posted on January 23, 2002 05:36:59 AM new
I would like to enlist the common sense help from the readers of this
forum on this issue. Here are the main players in this situation. The
names have been changed.
This involves my sister, Jane. She goes
to college part time, has a part time job, and has a small cleaning
business. She’s been married for about 21 years to the same guy
and has 1 child living at home, Johnny, age 18. Everyone lives in
Michigan.
Her husband, Bob, is self employed in the heating and cooling
business. Due to the downturn in the economy, the business has
been slow. I think family finances have been getting tougher.
And finally, the son Johnny. He dropped out of high school at 16. He
just turned 18 in December and works part time in a farm equipment
store. He owns his own pickup truck. A 1991(?) Ford F150 which
appears to be in pretty good shape. He doesn’t pay any room and
board for living at home.
Now on to the problem. In about November of last year, Jane bought
a good used Pontiac Grand Prix. Johnny fell in love with this car. He
thought that it would be a great idea to ask his mother to borrow this
car so he, then age 17, and two of his 18 year old friends could drive
to Florida. One of the friends would be dropped off in Florida and
Johnny and the other friend would drive back to Michigan. She
advised him that she didn’t think it was a good idea and told him no.
Johnny’s friend has since made it to Florida on his own. Jane has
told me that since she told Johnny no on the issue, he hasn’t spoke to
her. I think that his shunning her in really taking a toll on her
emotionally as a mother. The other day when I called their house,
Johnny answered the phone. I asked for his mother and he handed
the phone to his dad. He wouldn’t even hand her the phone and say
“it’s for you.”
She’s asked me several times if I think she’s done the correct thing in
saying no. I tell her YES! and she should not feel bad about it. It seems to be eating away at her. I have tried to have her understand that in such a trip, money would be a major part of this trip. Responsibility, and many other important
factors are not a part of the 17 year old mind. Additionally, it’s best to
be the parent instead of the friend.
If you were a parent in her position, what would you have done? I will
show her this thread. Thanks very much for your input.
posted on January 23, 2002 07:05:08 AM new
Some comments and observations:
I would certainly have said "no" to borrowing my car for this trip. Its one thing if the trip is necessary (if johnny were going to college maybe) and if johnny's car were unsafe, then I'd considering lending him the pontiac. But for a "fun" trip, I see no reason to lend him my car just because he prefers it. If he wants a better car, let him save for it and buy one himself. Parents have a responsibility to consider the overall picture of managing a family, and letting a 17 y/o take the mother's car on a joy ride to florida doesn't strike me as a good way to do that.
It wasn't clear if your fried said "no" to the entire idea of him driving to florida and back...in other words, was it acceptable for him to do this in his own truck? This depends a lot on the person, but there are a few 18 y/os I would trust to drive there and back (not most of them however. I would have said "no" to my kids).
In any case, this "shunning" is a problem for the family. Where is the dad in all of this? Presumably he agrees with the original decision, and he shouldn't be letting this treatment of his wife continue. A couple of days of anger/silence would be expected, but anything after that needs to be dealt with. He needs to make it clear that the son's continued treatment of his wife is unacceptable.
By the way, the son should be paying room and board, unless it is physically impossible to do so (such as he is handicapped and unable to find employment that can pay for it). If he wants to be treated like an adult (going on trips by himself for days) he needs to start taking on adult responsibilities, like paying his own way.
posted on January 23, 2002 07:41:04 AM new
Of course, she made the right decision! They can't afford to take unecessary risks with the car and he should be able to understand this.
The problem that I would be most concerned about is the fact that her son dropped out of school. Returning him to school would be my top priority. High School classes are probably available in the state of Michigan at night.
posted on January 23, 2002 06:45:08 PM new
I suspect that being financially responsible is not the whole problem. What's the point in having a family of unhappy "boarders".
If one member of a family is not happy, the whole family suffers. It's usually a dynamic problem that can only be sorted out with the help of a lot of background family history.
The problem with the car and the trip to Florida is just a symptom of a deeper problem within the family.
Lots of questions would need to be answered in order to figure this problem out.
I would be interested to know if this behavior of the son is a pattern that has been used successfully in the past.
posted on January 24, 2002 01:46:33 AM new
Hi Everyone,
I really do appreciate your comments. I have learned a few things from them. Here are some additional issues that may help.
The maraige sometimes travels down a very rocky road. Financial problems are adding to making it worse. It seems that there is an element of emtional abuse from the husband to the wife. She is my sister and I fully aware that she is not in any way perfect. She too, like I have a few faults. I would think it's safe to say that sometimes people can be hard to live with. Everyone is different behind closed doors. The household atmosphere is chilling cold at times. I think the son sometimes models himself after his father.
Johnny can go to adult education classes for free. It doesnt seem to be important to him. He apparently does realize that without a high school education or a GED, he won't be accepted in many employment situations. Even dead end jobs.
Desquirrel,
I fully agree. This kid need to have a collision with reality.
Captkirk,
The father is present in the home. Jane says he and the son "act so much alike". I don't know what the fathers position is on this issue. She has never really said.
Helen,
I agree. This issue with the car is only a small portion of an overall larger problem.
I have told her in the fact the child is 18, her parenting job is FINISHED. The marriage/homelife doesn't seem to show any sign of improvement for the future. If nobody wants to change, there will be no change. If there os no communication, there is never going to be any change. Simple talking is the start of change. I think she feels trapped.
posted on January 26, 2002 11:30:37 PM new
It has been my experience, that an issue that is recognized, is generally not the real issue. I've had my own share of focusing on something with all energy, only to keep me from the real, underlying issue, because the real issue is really hard to deal with. This may be true here too.
The son knows just how to hurt the mom, and he has learned somewhere how to be selfish and lacks compassion and responsibility. Some of that is age appropriate but it may be that rejection has been used regularly in the family to get compliance. That's too bad.
Although, your sister is being mistreated, and I feel for her, she would benefit if she could realize that regardless of what her son or husband does or doesn't do, that she's a valuable individual. Their approval of her or her choices is sqwat. It would be wonderful if they sent more acceptance and acknowledgment her way, but if they choose not to, it in no way makes her wrong, or of any less value.
When the people we love hurt us, even though we know we're doing the right thing, it can be hard not to buckle under the pressure because feeling loved feels better than not feeling loved. But the 2 guys don't seem to know that showing love does not first require something. Witholding love is immature. If dad is cold and unsupporting, and son withdraws his warmth, she could feel the overwhelming awareness that her household doesn't fulfill her needs. That's a horrible feeling.
The family can learn new coping skills together, but your sister will only be able to choose for herself to learn to cope and feel "allright" regardless of what the other 2 do or don't do.
A good self-help book that comes to mind is: The Dance of Intimacy. It's easy reading and very helpful for an individual to be able to recognize how they and others react to/with one another. There's nothing like a little healthy control to help a person feel like they aren't at the mercy of the actions of others.
posted on January 27, 2002 01:09:24 AM new
That's a tough situation but I've never seen one more deserving of "tough love." The car belongs to your sister. Her choice. As the psychologists say, your nephew "owns" the problem.
My advice, it's high time the kid was out on his own. Show him the door. An 18-year old should know life is not a free ride.
posted on January 27, 2002 08:08:07 AM new
If this were my son, his belongings would be on the front porch, and his key would no longer fit the door. SHame on the father for permitting anyone to treat his wife like that.
Once my husband told our son, "She may be your mother, but no one speaks to my wife like that".
posted on January 27, 2002 11:17:24 AM new
First of all, three young guys in a "fly" car headed to Florida? Heck, my answer would be a flat NO to the trip, not just the use of the car.
I guarantee there were some big plans going on .. and it wasn't just a trip to Florida. Alcohol? Drugs? Drinking & driving? What happens when they run out of money? And if they get in an accident or get arrested how will she get to him? After all, he wants to take her car.
My parents had a rule in their house ... diploma or death. All five kids graduated from high school. A GED should be demanded here. When I hire people I first hire high school graduates, then people with a GED. I am not looking for people who cannot stick with it and finish high school.
I think a meeting between the parents is in order and they should decide how to handle the whole situation and do so on a united front. It is their home, and at 18 and out of school it is time to learn responsibility. He could be helping with the bills at the very least.
Or ... have him call me and I will let him know what it feels like when your parents die. He's lucky ... he just is too stubborn to know it.
This is your sister's home. If her son is not happy there he should looking for a place of his own.
posted on January 28, 2002 10:27:04 PM new
I agree with All of the Above.
Our middle child, a daughter, was just totally obnoxious to me for most of her life; she'd dropped in and out of college, had some strange friends, lived at home and was very unhappy. And made us all unhappy with her behavior toward us, especially me, the mother. We told her our only rule was that she had to be civil in our house, and that she'd have to be out in 6 months and on her own if she wasn't going to finish college (which we were paying for).
She couldn't even be civil, so we kicked her out. It was the hardest thing we've ever done as parents. She went to live with friends who were on food stamps, and they all got a Thanksgiving dinner turkey for themselves with food stamps. Lived in a horrid filthy old apartment a mile from our house.
It nearly killed me to have her so close and so indigent. She had a job handing out free samples at Swiss Something Farms in the mall, no car so had to walk to the job in the snow, etc. etc.
Well, after 6 months she got some counseling, saw a chiropractor who straightened her back for her, and was like a new woman. She said she felt as though she'd had PMS all her life (she was now 22).
She is happily married to a fine man, two neat little boys, living a good life here in California.
Tough Love is tough on parents, not just on the children. It was the best thing we could have done for her but at the time I couldn't sleep, shook a lot, had nightmares, felt horribly guilty and afraid that people would find out what we'd done.
At the very least, the son in question should be contributing toward his room and board. But there is a big problem, sounds like, with the husband too. I think your sister needs some good counseling. And I'm going to pray for her. ~Adele
All five kids graduated from high school. A GED should be demanded here. When I hire people I first hire high school graduates, then people with a GED. I am not looking for people who cannot stick with it and finish high school.