe I nerver broke the TOS but My account was restricted for more than 10 days. And also as I said before, if you are in my situation, you will nerver say "I like PayPal".
posted on October 4, 2000 07:56:33 PM new
Gourmand,
I understand your situation, and I think that it is really a bad position to be in! Please do not think that I don't care. I would also feel the way you do, if the same thing happened to me! I do hope that your situation resolves itself REAL SOON !! You have waited long enough!
My position is that, I have been following a few of these board listings, and frankly about 90% are complaints were, instead of contacting Damon via e-mail, the people are complaining here! I know...I myself did the same, and I should have known better. But I did not know how to contact Damon, or for that matter, that Damon even existed.
My point is that rather than everyone complaining here, and I must say rather venomiatly, why not give Damon a chance to resolve the matter first. Then after a reasonable length of time, and to no avail, then I can see a person resorting to b**ching here! It does help to get ones frustrations out, but as with any company, it is best to contact them first, before sitting out front of the store with a big sign saying don't shop here!
posted on October 4, 2000 08:15:27 PM new
"My position is that, I have been following a few of these board listings, and frankly about 90% are complaints were, instead of contacting Damon via e-mail, the people are complaining here!"
Damon is not the customer service department! He does not even work in that departement! True most of the posters here have not contacted him, why should they? In most of these cases, they have repeatedly called and e-mailed the APPROPRIATE departments at PayPal with no response or resolution. I ask the same question again...Why should these problems require Damons intervention? Why aren't they handled appropriatly to begin with?
