posted on October 11, 2000 03:06:23 PM new
Thank Goodness there are others being targeted by the YahooNazi Possee! Sorry, I just mean I feel a little better knowing I'm not the only one!!
I just took a shot at finding some info here about the NW at Yahoo since I received some alerts this a.m.telling me I have 3 NW on ALL my auctions. They are all being accused of being Spam.I am so very new to auctions (started 8-21)and list pretty much the same in the different venues. I am aware of "bulk listing" and have seen , say, in jewelry, sometimes dozens and dozens of the identical item listed separately. I also get messages from Yahoo telling me I have room for something like 907 more auctions (since they put limits on them)So... I entered my items over and over again, selecting different categories so they weren't all bunched up in one. NOWHERE do I see any actual number amount limit for an identical item!! In fact, one of the FAQ's is "how many auctions can I submit?" to which they respond "up to 1000 a month" and then they spend a page and a half explainig how the amount can increase etc.. Never is there a whisper of limit on identical auctions.
I read thru the TOS and there is nothing in detail there about them either, except that there is a no Spam rule, but there is no definition of what THEY call Spam or still no mention of exact amounts allowed!I put "spam" into their "Search" and got the TOS again!! And the amount of NW is exactly the same in each listing for me and all on the same day.
So I thought, how would these 3 people (or more) even KNOW each other? How would they organize like this? Maybe there's a chat room and I can find out who they are, etc., but there isn't even a Community at Yahoo where you can get things off your chest like that!! Or learn things like in other auction communities!! So how is this obnoxious "Possee" organizing without a Message Board or Community or something??
How does Yahoo know these have any merit? They just take them at their word? What if they are in direct competition to me and want me off for that reason?
I completely understand the need for having rules, but where are they? I also would've appreciated someone just contacting me and explaining them rather than emailing me over and over like I'm some sort of fuguitive from their laws. I have no problem with removing the auctions, it's this "possee" that pisses me off and the excessive, heavy handed method of dealing with offenders. Anyone else having this problem? Bif
posted on October 11, 2000 04:46:26 PM new
Part of the problem with Yahoo's TOS is that it covers the entire Yahoo community. As far as I'm aware, there is not a TOS specifically for auctions. However the form of spam that is usually violated is posted in red at the bottom of the page every time you list an item - "Please post only one listing in only one category for a given item." In other words, you can have NO duplicate auctions and be within the rules.
As far as the warnings go, that is all they are. When you have 3 complaints on an auction, a warning is automatically generated to let you know that people are complaining...giving you the opportunity to correct any violations. If you are not in violation, then you have nothing to worry about. When a 4th complaint is submitted, that auction is sent to Cusomer Care for review. At that time, a real (we believe) person will look at your auctions and determine if there are violations or not. If there are no violations, you will never hear from them. If Customer Care determines there are violations, the next e-mail you get will be "Your auctions have been closed", wether or not they have bids. If you have any identical items listed at the same time, you are in violation.
posted on October 11, 2000 05:40:55 PM new
Biffette..I had the same thing happen to me a couple of days ago. I started out getting warnings from Yahoo because I had my items in the wrong category. (by the way, there was no right category to put them in)It's a long story I won't go into. I was a nervous wreck before my auctions ended. I kept thinking, anytime Yahoo is going to close them down, and I had GREAT bids on everyone of them. One of my auctions had (9) so called violations on it, but it wasn't closed down. None of them were, thank gawd! Only thing I can say to this "posse", is Yahooooo your dirty little tricks didn't work! Biffette, hang in there and good luck on your auctions!
posted on October 11, 2000 06:46:16 PM new
yahoo! auctions TOS requests that you not submit any multiple listings for identical items. To do so is considered spam.
posted on October 11, 2000 07:07:49 PM new
Biffette
You don't know who NWed your auctions, NO one does. If you listed the same items many times, no matter where you put them, you ARE in violation of the TOS!
It amazes me, all of the people blaming this Posse all of the time, and many times when they ARE in violation of one of Yahoo!s TOS. Hurting ALL of us who follow the TOS.
Before you cry "Wolf", check your own back yard. This Posse does a lot of good for all of us sellers. Why not give them a break! And learn what YOU are doing wrong first.
NW submissions will NOT affect you at all if you are NOT in violation. I have gotten NWed on some of my auctions. I KNEW they were not in violation. I contacted Yahoo! and they said "If you feel you are not in violation, you need not close your auction", I didn't and everything was fine anyway. A REAL person does make the final decision of the 4th NW posted. If they find noting wrong, NOTHING happens, period.
Did you ever think that it may be a dissatisfied customer, or a REAL competitor? Or a prnkster? The Posse is NOT a competitor, that would be rediculous. Yahoo! knows who is making the NW's, if they were continually doing something wrong they would be dealt with.
Everyone wants a better site, free of multiple listings, and the NW is there for everyone, and yet, most are to lazy to use it. So these people make good use of it, for ALL of us, what's wrong with that? Do you want pornography were children can view it? Do you want used panties for sale? Do you want human body parts up for auction? Of course NOT. Please appreciate that there is someone who stops this, and spends many hours doing so, for NO pay I might add.
Where is YOUR proof this Posse is hitting your auctions?? You, of course have none. Your auctions were NOT closed, as you said, so what makes you think this Posse did it?
They are a group of very experianced sellers of many years. They will NOT waste their time NWing auctions that are NOT in violation. Why would they waste their time doing that??
Think twice about what you say, when you don't know what this group is REALLY doing. They do us all a real service. Would you spend hours trying to help clean up all of the spam, and adult videos out of category on Yahoo!? No, you just want to complain about someone else who IS doing something about it. Before you accuse, learn something about what the truth REALLY is. So we can all benefit from this group, and not have them quit because of accusations that do not apply to them. I am VERY greatful for what they do. I have Grandkids, and one saw an adult video on the Home page of Yahoo! once, that hardly happens anymore because of those who get involved to stop it. YOU can help too, NW when you see such things happening. That's why Yahoo! put it there, for us ALL to use. The LEAST you can do, is not complain about those who do get involved.
posted on October 11, 2000 07:53:18 PM new
Hey CharlieOne - Hostile Much??? Time for your medication, god, calm
down,it's only an auction!!! If you had carefully read my message, I was extremely intent on searching my own "backyard", but found
nothing to help me, not in their FAQ's, not in the "Search", not in the TOS,
not in the Seller's Guide. Apparently it's in there somewhere, but obviously
not where it needs to be if it can't even be found when spending an hour
looking for it!!!
AND, I agreed that I may indeed BE in violation, and I believe in the
necessity of rules, I just expressed frustration in not being able to find
them and not having it made clear in the beginning.!!!
So relax man!! Aren't we all supposed to be here to learn, (sometimes from
our mistakes) without being scolded, preached to or incurring someone's
wrath? Peace
posted on October 11, 2000 08:00:04 PM new
Biffette
If you had relatives that were gassed by the Nazi's, you wouldn't be so quick to use that word when you get p----- off. Think, before you speak, PLEASE. You ARE the one that needs to think before you accuse, and use such descriptive language. GROW UP.
posted on October 11, 2000 08:38:35 PM new
CharlieOne: You poor thing!! The ulcers and hypertension you must have! Is this what you do when somebody stands up to your knee jerk reactions???There, there, everything will be better in the morning. Might want to give some thought to some Anger Management Classes. Now you go and get your sweet self some sleep, Okee dokee? And, remember that medication!-----
posted on October 11, 2000 08:55:35 PM new
Your either very young, very immature, or both. You obviously have no respect for what elder generations of this world went through.
Instead, when you can't find the info you seek, you start calling names of past muderous dictators. You are one sorry individual. I hope you not bare children, and raise them to be as insensitive as you are.
I'm surprised you didn't use that very worn out, immature expression 'Get a life'. That's usually what most people of your immaturity say, when they can not respond intelligently. I fear for the world my Grandchild is going to grow up in. So many losers with no logic, or rational whatsoever.
posted on October 11, 2000 09:31:03 PM new
Biffette,
On my initial reading of this thread, I did not notice your reference to the "YahooNazi Possee." To refer to any group as Nazis is not acceptable in this forum. Please do not use that term or similar terms in the future.
posted on October 11, 2000 09:43:01 PM new
pattaylor
I apologize to you, as a moderator. However, I do not understand why this other individual did not get a similar warning? She/He has shown no respect for others calling them such a name.
I had relatives of mine die under that dictatorship. I believe the sentence containing that word should be removed out of respect to those who died a such horrible deaths.
posted on October 12, 2000 12:19:19 AM new
Biffette,
CharlieOne was offended by your use of the term "Nazi". Having had an Uncle who married a very sweet Polish lady who had been subjected to a variety of indignities at the hands of this regime, I agree with him. A more generic, less inflammatory term would have been a better choice for use in this forum. You do seem young, so perhaps you don't understand how truly offensive this term is to others.
If you have 3 NW's on all of your auctions, and you haven't received prior NW's, then it is highly unlikely that the Posse placed them. In the case of spam, the Posse generally picks a smaller representative sampling in the case of non repeat offenders, in order to give the seller a chance to correct the violations. The Neighborhood Watch feature can be used by anyone with a +1 feedback rating; that is the only requirement for its use.
The statement that spam is not permitted is in the auctions TOS, however, the actual definition of spam is found in "Bulk Loader Spam Policy". (The bulk loader, as you'll see stated, is to be used to list many auctions quickly and efficiently, not multiples of the same item many times). But, as someone else pointed out, it is in red type every time you submit an auction as well, so it shouldn't have taken you an hour to find. The limit is only one of each item; no matter how many categories it may actually be appropriately placed in, the seller must choose only one, and relist in a different one if the item doesn't sell if he chooses so to do.
The three people who NW need not "know each other", nor be organized in any way. They could be three separate browsers on three separate days, or three of a seller's competitors. The three NW's can accrue at any time during the course of the run of the auctions; they needn't all be done at once. All auctions that receive four or more NW's are reviewed by Yahoo, and a determination is then made. If you'll note, the NW itself says "looks like spam" and "think it belongs in a different category", not "is" or "does"; that's up to Yahoo customer care to determine. You are given the opportunity to close any auctions in violation of your own accord, so that you may retain any bidders that you have.
The Posse is now "blamed for"/credited with every NW placed on every Yahoo auction. This is just simply not the case. Logistically and numerically, this would be an impossibility. GEM
P.S. bopkh, if there "is no right category" to put a specific auction item in, could you please post an example (not necessarily one of your own auction items) here? Thank you, GEM
posted on October 12, 2000 12:24:58 AM new
To Biffette and all the rest of you SPAMMERS:
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!! You said, "...but found nothing to help me,...not in the Seller's Guide. Never is there a whisper of limit on identical auctions."
OH, REALLY??? It took me all of 30 seconds to find the two rules below, yet you, "extremely intent" on finding the rules, searched in vain for an hour and found nothing?????????
From Yahoo "Submitting an Item" page (which you have to read if you submit listings manually): "Please post only one listing in only one category for a given item."
From Yahoo "Bulk Loader Spam Policy"(which you have to read before getting the bulk loader to submit listings): "The Auctions Express Bulk Loader is a tool designed to make it easier to post multiple auctions. It should not be used to post the same item throughout Yahoo! Auctions, even if that item pertains to more than one category. Multiple listings of the same item (also known as "spam" are not allowed in Yahoo! Auctions. Yahoo! defines spam as "more than one listing of the same item by the same seller," so please choose only one category per item. Items listed in categories to which they don't pertain are also considered spam.
Auctions with the same or very similar titles could potentially be perceived as spam. Please be sure that users can differentiate between your auctions by their titles.
Aside from decreasing your chances of completing sales (buyers have told us they do not trust multiple listings of the same product), Yahoo! maintains a zero-tolerance policy on spam and may take action to cancel auctions and/or Yahoo! accounts of users that we believe are misusing the service.
It's probably not the POSSE who reported your auctions as SPAM, because they would have gone straight to Yahoo with the violation, and Yahoo would have terminated all your listings. So count yourself LUCKY instead of coming here and ranting about being "pissed off" by the "YahooNazi Possee".
You seem to have "selective reading disability". I guess you were just too busy trying to *use up* all those 1000 listings Yahoo gave you this month to bother reading the rules that were right in front of your face.
bopkh, 9 people wouldn't have bothered to Neighborhood Watch your auction had it not been a CLEAR VIOLATION of Yahoo's rules, and I personally think it's a shame Yahoo didn't check to see if it should be closed down. What you call "dirty little tricks" that "didn't work" by the "posse" was probably an honest attempt by others to clear Yahoo of violating auctions.
Biffette, don't come here playing "innocent" and slinging your ignorant insults at people you know nothing about (both here and in the posse). CharlieOne is right in everything he said, and if you had any maturity and respect for others instead of a rude, flippant, condescending, "in-your-face" attitude so prevalent in teenagers who learn their "etiquette" watching television sit-coms, you'd have the good sense to apologize to him.
Because you OWE him an apology.
[ edited by granee on Oct 13, 2000 12:28 AM ]
posted on October 12, 2000 02:22:43 AM new
Online auctions have to get rid of any and all spammers! They smell up a site.
There are to many 16 year olds offering items and there are to many 22 year olds who act like 16 year olds.
Auctions are not supposed to be a video game.
I would have zero tolerance for any spammer, caught once and you are outta here-there for ever. No childish excuses either.
posted on October 12, 2000 05:52:16 AM new
Well, I don't think I said anything wrong. I was just venting about this "posse". I see you guys/gals have high regards for them. I apologize. I'll try not to complain anymore.
Now, can someone help me with this Yahoo PayDirect. I don't have any auctions going at the time, but I am going to take off my PayPal logos, and put Yahoo PayDirect logos on them, but when I do a test page, just a little blue dot comes up. Thank you in advance.
posted on October 12, 2000 08:00:20 AM new
AW - before you start deleting posts with the word "Nazi", please tell me who that guy is that keeps appearing in your advertisement about "Not Crazy About Your Boss". Seems to me I have seen his face before ....
posted on October 12, 2000 09:13:09 AM new
I do some listing on Yahoo and have tried to keep aware of their policies. On reading this thread's start I went "to the top of the list" at Yahoo Auctions like a beginning lister would and started searching for their "spam" (not a very good choice of terms, imo) policy... I knew I'd seen it quoted, and knew it at least had been that listing more than one identical item other than as a Dutch auction was forbidden. Even KNOWING it was there (unless there'd been a policy change), I couldn't find any helpful statements in what I thought were the obvious areas like the FAQ lists. In fact, I started wondering if they'd changed it overnight on us.
But, yes, it's all there in the text involving the bulk lister usage. Hell of an obscure place to stick a fairly important policy statement, I'd say. That stuff needs to be in a more obvious place. Then, after Yahoo employees make it so new listers can understand the rules, they need truly to enforce their rules so everyone's on a level playing field. It looks to me that Yahoo tends to wink at "professional scofflaws" who stick multiple off-topic listings (by multiple I mean like the yo-yo who lists "2 airline tickets to anywhere for $40" some 300+ times in 300 off-topic categories) in *featured* areas. Yahoo as a company is hurting for revenues, ya know? (Just look at its stock price... yechhhh) So, I suppose that $30 a day (10c/listing times 300) buys them off from enforcing clear violations.
I've seen comments from Toyranch, I think, that perhaps 2 or 3 identical listings should be allowed for items that fit in more than one category. Probably a good idea, probably cracks the door for more excuses for abusive multiple-listings, though, UNLESS Yahoo can get its act together and assign an internal employee or two to do a constant slash & burn on the professional abusers.
In addition, I think Yahoo needs to do something to facilitate communication with its auction function users. They should assign somebody to monitor these boards (LOT of free advice here that's worth more than it costs...) and in the ideal case interact like PPD does at his best... or at least open a Q&A interactive board on their Auctions main page to discuss policies rather than just hand policy down from "on high." Maybe they just can't afford it and stay free?
posted on October 12, 2000 02:31:07 PM new
comic123
I defend anyone who is called names in here, especially that kind of name. It is not called for. Just because someone has difficulties they resort to name calling? My family experianced much pain under the Nazi's, would you have me not feel for them?
You are just trying to discredit a group whom you do not know. Maybe you have been in violation, and NWed before. That is usually the case when people complain. Most of the time it is not related to them, (many "experianced" sellers violate the TOS). People think this group can be everywhere at once, like a ghost. Yahoo! is very large, so you do give them credit in a way.
posted on October 12, 2000 04:53:22 PM new
I have a question about spam. Say for instance, I have (2) of the exact same items, except one is in mint condition, but the other one is just in good condition. Can I list them the same day separately? Also, if I have (2) of the exact same items, but I list one by itself, and the other one
with another different item, can I do that?
Here is the way I understand it to be. On listing the two items that are the same, except, they are very different in condition. Just like coins are different condition. This should be acceptable. As long as they are stated, as to condition, to differentiate the two from each other. It helps too, that one is cheaper than the other to substantiate the difference.
About listing two like identical like items. One being grouped in a pair with a different item. And one sold separately. That is perfectly acceptable.
posted on October 13, 2000 12:35:17 AM newcomic123, in response to your statement, "I can assume that those 2 members defending the Possee actions are part of that click," I have absolutely no idea WHO is in the posse, nor am I a part of any "click". But it's ABSURD to blame (or credit, for that matter) every Neighborhood Watch action taken on Yahoo to a small group of people. Many sellers (and buyers, too, I suppose) report terms violations to Yahoo when they come across them, and Yahoo personnel are the only ones who know which users are reporting the violations.
posted on October 13, 2000 02:52:49 AM new
I think the posse is just great. I personally am too busy to "police" Yahoo the way they do and I wouldn't do that even if I weren't too busy- it's not my style. Well, I HAVE NW'ed auctions before. Once when I was shopping for Barbies, I came across an entire page of auctions for NON-Barbie stuff, all by the same seller & deliberately miscategorized. Boy was I peeved! I'm pretty easygoing but I don't appreciate having my time wasted! Browsing auctions takes long enough as it is. I think sellers owe their buyers a little consideration. It takes something pretty inconsiderate to get me to NW an auction. I won't go out of my way to do it. If other people want to go out of their way to do so, more power to them. It helps me in the long run as both a buyer & a seller. I mean I don't think it's OK if competing sellers are just zapping auctions to be mean, but from what I've heard of the posse, they sound pretty cool. Please don't assume that everything that gets "NW'ed" is something to blame the posse for- that is NOT the case!
Bifette, if I had come across your items when shopping I might have NW'ed them. I wouldn't have done it to be mean, I would have done it out of sheer frustration. Think about it like this: I browse by photos. I have a slow modem. I would have been very frustrated waiting for an entire page (or 2 pages or whatever) of your identical items to load- even if I were interested in purchasing one of them. Do you get what I mean? I am sure that you didn't mean to be inconsiderate when you posted your auctions- you just want to sell your stuff, which we all can understand. You just have to shift your thinking a little & look at things from the buyer's point of view. The free gallery is one of Yahoo's best features, and Yahoos use it heavily. I think that is the reason Yahoo's spam policy is what it is. I as a Yahoo customer really appreciate the policy as it is.
posted on October 13, 2000 09:29:00 AM new
I think everyone's getting excited over nothing. As a seller who had every one of his auctions NW'd about an hour before they closed for about a month, I posted a message on a Yahoo seller board ASKING (not accusing) the posse if they were responsible. I got two polite emails plus a response to my post explaining that the posse emails a seller first, if their email id is available, to explain the problem before NWing if it is not a blatant violation (like those clowns who list the same item 50 times). It turned out that my auctions were being NWd by a yahoo clown. You know the type. The kids who want to hurt total strangers but are too stupid to write a virus so they go to yahoo and bid on auctions in order to deadbeat or leave bad feedback for "fun." Now that Yahoo requires credit cards for bidding, they have to switch to something else so they NW auctions because they can do this annonymously.
What I did was email Yahoo every single time an auction of mine was NWd asking them to explain the violation. Eventually, Yahoo must have figured out who was doing it and warned them because it stopped.
To recap: unless you are spamming, your auctions were probably NWd by a joker and not the posse. If it was incorrectly NWd, nothing will happen. It wont be shut down. It will be a little harder to resubmit, but that's all. If it bothers you, do what I did. http://www.ygoodman.com [email protected]
posted on October 13, 2000 11:32:29 AM newcomic123,
We have had to delete one of your posts as it contained the full name of a private individual. We recommend that you review our User Agreement again in order to avoid jeopardizing your posting privileges.
are not allowed in Yahoo! Auctions. Yahoo! defines spam as "more than one listing of the same item by the same seller," so please choose only one category per item. Items listed in categories to which they don't pertain are also considered spam.