posted on October 28, 2000 10:03:25 AM new
Got my first bad feedback today for 'deadbeating' on an auction. I posted a bid cancel using Yahoo's dumb rules, the seller never saw my request to cancel, and, well, you know the rest.
What an idiotic way for buyers and sellers to have to communciate with each other ... bye bye Yahoo
posted on October 28, 2000 10:27:09 AM new
I have to agree with you! When I first started out I got that Yahoo! generated email "you've been asked a question...." in which a bidder wanted me to cancel their bid! I thought to myself "CANCEL IT YOURSELF!!!" Of couse, I since have learned why I was asked to do that!
My other "problem" with the Yahoo! way is not being able to pull contact info if needed and yes their has been times I really needed it. Like now...I have an item paid for with NO address to send it to! Have not been able to make contact by email. Have left "comments" on the closed auction page AND in the buyers FB file asking for them to PLEASE contact me because I needed their address to ship and have received nothing. We are going on over a month now. I can't believe this person has not wondered where their package is!!! I can see a big fat NEG in the wings on this one....
posted on October 28, 2000 12:40:24 PM new
Bids are not supposed to be canceled in the first place. Make sure you want the item, before you place a bid. Yahoo! use to give administrative negatives for canceling a bid. They still should. Bidding is supposed to be thought out in advance, not after the fact.
posted on October 28, 2000 01:37:01 PM newCharlieOne- Yes, that is suppose to be the way it works, but unfortunately it doesn't. I would rather have a bidder cancel a bid (and I would like THEM to be able to do it directly & not rely on a system that forces me to do it for them)than end up with a "winner" who does not pay! There is no way to force a winner to pay.
Some states (mine does) have laws that allow any person to back out of a deal within 3 days. It's a cool off period and is really designed to help people with telemarkerters, door to door sales people,ect. who are very good at talking people into buying something they don't really need. However, it can be used to get out of just about ANY deal.
In the "real world" there is no such thing as iron clad unbreakable contracts...they happen everyday! I'm not trying to be rude or pick a fight, just stating my observations on life and I've been observing a l-o-n-g time.
posted on October 28, 2000 03:26:37 PM new
I'm not picking a fight either. It's just this attitude that 'I can cancel my bid' is not acceptable on any site. Also, the attitude that if I find it cheaper somewhere else, I should be able to just walk away from my obligation is also wrong. If you are an adult, (should be over 18 to bid), you need to act like one, and be responsible for your bids. Some even win two auctions, and take the cheapest win, and walk away from the other one. Somehow they are now trying to make rationalize that too? Here is Yahoo!s guidelines:
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Can I cancel my bid?
After you place a bid on the auction item page, you will be taken to a "Preview Bid" page. You may cancel your bid while on this preview page. Simply click on the "Cancel" button, and the bid will not be placed.
You cannot cancel your bid after you have confirmed it (i.e., after you have clicked on "Place this Bid". Please do not bid on an item if you are uncertain that you can pay for it.
In case of emergency, you may ask the seller to cancel your bid by posting a question in the "Question & Answer" section on the auction item page.
Please note: It is at the seller's discretion whether or not to cancel your bid.
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This is how it is set up. It is not the bidders option to walk away from a bid. Whatever happened to deciding before bidding? Just because some sellers allow it to happen, doesn't mean it is the 'new' thing to do, and it does not void the auction terms. We all click on "I accept" when we register at all auctions sites. To not honor your word, is to be irresponsible. And some sellers help irresponsible bidders to get this way.
posted on October 28, 2000 05:57:39 PM new
CharlieOne --- things sometime happen that don't have anything to do with changing one's mind or finding a better deal somewhere else. You, sir, have a lot of living yet to do if you haven't figured this out yet
I am addressing the issue, not the person. I refer back to the above:
"Please do not bid on an item if you are uncertain that you can pay for it."
If a person is not sure they can carry out the purchase. They shouldn't be placing bids in the first place. They should be saving their money, not shopping on the Internet.
posted on October 29, 2000 06:47:04 AM new
The 'issue' is the method Yahoo chooses to allow a bidder to cancel a bid, not the reasons why a bidder may want to cancel, or how terrible it is if someone does it ...
You have missed my 2nd point too - there may be reasons, other than money related, which force a bidder to cancel.
posted on October 29, 2000 07:32:02 AM new
The key phrase just might be "It is at the seller's discretion whether or not to cancel your bid."
Had an auction for an LP album, bidder placed bid, then rechecked the item and realized he'd made an error, he was looking for the same title in CD. E-mailed me and I cancelled his bid. No problem for me to extend the courtesy.
There are situations that arise in which sellers have the opportunity to provide "public relations".
posted on October 29, 2000 07:37:48 AM new
So, what happens in a case like mine where the seller didn't check her email or her listings for several days, and didn't see my request for her to cancel my bid before the auction closed?
And, what happens if a seller refuses to cancel a bid? Seems to me this would only result in negative feedback and bad feelings - certainly something Yahoo cannot afford if they want to cash in on eBay's current problems.
In my mind, the Yahoo setup for canceling a bid puts too much responsibility (onus) on the seller to actively participate in the process, which is not a good way to do it.
I did not miss your point. I think you may have missed mine. You are not entitled to cancel your bid, that is not a given. And yes, there are situations where all sellers are flexible, me included.
I am addressing the problem of people assuming that they can cancel bids and are entitled to do that. And not all requests, to have bids canceled, are legitimate. It is a judgement call by the seller, usually influenced by the persons FB history.
posted on October 29, 2000 12:06:17 PM new
Like it or don't Yahoo is seller friendly.
Read on the Ebay board the frequency with which canceled bids occur, and don't forget the other side of the story here. No bid shielding. As a seller I appreciate being protected from that.
posted on October 29, 2000 11:49:14 PM new
I agree with VeryModern...I LIKE having the seller cancel a bid, and I don't mind doing it for the bidder. It beats having the bid stand, and finding out much later that the winner isn't going to PAY me. And it helps prevent bid manipulation by two people working together (one of which will cancel at the last minute so the other one can win the item cheaply, as happens on ebay).
I don't understand what all the fuss is about. If you're asked to cancel a bid, just cancel it and move on. I don't care WHY I'm asked to do it, whether the reason is a good one or not. The bidder obviously doesn't intend to honor the bid, so what good does it do to REFUSE to cancel it???
posted on October 30, 2000 04:59:38 AM new
Granee ...
"I don't understand what all the fuss is about. If you're asked to cancel a bid, just cancel it and move on. I don't care WHY I'm asked to do it, whether the reason is a good one or not. The bidder obviously doesn't intend to honor the bid, so what good does it do to REFUSE to cancel it???
Please read my starting post I canceled MY bid, moved on, seller didn't see the request to cancel, and I got negged.
What's wrong with the way eBay does this? We're not talking about canceling a bid AFTER the auction has closed (i.e deadbeat) ... we're talking about Yahoo's indirect way of allowing a bid to be canceled DURING the auction ...
posted on October 30, 2000 08:04:28 AM new
re(what's wrong with the way ebay does this"
maybe it's different now but when I was a newbie bidding on ebay for the first few times, I received my one and only negative (it later got changed to netruel when the seller was suspended) was due to bidding in haste, then realizing MINUTES later it was a mistake and retracting my bid. I bid and retracted a bid within maybe five minutes and the ebay seller had the nerve to neg me.
O.K. this was not a typical ebay seller by any means but I sure learned my lesson and it was not just about being sure before I bid, it was about reading feedback. This seller had a high number and red star but he had about 100negs mixed in there with his positives.
posted on October 30, 2000 09:29:04 AM new
kimbo ... I don't think it's any different now on eBay.
I agree 100% that a bid should be placed with care, but I also believe that there are extraordinary circumstances that can arise that force a person to cancel a bid. Even a cancelation with the reason "I bid too much", while maybe not satisfying to the seller, is still better than letting the bid stand and deadbeating at the end.
My problem with Yahoo is the METHOD they chose to allow a bid cancellation. You must ask the seller to cancel your bid through some stupid 'question and answer' thing that most people don't respond to even when a question about the item is asked (this has to do with poor email etiquette, which is another story!), the seller misses this, s/he assumes that your bid is OK and, you know the results.
I wish I had a buck for every legit email I have sent to webtv users who did not receive my message because their mailbox was 'full' - perhaps my request to cancel a bid was lost in there somewhere. I tried to cancel in good faith, but the SYSTEM screwed me
posted on October 30, 2000 09:48:25 AM new
Not trying to defend the seller here, but you must also remember that the "Question and Answer" system on Yahoo is flawed and needs to be fixed. I have had several occasions when someone asked a question through that system and I did not receive the e-mail about the question until a couple of days after the auction closed. Even though I put my e-mail address in every auction description, many people still use the "Question and Answer" instead of the e-mail. As I said, not necessarily trying to defend the seller here, as I don't know the siutation, but it may not have been the seller's fault.
posted on October 30, 2000 10:01:24 AM new
auctionee --- absolutely correct! I doubt very much that I would have received a neg from the seller if she knew I wanted to cancel my bid before the auction ended. This has created a bad feeling between her and I, and is SOLELY the result of Yahoo's dumbass policy for canceling bids
Are there are 'power sellers' on Yahoo who simply don't have the time to cancel someone's bids if asked?
posted on October 30, 2000 12:05:24 PM new
RB: Maybe Yahoo shouldn't given an automatic neg for the first bid cancellation but there should be a limit on them because I have been the victim of bid shielding on ebay and the bidders involved showed in their feedback rating a ridiculous amount of bid retractions. The way ebay just counts them and does nothing is not right either. The bidder in one of my auctions had a very low for zero feedback but about 20 bid cancellations. The bidders involved were finally suspended by ebay but only because I could show the bid shielding scheme was obivious on my auction and the same players were involved in other auctions together.
My point is there is a reason for yahoo to discourage these type of cancellations. I wonder if the bidder is warned first that he will get the administrative neg before he goes through with it. On the other hand, I am one of those sellers, that when asked will cancel bids because I'd rather know right away that the bidder is not a serious one.
I think a good compromise (if Yahoo is listening) is to allow a bidder up to 2 bid cancellations, then a warning and neg on the 3rd if they insist on making a habit of it.
posted on October 30, 2000 01:39:07 PM new
kimbo ... it's not Yahoo that negs people, but the buyers and sellers who use their site.
In order to cancel a bid on Yahoo, you have to post a request under "questions" on the listing and HOPE the seller sees it and takes action BEFORE the auction closes.
Let's assume that I am a seller on Yahoo and you place a bid on one of my items. You change your mind before the auction closes, and you cancel your bid. IF I see your request to cancel, and IF I reply to you saying I have canceled if, I would not be too happy that you changed your mind.
But, I would not neg you as this probably would not effect any subsequent bidding.
OTOH, if you didn't cancel your bid, then deadbeated, I would be pissed off and I would neg you.
On Yahoo, the difference between making me unhappy or pissing me off is solely based on whether or not I see and react to your cancelation before the auction closes.
On eBay, and I am NOT supporting eBay here (!), a bid may be canceled by the bidder, and whether or not it 'goes through' has nothing to do with the seller.
That's my problem with Yahoo.
The other problem with their wonky system means that I cannot communicate directly with a seller to ask questions. I have to post my question (for all to see), hope the seller reads it and posts a reply, then I have to check periodically to see if a reply was made.
posted on October 30, 2000 02:34:08 PM new
oh maybe they changed things then. I don't buy on Yahoo, I sell and I know in the past I have seen (administrative negs) that were given by Yahoo for cancelling of bids. Maybe there is no such thing anymore. I am never happy about cancelling a bid when a bidder requests it, but I agree it is better than having a deadbeat on your hands.
I would never give a neg for that reason either. Negs should not be given lightly IMHO
posted on October 30, 2000 02:38:48 PM new
re:"then I have to check periodically to see if a reply was made."
Doesn't yahoo email you that a answer has been left for your ? like they email the sellers that a ? has been asked?
I always thought they would...
I have my email available on each and every item I list, yet bidders like to use that stupid ? and answer page, why, I dunno.
I always answer ASAP but if they wait till the last minutes of an auction and the auction ends before I can get to it, there is no way to answer. Unless of course they include THEIR email address in the ? which sometimes they do.
Yahoo is doing their best to protect everyones privacy but I really think if you want to sell you need to be available even if you set up a special email account just for your selling ID.
If the seller agrees to cancel your bid, they will. There is no need to answer your question. And by not answering, it will not show. Only answered questions show.
kimbo
They did away with 'administrative negs' back in April, I believe. And you do get an e-mail if you ask a question, that has been answered by the seller. Provided you opted to get e-mail notifications of auctions you are bidding on.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ edited by CharlieOne on Oct 30, 2000 06:23 PM ]
posted on October 30, 2000 08:05:58 PM new
CharlieOne
"And by not answering, it will not show. Only
answered questions show."
... not sure I understand this. I can point you to 3 different auctions where my unanswered questions about the item or shipping costs appear with no answers ... maybe it works differently on your PC then it does on mine, in which case, Yahoo has a consistency problem
" Provided you opted to get e-mail notifications of auctions you are bidding on."
And providing the person being asked the question checks their email, and providing they are not using a quasi-ISP (like WEBTV) that has a very limited capacity for new mail and will not show new messages once the mailbox is full, and providing the seller is one of those people who actually respond to a question.
This may be a good system for asking questions (although I still prefer direct contact), but it sucks ... big time ... as a system for canceling a bid ... which brings me right back to the beginning of this thread
"I can point you to 3 different auctions where my unanswered questions about the item or shipping costs appear with no answers"
That is because you asked the questions. You will see them, others will not, (except for the seller), unless the sellers answer the questions. It has nothing to do with the computers being used, or a Yahoo problem. Just like giving a FB rating. When you view the closed auction, of an item you won, only you will see the "Rate seller" link. No one else, not even the seller. The seller will see the "Rate buyer" link, because he is the seller.
posted on October 30, 2000 11:59:15 PM new
RB, I think the real problem here is the intolerance of the Yahoo seller who gave you the neg for not paying, especially in light of the fact that you told him you emailed him with the request to cancel your bid and he failed to do so (whether or not he actually received the email request).
When my auction winner lets me know right away that he's not going to pay, I don't leave negative feedback, regardless the excuse. When a winner argues about paying sales tax or the cost of shipping, I let him back out without leaving him a neg. When an auction winner emails several weeks later with a "sob" story (house fire, accident, illness, death, loss of job, etc.) I don't leave a neg because the story *might* be true.
The ONLY negs I give are for deadbeats who string me along for weeks with promises to pay and never do; winners who don't respond AT ALL to repeated emails (and feedback messages) and don't send the payment; and buyers (of which I've had 2) who unjustifiably neg me.
I think your seller was too quick to leave negative feedback. Since no fees are involved on Yahoo (unless the auction is featured), I find it less stressful to forget it and move on, relisting or selling to a backup bidder rather than causing bad feelings with a buyer who might want to buy something from me in the future.
This isn't ebay (where a deadbeat can cost you stiff fees, time, and "freshness" of listing). Too many sellers are coming to Yahoo with "ebay attitudes" intact, and need to become more "laid-back".
posted on November 1, 2000 04:24:33 PM new
Since Yahoo is not fee-based, I have no real incentive to neg a bidder. Did once. No more. I now blacklist them, pull their bid and relist.
