posted on September 2, 2000 03:17:48 AM"Each time a seller lists an item that does not sell, the number of auctions they can list in a month decreases by 1."
They can't POSSIBLY mean this the way it sounds!
If you list 250 auctions for 10 days and none sell (which can happen on Yahoo, even with good merchandise), your 1000 goes down to 500 (250 listings, 250 no-sales demerits)? Relist those 250 for another 10 days with no sales and you're at a big fat 0, with 10 or 11 days left in the month??? Getting 1 credit for each feedback number and 1 for each completed auction WON'T GO VERY FAR in bridging that gap, and 250 running auctions is probably LESS than most sellers keep open on Yahoo.
"Here's an example of how the Seller Performance Rewards program works:
Jill submits 100 auctions. Her auctions submission counter decreases by 100. 60 of Jill's auctions closes successfully. Her sell-through rate is now 60% (60 divided by 100). In additions, she received positive feedback ratings for most of her auctions.
As a result of selling a high percentage of the items she listed and receiving positive feedback ratings, Jill will see a substantial increase in her auctions submission counter. If her success continues, or improves, she will see the auctions submission counter continue to increase accordingly.
If Jill starts selling a lower percentage of her items, or gets negative feedback ratings, her number will begin to decrease."
I sure wish I had Jill's sales!!!
There are hardly even any sellers left on EBAY selling 60% the first time around, MUCH LESS ON YAHOO!!! Do you need a REALITY CHECK, Yahoo??????????
But just suppose Jill DOES sell 60 out of 100 auctions the first 10 days (must be those $10.00 computers everyone wants!). Just exactly how much DOES the 60% "sell-through" rate increase her listing limits? And how many of those buyers have to leave positive feedback to benefit her...and how much DO they benefit her in ACTUAL NUMBERS? And what if only 7 people buy all 60 items---does she get credit for 7 feedbacks or 60 feedbacks? And what about the 4-50 DEADBEATS who never pay her...if she cancels their bids and relists, does she LOSE CREDIT for the "sell-through" and does she get "charged" for relisting those auctions? And if Jill goes on vacation for a month, does her limit go back down to 1000? And how often is all this recalculated?
"This means that higher sell-through percentage and positive customer ratings can earn you an unlimited number of auction submissions."
Yahoo, that's a mighty big promise you're making, considering the listing limits sellers have been given for the month of September: 1000 + unique feedback.
So far, EVERYTHING you've said about how you're going to "calculate" each seller's limit has been 100% vague. How does a 60% "sell-through" rate EXPLAIN anything if you don't provide the MATH EQUATION you're using it in, or give numbers for the other variables you'll consider?????????????
posted on September 2, 2000 04:00:05 AMgranee said:
"And how many of those buyers have to leave positive feedback to benefit her...and how much DO they benefit her in ACTUAL NUMBERS? And what if only 7 people buy all 60 items---does she get credit for 7"
I had someone leave me 4 positive feedbacks for 4 different auctions yesterday. My limit was raised by 1
I'm also starting to think Yahoo is saying the words, "In a month" when they really mean, "In THAT month"
One last point, from the way I read it, you'll never go under 1000 at the begining of a month regardless of what negative feebacks you have. That can't be right can it?
---
Insert funny tagline here....
[ edited by dmercer on Sep 2, 2000 04:00 AM ]
posted on September 2, 2000 06:45:57 AM
OK, here's what gets me about the new explanations....it does not matter how many items you sell in a month...it depends completely on how much you sell in relation to how much you list! The reason most people list on Yahoo, from what I read on these threads, is because they can "list until it sells" and it eventually will. But the point is that very little sells on Yahoo without it being re-listed. It appears to me that the purpose of these new limits is not to hurt the spammers, but to hurt those who "list until it sells". It has been stated time and time again on these boards that selling on Yahoo is different from selling on other sites, but it seems that Yahoo does not understand this. If Yahoo runs off all of the sellers who use it because they can "list until it sells", what's going to be left on Yahoo?? They all but say in the new explanations that they suggest you only list it if there is a high liklihood that it's going to sell, as this is the only way you're going to be able to achieve "unlimited free listings". How many items do they think are likely to sell on Yahoo with only 1 listing??
It has also been said that these new limits are going to hurt the small sellers. I now have to disagree with this. The reason being, if I list 50 items a month and sell 25 I am a small seller. If you list 1800 items a month and sell 200, you're a big seller. Considering that these new limits are determined by a sales-to-listing ratio, rather than actual number of items sold...who does it look like Yahoo wants to benefit from these limits?
One final thought, can you imagine what Wal-Mart would be like if they consistently sold 60 percent of their inventory on the day they put it on the shelves??
posted on September 2, 2000 07:57:37 AM
OK Here is in reality how yahoos 1000 Item listings work .
on the day in August when they started this and set my counter to 1000 I had 106 listings bettween then and August 31 I sumbmited and resubmited 345 Items.
In that time I sold 4 Items I recieved 1 postive feed back no average or negtives on september 1 when my counter was reset I got the original 1000 listing and they incressed my count by 31 I now have 1031 lists I can make in september.
my percentage of sales was 3.5% one postive rateing I gain 31 listings. I didnt not get subracted none.
please take note I didnt receive the postive rateing till after the counter was already reset so they dont incress based on rateing .
they just incressed me just over 6 listings for every sale I had for about two weeks .
WWW.dman-n-company.com
posted on September 2, 2000 08:37:58 AM
Well is there anyone from Yahoo watching?
It seems you get 1 extra auction for your net feedback rating.
But does listing an auction that doesn't sell get you 1 or 2 fewer?
However, I suspect that they don't really want to give out the exact formula because then someone could figure out a way to manipulate the system.
Overall I think the system is a good idea. There is an awful lot of junk listed on Yahoo that doesn't sell. Hopefully this system will minimize that so that buyers will be able to find my items.
Its much better that starting to charge listing fee's. But I would guess that at some time in the future extra points will be avaiable for a price!
posted on September 2, 2000 09:05:29 AM
WEll to be honest with you , if it would be less worry to you that yahoo might start chargeing, for a flat fee of $29 a month you can have unlimited auction listings on yahoo with a store front and a yahoo merchant account for most credit cards
this would do away with the all the options you must offer for CC payments on auctions since they will receive email from yahoo at close for there win witha link to check out if they wish to pay buy master charge visa american exspress discover diners club and so on all you have to take care of is check money orders and cash payments.
$29 a month for all that ad you get listed as a yahoo store and merchant is no dout for many far cheaper then ebay fees
Is that really how it works? My understanding of Yahoo storefronts was that it was much more expensive than what you described and required an actual merchant account, with a base fee of $150 or so.
posted on September 2, 2000 12:18:39 PM
This news is getting worse and worse! If something doesn't sell it counts again out out of your 1000? Each feedback left for you should count. Not just from diferent buyers. It sure encourages repeat business! LOL Melanie
"If man were to be crossed with a cat, it would greatly improve the man, but deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
posted on September 2, 2000 03:22:25 PM
As I read about signing up for a yahoo merchant account for aution only use and to use there credit card payment system you pay them $29 a month you will receive a merchant logo on all your aution listing .
if you actually use the store front it self there may be adition fees but just to run auctions that all it is .
WWW.dman-n-company.com
posted on September 2, 2000 03:52:16 PM
"How much does my auctions submission counter decrease when I post an item that does not sell?
Answer: The auctions submission counter will decrease by 1 each time you post an auction that does not sell.
*********************************************
I know this is poorly worded by someone who is NOT thinking about making this FAQ easily understood. Obviously another high paid, possibly overpaid, to educated, individual.
But please note, it says, in the meat of this poorly worded answer, "- - - - counter will decrease by ONE each time you post an auction that does not sell". It does NOT state an 'additional point' will be lost. It is merely stating the loss of ONE for having posted the item in the first place, that's all.
It should have been stated as such: "When you list an item and it does not sell, you will lose one point for having listed the item." Period. The fact they mention this two different times, in this so-called helpful FAQ area, leads people to assume they are taking another deduction from your submission count. The above FAQ, at the top should have NEVER been entered in the FAQ section. It merely restates something that has ALREADY been covered, adding to the confusion.
Doesn't anyone on Yahoo! know how to put thing in simple terms? Or, are you all enjoying creating such mass confusion? Like I said when I was a member of the SZone, put the educated high paid drones in the back room and give them coffe and donuts. Let a normal, average person, answer questions without trying to impress everyone with their technical language abilities!
posted on September 2, 2000 04:04:31 PM
thanks for the english translation I have been trying to say in more then 5 threads on this board the past two week Mint4you
yahoo is not trying to really reduce any listings its more of a challange or contest to provide good Item and service on there service.
in an effort to reduce the make money surffing the web spam auction and the like clutering all there catagories.
if they limit listings sellers who waist listings trying to build down lines for alladvantage will think twice about the spam in all honesty a good seller can make 5 to 10 times the $30 they will get from these programs every 4 to 6 months.
posted on September 2, 2000 04:06:26 PM
"What they are trying to say is that if you list an item and it sells, it doesn't count against you, right?"
After studying the FAQ's, one could be led to think that...but then again it might not be correct when you consider that this program is not dependent on the number of items you sell, but rather the number of items you sell IN RELATION to the number of items you list. In other words, I don't think anyone, including the person that came up with this brilliant idea, have figured that out yet.
[ edited by auctionee on Sep 2, 2000 04:07 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2000 04:19:36 PM
amalgamated2000,
That is my understanding. After all, you are considerated a 'good' seller. Your 'reward' comes if you get a positive. Then you gain one above where you started, BEFORE listing the item.
I know some are having problems seeing this on their allotments, likely because of a glitch affecting some, not most. I have had a few positives posted since this started, on items I sold BEFORE this went into effect. And I gained one for each positive, as I feel you should. Why should you not get credit for being a good seller, no matter when it started? Isn't that the purpose in the first place of this "reward" program?
Another thing while I'm typing. WHY shouldn't a seller get a point for EACH positive, REGARDLESS if it is a repeat customer???? After all, isn't having repeat customers the best example 'good' sellers can have???? They don't come back to buy more if your not giving them quality products and excellent service.
Come on Yahoo!, wake up!!! I'm not asking, like others, to increase the feedback rating, (altough I believe that should happen also, a sale is a sale, regardless). At the minimum, give a person some 'reward' for having so many satisified repeat customers. You want the buyers to be happy, are they not, when buying again and again, from the same seller?? OF COURSE THEY ARE!!!
posted on September 3, 2000 02:31:28 AMdman3, a Yahoo store costs $100 month to list 50 items, $300 for 1000 items. All you're getting for your $29 month is a merchant credit card account that you could get for FREE with Yahoo! PayDirect. You didn't get 6 listings credit for every sale you had, you got 26 for your feedback and one for each new sale.
OK, let's assume the only way feedback will play into the sell-through formula (if, indeed, there actually IS such a thing, or WILL BE such a thing when Yahoo Auction powers-to-be get through playing with all this) is to INCREASE or DECREASE your listing limit by one, every time you get another positive or negative rating from a FIRST-TIME customer (since Yahoo has already made it clear that repeat-customer feedbacks won't be counted again--I got a repeat pos today, and it didn't increase my listing limit).
Then let's assume that every listing closing with a winning bidder will INCREASE your listing limit by ONE (in reality, just GETTING BACK the one you used to LIST it with in the first place...providing it sold the first go-round).
Also assume that you won't be PENALIZED one extra listing for each auction that fails to sell.
Now let's assume that an auction winner you CANCEL for NONPAYMENT won't count against you, and you'll get to KEEP the listing you gained by having a "successful" auction. Will the relist to try to sell it again be deducted as one relisting?
And let's assume that a seller starts each new month with a MINIMUM BASE LIMIT of 1000 auctions plus his CURRENT FEEDBACK RATING (since that's the formula used for September) plus an "undetermined" number of listings arrived at by calculating his "sell-through" rate (which on Yahoo I'd guess is usually about 4-10% right now. Just what percentage of auctions have to sell to earn the unlimited number of auction submissions you mentioned??????
"Every time your sell-through and your rating changes, the number of auctions you can submit is recalculated, so it is in your best interest to continue to increase your sell-through percentage and rating."
"Your sell-through percentage is calculated by dividing the number of auctions you list into the number of auctions you sell over a 12 week period. The more you sell relative to what you list, the higher your sell-through."
When does this 12 week period start? September 1st or 12 weeks ago?
Is the sell-through rate recalculated daily or weekly or monthly or every 12 weeks?
If a seller doesn't list for awhile, does he LOSE his sell-through rate and start over with a limit of 1000 + feedback?
If you're really trying to get rid of spammers, why let them have 1000 listings? Why not reduce their limit PERMANENTLY for every duplicate they list?
Why not give "credit" for feedback from legitimate repeat customers?
Why not give listing "credit" to those who REPORT spam and terms violations, if you REALLY want to clean up Yahoo?
posted on September 3, 2000 06:20:47 AM
"Why not give listing "credit" to those who REPORT spam and terms violations, if you REALLY want to clean up Yahoo?"
Great idea Granee! If they would do this, I would have my unlimited free listings by now, as I filled up Yahoo's mailbox last night with spam reports. It'll be interesting to see how many spammers I can find at the end of the month as the new limits sure aren't slowing them down yet. But what really irked me was that probably 60 percent of those I reported last night were "new". Wonder how many of those were actually new users....
posted on September 3, 2000 08:34:39 AM
WELL, if I could post unlimited ads, and not be bothered trying to figure out this ridiculous formula, and could do it for $29.95 a month, I'd sign up today!
posted on September 3, 2000 09:24:36 AM
I just read everything I could find on Store Fronts, Merchant Auctions, etc., and as I read it you HAVE to have a Merchant Store Front First. I found NOTHING relating to the $29.95 amount. If there is such, someone please let me know what the URL is, as I can't locate anything about this.
I "might" even be tempted to go with the Merchant Account & the link to auctions at $100, if I were not then going to have to apparently kick back a given percentage amount to Yahoo. In Fact I don't see how this would work (the % part) with regards to the dead beats.
I am not sure I totally understand how this works, but I'd rather pay something that have to try to figure out this stupid formula, AND have the hassel of trying to keep within listing bounds, particularly as we head for the Christmas season.
I checked out Yahoo's Bulk Loader again, and realize I can post one by one faster than messing with this program.
posted on September 3, 2000 09:35:06 AM
I TOTALLY AGREE, Yahoo doesn't seem to understand that YAHOO is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from all other on line auctions, that it is unusual for an item to sell first time out, and has to be relisted at least once or twice - this is something I have commented regarding on the eBay Board, that you have to develop a "Yahoo Attitude," and realize your item may not sell the first time, but eventually, it will sell. When eBay users come to Yahoo for the first time with the eBay Attitude, they easily get discouraged, as there is no comparison between eBay and Yahoo, the two auctions simply do not work in any similar type of fashion.
I seldom if ever relist on eBay - on Yahoo I have to or much would never sell. You have to relist on Yahoo to be able to sell.
NOW, with this ridiculous formula, I have had to allow all of my auctions to run out over this weekend (since for us holiday weekends are not good selling weekends) and I don't want to waste my relistings during this time, so now I will have to spend a whole day relisting, because after 4 days, so many of my auctions closed, now they are piling up and will have to be relisted.
posted on September 3, 2000 05:06:16 PM
Mostly because they are not following a true Auction format!
Auctions are for competitive bidding!
Listing one item for over a year with automatic relists at an exuberent price and waiting for someone to find it and pay it is not an auction!
This stuff belongs in a classified or STORE FRONT!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) They follow the format bidders want to follow. Most bidders want to know what you want for it today. Thay are not interested in the "auction format". They don't have, or want to waste, the time. If you don't give them what they want to know, they will go elsewhere. It's called 'following the market trends'.
2) Not all listings are for "exuberent price". Even if that were true of some, what makes you think you can make that decission? Does someone tell you what to ask for your items? If someone is looking for it and is willing to pay that price, it must be worth it to them.
3) It doesn't belong in a classified, if the trend, as it is today, is to sell by this method. This is especially true on Yahoo! auctions. If you do not follow what works, and what the bidders want, you will not sell. It's that simple. No selling trend is permanent, in any market. You either have to bend, or fold. The very vast majority are no longer true auctions, just look through the listings. 'True auctions' are in the small minority.
I am online as a buyer, not a seller, and I liked Yahoo auctions the way they were. Yes, there is alot of stale stuff on Yahoo,
but the same can be said for ebay and everyone else.
I find alot of bargains on Yahoo - stuff people might not even bother to list on ebay because they need to manage their fees and can't afford to take a chance on everything.
Sellers are going to pass each and every increase in the cost of doing business onto us - that's the only way they can stay in business, when they cease to make a profit online, the auctions will stop.
I think we need to withold judgement on the changes until we see if there really is any benefit, like decreased spam. Alot of the things that appear to be good for buyers, or sellers, actually end
up benefiting no one in particular over the long haul.
posted on September 3, 2000 06:49:31 PM
"Lowerung prices to attract bidders is just what happens at live auctions as you stated!"
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I didn'e make any such comment about "live" auctions. "live" auctions are not part of the Interenet auction scene. I didn't make any comment about "Lowerung prices - -" either. Next time read carefully before crediting with me comments I did not make. Please don't ever say "as you stated" again, unless it is a fact.
selling by relisting, is working, a lot of sellers are doing it. And very well I might add. As long as they observe the TOS, what's wrong with that?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Bidding competition still goes on on E-Bay! How come very rare on Yahoo?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In case you haven't realized it yet, Yahoo! is not like greedbay. Sellers, as I stated before, will go with what the Yahoo! bidders want. What works at greedbay, does not mean, it will work on Yahoo! Because one charges, (a LOT), and the other is free. Certainly there are different marketing stratagies involved.
I based my comments on your complaints about seller techniques, (relisting), on Yahoo! What happens on greedbay has absolutely nothing to do with Yahoo! selling techniques, or strategies. They are black and white, in comparison to each other. The way I see it, personally, if a seller is staying within Yahoo! TOS guidelines, how they run their auctions is totally up to them. It's a persons right to set their own techniques for selling, again, within the TOS set forth. No one, you or I, has the right to get upset with that. It is their business, and only theirs.
Except my apologies and typo! Submitted to the wrong thread!
There is a difference between bidders and buyers!
In some categories I can understand the automatic resubmissions over time!
I am hoping myself to start an on line store where I can place my Items at fixed prices!
One problem there is most of the TOS agreements including Yahoo do not allow links for sales of the same items you have up for Auction!
Another Tos violation is listing the same item more then once in the same or differant categories unless the item is not identical in which case it is supposed to be sold at Dutch Auction!
This is the type relisting I am talking about! Duplicates of the same item!
Could anyone direct me to the links for Yahoo where it states that two User IDs are legitimate? I would like to set up a second, but would like to see it in the Tos before I do!
I do not want to be shut down for being in violation of TOS!
All I seem to come up with tonight is the GENERAL Yahoo TOS and not the one for the Auction site!
I know differant threads have stated it is a violation of TOS!
posted on September 5, 2000 10:49:49 AM
In the Auctions guidelines it does not say that you cannot have multiple accounts. I do know that you must use different CC numbers, If you have two accounts on the same cc number it will only allow you to list on the original account.
posted on September 5, 2000 12:25:00 PM
warr- regarding this idea of a bidding war on ebay, *most* items on ebay end with either 1 or NONE bids.
When you have an item that you are confident will bring multiple bids on ebay, you should list it there.
I have said this until I am BLUE, and I should really have saved and just cut and paste by now - but....
For most things under the sun - AUCTION is NOT the best way to sell them. Believe me, if it were - you would go to Target, place your bid on the DVD player you want and come back in 3 days and see if you bought it.
Auction is for the authentically rare.
If you can find 3 or 4 of them in the Ebay solds - well it ain't rare, and a fair price can be determined. Yes, you may get lucky and have a newbie bid your thing up too high. You may also have an experienced bidder steal it with a snipe.
OTOH, with Yahoo (and 1 bid buys) you are using more traditional ways of moving goods. In the case of 1 bid buys - you get the impulse buyer, and baby these people spend plenty. Besides this, you use loss leaders, or highly desirable tasty items to get people to view your other offerings and it works. You put your entire inventory online "in the window" and you wait for your buyer. You do not expect to sell all of your inventory in 7 days, or even 1/2 of your inventory for that matter, but it all sells.
It works for Target, it works for Dillards, it works for Saks, it works for your local grocery and it works for me.
My point here is that AUCTION for common things is over. That ship has sailed, and my next point is that most everything is common. If your thing is not, go to ebay. That leaves 90% to be sold for 1 bid whether intended or otherwise.
