posted on March 21, 2001 05:53:41 AM new
I AM THE PIANO PLAYER DON'T SHOOT ME !!!
I am just delievering a message to everyone on this yahoo board area ???
I have done alot of thinking, and been with the internet at the baby stages, and i am dead sure where the auction houses are going, and the picture host as well...
Their is no doubt in my mind that the good old days are over !!! when you can find a free site to put your items on, and load your jpg. pictures up to it's host, or another on the net.
The pattern is to easy read from where i sit. just like the small towns that had many mom and pop stores, and now are a thing of the past slowly eatin up by big brother company's such as walmart, k-mart, excuse me, BIG k-mart, target etc, ...
So is the internet area, the auction sites will too... instead of mom and pop, the small time seller, the cost will skyrocket, and only the big boys will pay the bills, like a hugh internet mall type of service. where you can buy a car, buy a dress, and so on. since most fleamarkets have went down hill in the last 10 to 15 years, because anytime their was a fleamarket, a hugh store would open up right down the road... and the fleamarket couldn't sell below or even at their price's. so the small timer closed up shop.
the writing on the wall is clear, this is the way i see it, a person, or persons, or company start a new site on the web called free auctions, then after a year or so, when their site is up and running start adding fee's, first they start out with feature fee;s, then picture host fee;s, then listing fee's, then final value fee's. the pattern is so clear...
i am getting tired of hopping from site to site becuase of this. i mean why pay a thousand dollars a month to a site that only brings me in less than a thousand dollars, or so. and in the very best case maybe $2,000 that month, still losing money, because i am giving my items away at cost, or less...
no the answer that we all where looking for on line, is slowly fading away. i hope, and pray, i am wrong, and come back on this board, and say i am wrong, and have egg on my face, but my gut tells me that i am 100 percent right on the target...
from;
minuteman...
The british are comming !!!
[ edited by startrek on Mar 21, 2001 05:56 AM ]
posted on March 21, 2001 06:35:57 AM new
Oh, I think you're right, I think you're right.
I never used AW or any of the other similar "auction services" but I have moved most of my images to a place that also offers shops, and will no doubt be opening a shop there at the end of the month. In the meantime I can keep all my images there (no limit) and use their templates to submit to auction for free. But I have no illusions it will be free forever. My hope is that once they do start charging I can actually AFFORD extra fees.
MY big problem with the way things are going (and I'm specifically talking about ebay), is that there's no cap on what is "enough" money-making. Obviously, it's not acceptable to continually and perennially LOSE money, but how much money is "enough"? The only answer to making more and more and more is to buy/develop other services (Blackthorne, image hosting, cripple 3rd party auction services with their flakey code,) buy up competing services (half.com), go global, and attract more and more of the BIG boys (Disney and so forth) -- all at the expense of the small seller.
IMO (completely lay, certainly not professional), if some of what ebay is doing these days isn't anti-trust material, then it oughtta be. I don't think it serves the world to have ONE auction service with which none others can dare to dream to compete, even if that ONE auction service was the originator and and (so far) the smartest.
posted on March 22, 2001 08:57:28 AM new
Internet auctions tend to be natural monopolies. Whoever achieves critical mass first will continue on to take a substantial unbeatable lead. In the US it's Ebay, in Japan it's Yahoo.
Actually, success by Ebay isn't like a bad thing. If Ebay becomes wildly successful it MUST follow that a lot of individuals and small businesses are successful.
posted on March 22, 2001 09:02:54 AM new
John10101 >
Whoever achieves critical mass first will continue on to take a substantial unbeatable lead. In the US it's Ebay, in Japan it's Yahoo.
Which begs the question. Why hasn't Yahoo!Japan implemented listing fees on their auctions?
posted on March 22, 2001 09:14:07 AM new
The most illogical thing that's happened is that ePay can dominate so completely in the face of free alternative auction sites.
With a universal search engine for buyers available right here on Auction Watch and free auctions just a mouse click or 2 away, sellers still pay ePay's many fees and put up with their smoke and mirrors. This makes little sense until you face the reason:
Joe Six-pack doesn't know how to use his/her computer. It's all they can do to find ePay again tomorrow.
posted on March 22, 2001 01:25:58 PM new
dimview: "Which begs the question. Why hasn't Yahoo!Japan implemented listing fees on their auctions?"
DimView,
Excellent question. I've been wondering why Yahoo doesn't try to become the "Ebay of Japan". I think they could start slow and put in a very small listing fee just to get people used to the idea and to eliminate the less active items. As in the US they'd lose many of the 2 million items in Japan but you have to start somewhere. Then in a year they could increase the listing fee followed the next year with the success fee.
There has been some thought about Japanese not liking used goods. That could be true. Also, apparently credit card use isn't very widespread there so that could dampen things in the long run. Apparently, they use postal money orders a lot there.
Another problem is that Yahoo basically stands for free internet and people tend to get irate at the idea of paying them for services. In contrast, people fully expect that they would some day have to pay fees to sell on Ebay. Also, Ebay would only implement fees once the site became active enough so most sellers would be able to pay the fees and also have profits. Better goods leads to more buyers, which leads to more sellers, which leads to more buyers ...
Using this formula Ebay's successfully transplanted themselves (with listing and success fees) in Germany and the UK.
John
P.S. By the way, how does one do bold type and italics on this board?
posted on March 22, 2001 02:10:34 PM new
Actually japan yahoo will start charging next month. The sellers are already complaing though. Of course that is until I told him how much I am being charged at yahoo. Get this, Yahoo Japan, which beats ebay japan by 6 80 percent, will start charging a equivalent of 5.00 a month for unlimited list!!!!! They got it luckier than us, and currently their auction is thriving with tons of bids!!! WHy are we being punished!!!
posted on March 22, 2001 02:29:37 PM new
ironking >
Actually japan yahoo will start charging next month.
Do you happen to have a link to that news item?
Latest information I could find included this excerpt from January 18:
Two days ago, Yahoo Asia had said that it will not charge for premium services in Mail or Messenger although its US parent had earlier hinted that it might start charging consumers in search for additional revenues.
The company had also maintained that its auction services in Asia will continue to be free despite its decision to charge a fee for auction items listed on the US site.
posted on March 23, 2001 08:22:53 AM new
In my opinion, one of the reasons eBay is so fantastically successful, beyond the obvious, is that for most folks (buyers in particular) it is the only auction site they are aware of!!!!
We own a large antique shop, and you would be amazed how many people who come in to our shop who have no idea there are any other on line auctions on line outside of eBay - most were not even aware of Yahoo.
I know this sounds unbelievable to those of us active in the business, but that is the fact - I had a collector in yesterday who is fairly active on line but totally oblivious to any auction site beyond eBay!
Only loads of money and lots of media exposure will turn this "awareness" situation around.
posted on March 28, 2001 06:40:45 PM new
Big corps don't wipe out all the small businesses, just the one's who don't have a unique marketing position. If the big corps take over ebay, then those sellers who have a unique marketing position simply move to another site (epier, 321 etc) and the buyers have to follow because the big corps can't compete for small markets.
The big corps will also find it hard to use the auction format w/ or w/o BIN. Buyers do use BIN but at prices lower than retail. Can the big corps handle that reduction? Will the shareholders be happy? This is all untested and it will take years to unfold.
posted on March 28, 2001 07:19:39 PM new
The small seller will not have any chance to profit by the big corps coming to eBay, regardless of what they may sell.
The small seller will be priced out of the listings on eBay when the corps show up.
Server space is cheap, the competition is for eyeballs, and there is no way a small seller will be permited to list next to a big corp for $2.
The big corps will also DEMAND that buyers be directed to their space should eBay ever be segmented between large and small sellers.
The reason small sellers will be a thing of the past is the same reason you don't see small operations at large mega malls- the real estate prices are too high.
Selling "collectables" or any unique items will be cost prohibitive on space anywhere near big corps.
If the oposite were true, Aunt Sara's dinner would be next to a MacDonalds, and Joe's used cars and pawn service would have a storefront on Madison Ave. It is not that these sellers could not sell to each other's customers, it is a fact that a small seller can not afford to run with these big dogs or it would be happening in the brick and motar world.
[ edited by reamond on Mar 28, 2001 07:25 PM ]
posted on March 28, 2001 07:52:43 PM new
A word to the wise seller- database all your customer information, email addresses, shipping addresses, names etc. You may regret not retaining this information 2 years from now if you want to sell online.
posted on March 29, 2001 01:15:03 PM new
There are no DUMB buyers just ill informed sellers who need to take a course in small business before they slam those they want to sell to. It's called Business Ethic's, but please read up on business expenses and think about what it cost the free sites to give you the gravy you think you deserve just for being you. The only ones that have been losing is the free domains you are so mad at, it's about time they stood up to those who only take. You get what you give!
Nothing for nothing.
I frankly see more DUMB sellers then buyers. May the IRS have mercy on your souls.
posted on March 29, 2001 01:47:30 PM new
dear rollanotherone;
I never looked at it that way before, your point on the seller issue was very well thought up, and provoking, on the edge of another realm, could be as i am a seller, and have done much deep thought on your post, and what it means to the world, and the internet area, the main theme of your message was taken under consideration, and could be used in some areas of life, and the internet, as well as different items from day to day that come up, i believe with a hint of what you where trying to bring out may indeed help some others who are looking for your guidness on this topic, and in the end result produce what you are looking for, i can see clearly that your opinion can not only show sellers the way, but influence the whole internet society as we see it, this could then start a whole new area of internet talk on the subject which you started, i feel as speaking for myself, that we can look forward to this happening in the future, can you see this as well, maybe soon, in any case your thoughts are on all our minds, and we say together that your way of looking at the picture changes things for sure, could be to internet sites change for the seller as well, good post keep them coming, i know i have learned a great deal from your thoughts on the subject, hope many see as clearly as i do about your thoughts, and statements, this could start a whole new opening of area's to produce what we would expect. don't you agree ...???
posted on March 29, 2001 03:03:31 PM new
rolllanotherone
We worked our butts off to make sales there. Nothing was free. Time IS money, if you do not benefit from the time involved. They made plenty of money using us, not vice-versa.
posted on March 29, 2001 06:35:05 PM new
I see your point, each one has their own way, which is to say who is right, and who is wrong, i am not the judge, just the piano player, it is not up to me, the one it is up to is the one who knows all, rollanotherone has his way, it is right in his own eyes, he fills his barns a certain way, and runs his business the way he sees fit, we all can't be like him, nor like me, or you, we must continue to redo the works, and the sites will come into focus, this message is very clear, don't you see, this is the time to come together right now over this situation, and take action by coming up with different thoughts, rollanotherone 's thoughts came from a special place, this place was not easy to get to. i am sure if he was here, he would tell you his thoughts on the matter. for now we must look forward to what lies ahead...
posted on March 29, 2001 07:58:08 PM new
I see your point on the sentence structure, and of course i couldn't agree more with you on sentence structures, these things are important just like auction sites, and what rollanother one said, we must make every option to see ourselves as a extension of our selves in this matter, hope we all see this, i know i do, thanks for writing in to share what was on your mind, both you and rollaroundone can see the impotance of this, i feel just the way you do on this matter, hope to hear from you again...
posted on March 29, 2001 08:58:06 PM new
I see the importance of your post, the words can sound like that at times, but i am sure each in their own way comes what may, and this is clear, that many have different things that come to surface, we know this by the different meanings that come to light.
thanks for your post, it goes along with the flow of the conversation that is repeated here, and this shows what is on everyone's minds, that we all see this very clear...
posted on March 29, 2001 09:09:14 PM new
Look, i agree with posters like Rollanotherone and twelvepole. They are fed up with sellers complaining about yahoo all the time. Yahoo auction will succeed, as their listing fee's will prove! again, I listed 13 items this week, most of it closed with buy it now, as for deadbeats, it seems yahoo WILL credit back listing fee, so what do I have to lose?
I think those making noise are the bitter ones, while the happy ones are too busy selling at yahoo!!! I enjoy posts by rollanotherone and twelvepole, cant most of you be like them?????
posted on March 29, 2001 11:07:32 PM new
These free sites aren't making money off us? What is advertising revenue? The more members, the more page views, the higher the revenue. Without our listings who is going to show up and look around at the ads?
Besides, all we as sellers are asking for is to be charged according to the value we receive. Some sellers will pay more just to receive better customer sevice from the site, most others want bid action. That is fair to ask because we have other choices and if it's seen as whining then pity the site who doesn't take notice (see Yahoo). Other sites (i.e AW) took notice and made a change in the fee structure when they heard our whining. It still *!@%ed but that's another story.
posted on March 30, 2001 02:27:37 AM newstartrek, I see you decided to "roll another one" before posting here today. I'm sure you're using it for totally legal MEDICINAL purposes, right???
When you come down from the clouds, you might like to know that rollanotherone is FEMALE, if I remember correctly, supported by a husband who makes so much money in construction that she doesn't need to turn a PROFIT when she sells on YahWho (unlike the rest of us whom she looks down upon with such disdain). She auctions out of BOREDOM, and when she's REALLY REALLY bored (such as now, when she has no bidders on her auctions because YahWho is dead as a doornail) she comes here and insults everyone.
OK, I'm game.....I'LL CALL THE BUYERS DUMB.
I've just received my 9th email from a buyer in South Korea who refuses to accept anything I tell him (hey, it's not MY FAULT the postal workers in Korea STEAL PACKAGES and that the USPS won't insure anything less than $36.00 Express Mail), and I'm so sick to death of fooling with him, I'm ready to cancel his winning bid and go list the thing on eGreed.
I got a "Question & Answer" question on a listing in which the girl asks EIGHT QUESTIONS about the book....most of which were answered IN THE LISTING DESCRIPTION, had she bothered to READ it. And someone else writes and tells me what he has....wants me to look up the value in my guides and tell him what it's worth. Appraisers don't work for free, so why should I? If he wants to know the value, he can BUY THE BOOK or research it like the rest of us do.
rollanotherone, honey, there isn't a "course in small business" in this entire world that teaches what I've learned in my years of dealing with 'John Q STUPID Public', so come down off your high horse and quit preaching politically-correct attitude to the rest of us.
Yahoo could have GOTTEN the money they needed from their sellers through other fee structures, had they not taken a holier-than-thou attitude (like a few posters on these boards, I won't mention any names but we all know whom I'm talking about) and turned a DEAF EAR to our comments and suggestions. Now their Auction is withering and shriveling into nothing, and I'm not taking one lousy ounce of blame for it. As mint4you said, "We worked our butts off to make sales there" and now we get to start all over again somewhere else.
posted on March 30, 2001 06:07:09 AM new
I can see what your saying about rolloneout, and mintpie as well, they both have good points, and as you too, of course granny the problem here goes much deeper than we realize, the main thing to look at is the direction we all are going these days, as it is important to see the big picture and to paint the right one is clear as we can see it, this is clear to me, howabout you, good, now let's move on to the summer months where we can plan ahead, and take the bad with the good, and can work on our fine points to produce a happy medium to bring into existance what we need to fill the order, and go on from their to show what we can do when we pull ouselves together,,,
