posted on December 19, 2000 11:28:15 PM new
I had an auction close with a "newbie" winner on October 20th. The bidder was slow to respond to emails but promised on November 5th that she would send the payment.
Before leaving town for Thanksgiving 10 days later, I sent yet *another* email saying payments not received by the 17th wouldn't be processed until the 27th when I got back (which I sent to all my buyers with outstanding payments due).
When I collected all my mail being held at the post office on the 27th, I cashed money orders at the bank and shipped merchandise to those buyers whose payments had arrived. Her payment was not among them.
The end of November I gave up on her and left negative feedback (her only feedback to date), but I didn't cancel her bid because I figured it would hurt my "sell-through rate" that Yahoo was supposedly using to determine my listing order.
I never heard a peep from her until today, when she writes me and says, "I'm sorry I took so long with payment-read my poor review from yahoo. Can I still get my book this year?"
I'm now down to my last copy of the book she bid on (out of print), which is in mint condition, and it's listed on Yahoo for a "First Bid Wins" price that's $10.00 higher than her bid last October (still easily worth twice what I'm asking). So I write her and say, "I only have one copy of the book left, and it's Yahoo Auction number XXXXXXXX, so you'll need to bid on the book if you want to purchase it."
She then forwards me a copy of the 'winning bidder' email she got from Yahoo TWO MONTHS AGO, with this personal note at the top, "Just a reminder, that you need to send the book soon. Thanks in advance." I'm thinking, IN ADVANCE OF WHAT???
I then get this email (in response to the last one I sent), "What do you mean by 'bid on it?' I already bought the book from you. I sent payment if form of money order November 20, 2000. Please send me the book. The money order was cashed, so you received the check. Finish your part of the deal, please."
I'm stunned. I search the house and my car, wondering if I somehow received a money order (or was it a check--she states both) from her and misplaced the envelope before filling her order?????? I had one other money order mailed to me about this same time get "lost" in the mail (our city has been known to have "mailbox thieves" who empty mailboxes looking for cash, money orders and checks, which are fraudulently cashed), so that is ALSO a possibility.
But it's also possible that she never paid me at all. She never wrote to say she'd mailed me a money order (or a check); never responded to the neg I left for her 9 DAYS AFTER SHE SAYS SHE MAILED THE PAYMENT; and never wrote, in all this time, to ask if I'd gotten the payment and mailed the book to her.
She just sent me a copy of my EOA email to her from last October 20th, as if that's PROOF of something. (All it proves to me is that she had copies of her winning notification from Yahoo AND from me in her mailbox ALL THIS TIME, while failing to pay for the auction.)
I don't know WHAT to do. If I cashed (rather than deposited) her supposed money order or cashier's check, there won't be any record of it at my bank; but she says it was cashed, so she must have put a trace on it, right (or was it a personal check)? Can I contact the issuer of a money order or cashier's check to see a photocopy of the signature of the person who cashed it?
Had all this happened 6 weeks ago (right after the auction closed), I'd take her word that she'd sent the payment and I'd send her the book (though I'd be taking a substantial loss---my cost plus shipping). The other buyer whose payment was lost I sent a damaged copy to (since I didn't have much invested), and she returned the favor by mailing me a check for half the amount of the purchase.
But I don't feel generous with this bidder. Am I being scammed?
posted on December 20, 2000 12:21:15 AM new
The question is --Do you really think she paid $2.75(?) to the PO to get the money order traced for being cashed?? She most likely did not so has absolutely no idea if it has been cashed or not.....stand your guns--say you have reviewed your records and find no evidence that a MO was received or cashed.
posted on December 20, 2000 01:35:05 AM new
Tough situation. I agree with Zazzie though.
It sure sounds like a scam to me. Why don't you invite her here? We'll all grill her for you, and maybe the truth can be discerned one way or the other.
I have to say that I am a firm believer in "innocent until proven guilty" and I sure would hate to see a customer who paid not get her merchandise, but we really don't have enough to go on until she tells us that yes, she did indeed trace that money order. Even then it's hard to know what happened without physically seeing a copy of it. But she could certainly post a scan of it here, if that is available, and I'm sure that Granee would recognize her own signature if she did indeed endorse & cash it. Know what I mean?
posted on December 20, 2000 08:33:18 AM new
If she traced this MO, then she has a copy from the Post OFfice, showing when and how it was cashed, same as a check.Have her copy that front and back and e mail it to you via scaner to prove she really did send and you really did cash the MO...
I don't think she did a trace on that, not with the little communication she did to you.
It being that long ago, I bet she never sent it, just thinks she did...
Also how is her fb looking now ? thats a long time ago...
Make her PROVE she send and you cashed the monies...Settle for NO LESS...
posted on December 20, 2000 09:05:35 AM newgranee What is it about this time of year that brings out the crazies?!
Do you state in your TOS or EOA that they have 10 days to pay? If so, she is well past that time period and was even before she sent the last e-mail.
I am with Joan. Send a note stating that you do not have any record of payment and if she will send a copy of the payment showing the front and back with signature you will be happy to complete the transaction.
posted on December 20, 2000 09:14:52 AM new
Something seems suspicious here. Her lack of communications, even after being rated negatively, in November? Just doesn't make sense to me. Also, you raised the price of the item, and now you hear from her? That also, looks rather funny. As I mentioned in another thread, that recently happened to me, (a price rise brought the buyer calling).
Mentioning a money order and a check? This person is either confused, or lying. Why wasn't she checking much earlier about getting her book? Why didn't she react to the negative? This auction closed a long time ago, where has she been so long?
I agree with Joan. She had better prove she has paid for the item, the form of payment, and the fact it was cashed, and by who? I know we like to give the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But this one has red flags waving all over the place. This person is/was also (new). Another great buyer, or a hit and run scammer? Who knows, as this is her first, and maybe last, transaction?
posted on December 20, 2000 09:24:29 AM new
Another note. Be sure that she sends you a copy of the CANCELLED, ENDORSED money order, not a copy of a receipt. It's amazing how many buyers try this, and how many sellers fall for it. Unless she can provide proof of payment (including the fact that you received and cashed it), you are not obligated to send the merchandise.
always pickersangel everywhere
posted on December 20, 2000 10:58:47 AM new
Inquiring minds want to know, make sure you let us all know what happens in the end on this one...
I think we all agree, she never sent it.
But we still want to know...
Keep us updated.
Joan
posted on December 20, 2000 11:42:08 AM new
Thanks to all for your opinions and advice. Last night, after posting this here, I felt I couldn't go to bed without answering her last email, so I wrote her this:
"I don't have any record of your having paid me for the book. Did you send a money order (and if so, what kind), a cashier's check, or a personal check? If you have a cancelled personal check, please send me a scan of the front and back so I can verify that I received and cashed it, and I'll send you your book with my apologies. If you have information about a money order or cashier's check being cashed, please forward it to me to investigate.
One other payment sent to me was "lost in the mail" around the same time (or stolen from our mailbox, which could also explain yours being cashed). We went out of town during that time, and I processed a lot of orders when we got back, so there's a remote possibility your order fell through the cracks.
If you'll forward the information about your payment, I'll try to see what happened to it."
I haven't heard back from her yet. To answer your questions:
Zazzie, no I don't think she paid the PO $2.75 to trace a money order (if it WAS a postal money order)---wouldn't you contact the seller FIRST before paying to trace it???
CAgrrl, I don't want to invite her here and open a can of worms. I'd rather lose money and send her the book rather than make a public spectacle of this.
justjoan, the neg I gave her the end of November is still her ONLY feedback, good OR bad.
labbie1, I don't give my buyers a specific time limit to pay me---partly because so many wouldn't pay on time; partly because *most* of my items are duplicates which I relist immediately, anyway; and partly because it's less stressful to me to be more "laid-back" with my buyers.
As for "What is it about this time of year that brings out the crazies?!", I get my share of them ALL YEAR LONG. I've had buyers string me along for two months about paying, then suddenly write a month later and ask WHERE IS MY PURCHASE??? I reply that I never received payment, and they find the check/money order envelope in their pocket or car, still waiting to be mailed.
One guy took FOREVER to pay me, then I received a money order for $7.40 (when he owed $27.40). He didn't want to believe me, so I told him to look at his money order receipts. Two months later I got the other $20.00 from him.
It's almost enough to make me quit this and go back to work for despised Corporate America.
posted on December 20, 2000 07:52:35 PM new
Granee like your answer EXCEPT for the opening you gave them on the posible theft in your mail box. Opened a can of worms there.
Of course it's got to be your signature and deposit only etc on the back of the check, but if she took that long to write before, you may grow old and feeble by the time you get an answer on this one.
I'm sort of laughing at your one that took so long to send the 20.00...
But I've been there done that on customers, and I just sit on it, I got the item, I got some of the monies, now buyer get on the ball.
I used to do layaways a lot, and have actually had people forget FOREVER that they had a layaway, paid moneys in and then just disappeared. I kid you not.
posted on December 20, 2000 11:11:10 PM new
granee & labbie- I have one of those crazies this week myself, from Ebay. She won an item from me back in november. Then she asked to be released from her obligation to buy. I released her from her obligation to buy and at the same time asked her never to bid on our items again (and I cc'ed a copy to safeharbor, too, which they acknowledged.) Then a few days later she emailed me saying she wanted the item after all. It's an item I have multiples of, so I told her that it was no problem. She demanded to pay by PayPal, and I told her I don't accept PayPal, that she should send a check or money order. I never recieved one. I just figured she changed her mind again, so I wasn't too worried about it.
Well, early last week I started getting emails from her demanding a trace on the item. She was sure she'd paid for insurance too.
I wrote her back to let her know that I didn't need to trace the item since I'd never recieved a payment from her. Since I never recieved payment I never sent the item. She apologized and said she'd send the payment right away.
Well, I recieved the payment in yesterday's mail. I also recieved TWO threatening emails from her yesterday. She said she won this item back in November and she hasn't recieved it yet and she is going to leave negative feedback for me! UNREAL!!!!
That item is the only item I had to send out today, and I stood in line for well over an hour to get it out. Time well spent as I want this woman OUT OF MY HAIR. She is 55 years old. Is that too young to be senile? The $7 item was REALLY NOT WORTH THE HEADACHE of dealing with her. *SIGH*
posted on December 21, 2000 02:25:31 AM new
Granee - I think your response was great and I'm going to keep a copy of it to remind me what should be said rather than what I would sometimes like to say to customers.
You are clearly willing to be more than fair with this customer and it is not unreasonable to request some form of proof that payment was made and received.
posted on December 21, 2000 11:30:09 AM new
One thing I always do is remove the deadbeat buyer from the auction. I do this because it looks like I made a sale when, in fact, I didn't. I don't want to inflate Yahoo's idea of how much we are making so they can justify starting to charge us.
I don't care if it effects my sell-through rate which I think is just a buncha spin from them anyway.
posted on December 23, 2000 09:44:35 PM new
Well, it's been four days and I haven't heard back from her. My husband thinks I'll get a money order in the mail from her in a few days, for the original bid price rather than the current auction price, but I don't know. I do feel now that she never paid me, or I would have heard back from her right away (wouldn't YOU write the seller back if you HAD sent the money???).
I'll let you know if anything more develops. Merry Christmas!
posted on December 23, 2000 11:47:35 PM new
yeah, granee, It really does sound like she never paid you. Wonder if she will pay now though? Would you accept the lower price if she does? Just wondering.
You guys will never guess- my nutty customer left me glowing positive feedback! I was stunned! I was expecting my first neg over that. I'm not sure what kind of feedback to leave her- I'm dying to just be dead on honest, as in "This transaction was the biggest headache of all time" or just go with the "thanks very much for your purchase" approach.
Now I have another nut on my hands though. I sold an item that had some damage. There were close up photos of the damage and the damage was also mentioned in the item description. The final bid price was only $5.00. Customer emailed me today that they recieved the item and were unhappy with it because it is damaged. *SIGH* Don't people read?
