posted on August 22, 2000 07:54:23 PM new
So far 4 out 5 deadbeats, and this is a slow month besides. All these deadbeats have 0 feedback. Yahoo needs to prequalfy these new members with a credit card.
posted on August 23, 2000 07:25:39 AM new
Don't hold your breath, we have been asking for this for years. Yahoo only cares about getting clicks. The more clicks, the better. If those clicks come from deadbeats and scammers, they don't care. I have come up with a solution that has really dropped the deadbeats from 1/3 of my bidders to 1/20. I have posted it here before. If you havent seen it, you can email me at [email protected].
posted on August 23, 2000 08:08:22 AM new
I have not experienced this problem and wonder if it varies substancially between categories.
I have noticed responses and payments, on average, seem to take a little more time and have come to believe that many YAHOO users are not on several times every day as is the case with eBay.
I've been pleased with the higher than I expected number of buyers that use PayPal and sometimes even send payment before my EOA's go out.
With items like books and LP,s, almost all auctions 1st Bid Win and the mix of other listings attracting older buyers my auctions just may not appeal to whatever the profile is that constitutes "non-paying bidders".
I hope it stays that way for me and improvements are made that reduce this problem throughout the site.
posted on August 23, 2000 08:15:37 AM new
We have discussed this on Yahoo's seller club and come to the conclusion that it's a much worse problem with high priced items. Maybe the bidder "wins a few and then takes one. Maybe they find it cheaper elsewhere. Or they run out of cash. It probably happens much more often on items of $100 or more than items of $10 or less.
It is also a much more serious problem on high ticket items. I bought 2 digital cameras for a liquidator for $400 when they were selling all over for $600. I put them on Yahoo at $450. I "sold" them 8 times to deadbeats. Two months later, with $800 tied up in unsold inventory and price breaks being announced, I sold them locally for $410 apiece. All that time and effort wasted to make $20 on an $800 investment. I could have just left the money in a mutual fund. So I take deadbeating very seriously and have taken steps to reduce my deadbeats.
posted on August 23, 2000 09:43:53 AM new
Ok, now I have one more user with no email address, and another user whose email bounced back saying "user not found." That same person bid twice on a Dutch with almost identical email addresses, and bid for Qty 2 for each username. This month takes the cake for the worst month!
"If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it."
posted on August 23, 2000 11:18:00 AM new
We get less than 1 in 10 deadbeats. Used to be about 1 in 8. Ebay deadbeats are 1 in 4 over the last 6 months. No kidding. This is a major reason I can't stand to list there, the NPB procedure is for the birds.
I have always found the deadbeat complaint on Yahoo to be exaggerated.
posted on August 23, 2000 11:33:56 AM new
>>I have always found the deadbeat complaint on Yahoo to be exaggerated.<<
Then you are selling low priced items or specialty items that only attract a select group of bidders or you have been very lucky. Visit Yahoo's Seller Zone club and you will learn about folks with 80 IDs involved in contests for who can get the highest negative feedback (some have negative 3 digits). They bid on auctions for the "fun" of leaving bad feedback. Last week a seller went on vacation. While she was away, some bozo used 50 fake ids to bid her buy price, "win" her auctions and leave bad feedback. He reduced her 45 rating to a negative number.
Greedbay may have a deadbeat problem but it's nothing like Yahoo's.
posted on August 23, 2000 11:54:50 AM new
yisgood - I saw what happened to that seller's feedback and agonize for her. Yahoo has removed the negs, and this is an isolated incident. If this were commonplace we would see trashed feedback on a daily basis but we don't. What I see is more and more sellers with fb in the hundreds and more and more buyers NOT "new" but with 7 or 8 or 10 fb, in other words - becoming regular Yahoo buyers.
What I don't understand is why you sell on Yahoo when you find it so inadequate.
I think Yahoo is the bomb and we all have it made.
posted on August 23, 2000 12:00:54 PM new
I sell on Yahoo because
a) it's free
b) I started there over a year ago and have over 100 rating
c) I have found a way around the deadbeat problem
It always upsets me when someone puts a lot of time and effort into building something and then stops 5% from completion. Yahoo could be the #1 auction site today if yahoo just gave a damn. But their attitude is "here it is. it's free. so use it or leave but just leave us alone. we don't want your suggestions. We won't do anything that takes any effort."
I use Yahoo for what it's good for - free adversiting. Most of my auctions close with no winners. But for every auction I post, I usually sell one or two items directly off my web site by someone who found me on Yahoo. Unlike greedbay, there is nothing wrong with this on Yahoo.
posted on August 23, 2000 12:10:05 PM new
yisgood- how do you know what their "attitude" is?
I think their attitude is "We are going to plant a seed, and give it everything it needs to thrive. Once it has rooted we will carefully contemplate the best way to prune for overall health. We will gather data, assimilate it, observe and decide where, when and how much to cut. We will add additional nutrients as needed to promote growth and will keep our eye on the ball, and the big picture not bothering to waste time or energy trying to please everybody."
yisgood, you underestimate Yahoo. You are in very good hands.
posted on August 23, 2000 12:20:19 PM new
>>yisgood- how do you know what their "attitude" is? <<
Because I visit the seller zone regularly. There is at least one Yahoo employee who is almost always there. He used to respond to our messages with empty promises or excuses. Eventually we started responding with "that's what you said a year ago, we're still waiting." Then he said that since Y! is free, they dont have the resources to implement certain things. But during that same period, they implemented a whole bunch of things no one wanted and everyone hates.
Some examples:
1)Auction relistings twice instead of 5 times. 2) Negative bidders can still bid on your auctions even if you choose to restrict it to a higher rating. 3) People with many negatives still bidding. They used to be kicked off at -3.
When we asked why Y! is making changes no one wants and ignoring the ones we asked for that he agreed were good changes, he just stopped responding. Now he just lurks. A thread from bidpay right on this site revealled the fact that bidpay warned a number of sites about the guy selling hard drives and not delivering. Ebay kicked him off. Yahoo did not. An article I read about a seller who accepted credit cards and then used them to order other merchandise on web sites also stated (not an exact quote but the gist) "Ebay is working with authorities to stop him. However, he is still active on Yahoo and Yahoo stated they do not police their site."
I can find you a dozen scam artists on Yahoo in five minutes. Folks on the Seller Zone find dozens each day. Why cant Yahoo? When Sony threatened to sue Yahoo over the music pirates, Y! shut down thousands of auctions overnight. A week or two later, they're all back. That proves that Y! could stop it if they wanted to. And how hard is it to verify an email id? Why is Y! filled with new users who are bidding under a non-existent email id? Show me one thing about their attitude that indicates they give a damn.
posted on August 23, 2000 12:24:02 PM new
I've had an annoying amount of deadbeats in the last 2 weeks. Not all of them were on Yahoo, I had some on Ebay as well. I get much more irritated at the ones on Ebay, as they cost me quite a bit in money and time. Not only is the whole fee recuperation process a PITA, I usually put my items in the gallery, so it's a minimum of 50¢ per item that I can't recover. And usually more as I tend to start the bidding at about what I want for the item.
I'm seriously annoyed at the 3 international deadbeats I've had in the last 2 weeks, as I packaged their items, took them to the post office to get shipping quotes, & emailed them revised invoices.
I don't usually have much of a problem with deadbeats, but this has been crazy. Was there a full moon or a stock market crash recently to make so many people deadbeat at once?
I think Reston Ray is right- some categories are less deadbeat-prone. My deadbeat categories this week have been toys and men's clothes.
posted on August 23, 2000 02:35:25 PM new
yisgood - a group in the sellerzone is just that, a group in the seller zone. They do not speak for all Yahoo sellers.
I am glad that the relists are cut to 3. The complaints claiming listings on Yahoo were
"stale" had merit and this is one way to attempt to address it without CRIPPLING any sellers. I appreciate that it takes more time to relist more often when you are selling in high volume, but I bet many of the original complainers if asked today would report it is no big deal, and in other cases admit that having adjusted, at this point they prefer it this way.
I read the Bidpay thread that you mention and what the rep said is that PAYPAL did not take action, not Yahoo. If I am wrong, dig it up and show me. Regarding ebay policing their site, this is a joke. Users police their site, same as Yahoo and Neighborhood watch.
On the "damn" thing, it is very apparent to me that yahoo gives a damn. They treat
sellers as if they have value. They give me
great tools and access to their enormous audience and only ask me to follow a couple rules - basically - be polite and don't plaster my auctions on top of every one elses. In other words - "play nicely".
How you can find a list of things to complain about is completely baffling to me.
[ edited by VeryModern on Aug 23, 2000 02:36 PM ]
[ edited by VeryModern on Aug 23, 2000 02:36 PM ]
posted on August 23, 2000 02:52:07 PM new
Re the sellerzone - how about some acknowledgment of what Yahoo has done for them?
Hey all you new sellers comin' over...
Didya know that Yahoo gave the sellers who were there some months back free money to feature auctions with? A buck for each ebay feedback. This means I am sitting on just under $500 worth of credit to spend to feature auctions. That ought to last awhile, and a heck of a way to say thanks.
So let's see...
I have to relist after 3 times, not 5, but I have a more vital site to sell on and $500, just because.
posted on August 23, 2000 03:27:53 PM new
I am somewhat of a new seller. I listed here back in fall of 1999, sold some, not much (13 FB) and went back to ebay becuase I was selling better there, but I'm outta there! Fees, no service and bad attitude from mgmt. at ebay. With Yahoo, I can advertise my site freely, speak freely on boards, and pay no fees. If I can find a way to sell consistently over here I will have won. I think Yahoo has made great progress with their site in the past 9 months and their count is up. Check out my auction counts page. It took me about six hours to compile, but I believe it is very accurate.
http://www.dtmagazine.com/auctioncounts.html
I really want to get a buck to feature auctions for all of my 500+ FB on ebay. To whom should I email?
posted on August 23, 2000 03:40:29 PM new
fearlessrick - thanks for the link.
On the fb deal - they only offered this for a short time (a week, maybe 10 days at most) some months ago (4??). It was very likely to try to stimulate spending on featured auctions - try it for free, you may like it kind of deal.
As it turned out, I think many of us had so much we will be spending the credits for a long time to come, so the new thing is the
lowered cost and the rebate if it sells.
Regardless of what was intended, the result here is that those of us who were plugging away some months ago before the tide turned to a more remarkable degree toward Yahoo are sitting pretty. Some of us appreciate this.
On finding a way to sell on Yahoo, there is not doubt that you can. Many many of us have proved that it can be done and although I run 2-3 auctions a month on Ebay (compared to 300 on Yahoo), I consider it an egregious chore and horribly distasteful - something to suffer through in comparison to Yahoo.
[ edited by VeryModern on Aug 23, 2000 03:41 PM ]
posted on August 23, 2000 05:26:23 PM new
>>I read the Bidpay thread that you mention and what the rep said is that PAYPAL did not take action, not Yahoo.<<
Marek said that the SITES were contacted and ebay kicked him off but Yahoo took no action. I also read in a computer magazine a few months ago about a seller who accepted credit cards. What he actually did was order merchandise from other sites using those cards. The article stated that ebay was working with authorities to apprehend him but he was still active on Y!. A Y! spokesman said that Y! does not police its site. The Sony et.al. class action lawsuit over the pirated software and music offered openly in Yahoo made quite a few papers. Y! promised to remove it and the lawsuit died. They removed it overnite and over the next few weeks it came right back.
>> Regarding ebay policing their site, this is a joke. Users police their site, same as Yahoo and Neighborhood watch. <<
But ebay kicks people off for violations, Y! doesnt. And ebay requires a credit card if you use a free ISP, so it's not that simple to get endless IDs. Yahoo doesnt even validate the that email ID is valid.
The bottom line is how many scams can you find on ebay in ten minutes? I can find dozens on Y!. There is no attempt to even hide it. Auctions for "free money" that are just a link to sign up for Paypal. The same seller selling dozens of the same item in different categories. A seller named greatjewels with a 20 rating from buyers greatjewels1 through greatjewels20. How long would these guys last on ebay? Y! promised that bidders with -3 would be kicked off. We have bidders with -80 still active. And that seller who had her rating trashed, that was not an isolated incident. There are sellers on the seller zone with their third or fourth id because some crazy bidder is trashing their auctions as fast as they put them up. How difficult is it to validate an email ID? Y! has been promising this for over a year, yet bidders are still using non-existent ones.
>>On the "damn" thing, it is very apparent to me that yahoo gives a damn. They treat
sellers as if they have value. <<
Y! doesn't "treat" anyone, good seller, bad seller, deadbeat or scam artist any differently. They ignore everybody equally and everybody does in Yahoo whatever they please. There are NO rules. I have managed to make it work for me but it was not without a lot of loss and aggravation. What bothers me is that the changes we asked for, which Y! spokesman agreed were valuable, are so small. Email validation, kicking off -3, restricting auctions to bidders with positive feedback (which was actually there and they took it away!).
I'm glad Y! is working for you but it will never be a serious contender with greedbay until someone in charge wakes up.
posted on August 23, 2000 05:40:32 PM new
I am weary from the debate yisgood - we will never agree, but I do have to offer that yahoo already is a serious contender to ebay.
posted on August 24, 2000 05:58:04 PM new
I'm so glad to see Yisgood posting here. He is the only poster I miss after those old hags gave me the boot at the Seller Zone.
Let me tell you all this: Yisgood is a very smart man and he's been courageous in telling you honestly about Yahoo. He his right on the money whith his analysis. He was the one who filled in the missing piece in my mind as to why Yahoo is such a Mickey Mouse company.
That missing piece was when he pointed out long ago that it costs 10 cents to match a credit card # with a name, but nothing just to see if the credit card # is valid. So that's how someone can verify 50 user ID's with a credit card...because any valid card # will do.
Yes, Yahoo saved $100,000 per million registered users, and that isn't hay. But torun a 1st class business you can't set up shop on a street corner. Here is the bottom line about Yahoo: They pretty mich have a manager and a handful of programmers and no other budget. Everything they do is completely automated and computer dependent. And the manager is not very open to user suggestions and has used his resources to make changes nobody wants.
Here's a recent example: I complained for 2 years that the book listing tree was so pathetic that nobody browses there. If they aren't looking for your book with the search engine, forget it. I also suggested a trip to any used bookstore would enable any moron to devise a listing tree for books that made sense. Did they chane books? No
But they changed video tape movies. It used to be a movie coud be put in Drama, Comedy, Action, Sch-Fi and a fre others. That sounds just right to me. So what did they do? they added about 30 subcategories to each of those. Now under Comedy you have these choices:
Afterlife (21)
Animals (30)
Babysitters (14)
Back in School (13)
Beach (3)
Biographical (8)
Blaxploitation@ (563)
Buddy (33)
Cartoon and Comic (75)
Characters (105)
College (23)
Coming of Age (32)
Crime (89)
Dark Comedy (82)
Families (192)
Fish Out of Water (24)
Guardian Angels (3)
Historical (5)
Holidays (9)
Legal (7)
Magical Powers (22)
Marijuana Subculture (16)
Medical (11)
Military (34)
Mind-Switch (4)
Mistaken Identity (14)
Mockumentary (9)
Period (17)
Political (20)
Relationships (128)
Revenge (12)
Road (16)
Romantic Comedy (263)
Satire (50)
Saturday Night Live Spin-Offs (59)
Science Fiction (33)
Scientists and Investors (5)
Sex Comedy (52)
Shakespeare (0)
Show Business (28)
Single Life (13)
Sketches (41)
Slackers (94)
Slapstick (105)
Sports (55)
Stand-Up (31)
Teenagers (43)
Workplace (29)
Other (1,391).
If you don't see the sheer lunacy in this, I can say no more to make you see the light. Notice i'm not alone in mocking this change. the majority of movies are dumped into the Other category. Who has time to figure out if their movie belongs in Mind-Switch, or
Mistaken Identity?
And the other categories are equally messed up. And this isn't just a joke if you have a lot of auctions and use the bulk loader. The bulk loader causes plenty of work to relist normally because the auctions don't expire in the same order that you listed them in. Whit this new change for the worst in Movies, all the expired auctions caused an error when relisted, until you went and changed the old 5 digit category number to the new one.
posted on August 24, 2000 06:46:55 PM new
Actually, I wasnt the one who came up with the 10 cent theory. It is a fact that to validate a credit card costs a transaction fee and it is probably about 10 cents, but I dont think money is the reason Yahoo is the way it is. It costs nothing to validate an email id, and they wont do that either. Their spokesman on the Seller Zone (back when he took the time to post) kept stating that it takes money to make the changes we want and Yahoo is free. But they made a whole bunch of other changes, many of them stupid. If they didnt have money for changes that were requested, why did they have money for changes no one wanted?
No, I cant explain why Yahoo is so badly mismanaged. It's like multiple personalities. Every so often something comes out that makes sense (like featured auctions and Paydirect), followed by another change that makes no sense (like the ridiculous video categories, taking away the ability to block negative bidders). Maybe they just hired a bunch of programmers and told them to do whatever they wanted. Some of them were bribed by greedbay to make sure Y! doesnt succeed.
posted on August 24, 2000 07:22:31 PM new
Well, we all know there are many little changes that could be made with a little programming that they for some unknown reason, do not..like the veirfying the email addresses to see if they are valid. Tonight I had 2 winners whose notices bounced back USER UNKNOWN. But that granted, think about what they have done and there is a common thread: It all involves computer programming and it doesn't involve a staff of people.
It's as if the brass said: here are 5 programmers and unlimited computer space. Do what you want, but don't ask for personnel or money. Everything they've done, good or bad, seems to fit into this scenerio. Like Neighborhood Watch. They tried to do with the computer what 1 full time employee could do 100 times better, and it is a miserable failure....even dangerous to the seller whose auctions can be sabatoged with just 4 abused accounts, not 50.
Look at Pix hosting and hit counters. It is easy to do but takes computer power. Yahoo did it and even though some of my pix disappear from time to time, it's a lot more convenient than maintaining my own space on Geocities or using AuctionWatch (no offense, but I don't have time to list with AuctionWatch and I've tried). So they did something useful, but it too fits the mold: Computer automnated 100% with no people involved in running it.
