posted on July 21, 2001 05:03:37 AM new
No, nanastuff, and to be honest I'm not going to have her over again until the investigation is over. It'll be that much harder for her to "tell stories" or twist my words around again if we're not speaking much, if at all. They have 30 days to complete the investigation, so I should know something at least by the middle of August.
And you're right, jwoodcrafts. I know that the stress I've been under with this is not healthy for my kids either. Another good reason to keep my distance.
Besides, I just found out from my doctor something that I've suspected for awhile. I'm going through early menopause, actually they call it perimenopause until the cycle stops completely, then it's menopause. So I'm aware that my threshold for stress is a bit lower than normal, another good reason to keep my distance.
posted on July 22, 2001 02:38:00 PM new
Head on down to your nearest Target or Toys R Us and buy my favorite movie
It's Potty Time!
It is really cute - and catchy and your kids will LOVE it. Pretty soon, you will be hearing
He's a super dooper pooper
He can potty with the best
No more diapers to get in his way
Mommy is very impressed!
You will be amazed at how fast this movie does the trick - well worth the $15 or so you spend for it. I would send you mine but Hannah won't part with it!
posted on July 27, 2001 06:36:20 AM new
I haven't forgotten all of you who are interested in the outcome of this fiasco. I'm not trying to leave you hanging, but I really don't know anything yet.
My grandmother hasn't called me since last Wednesday, which leads me to believe that she's been instructed to not call me, but whether that would have come from my uncle and aunt or the caseworker from APS, who knows? Or maybe she was so mortified over what she had done (the swearing and hanging up part) that she made that decision herself.
Either way, while I'm rather on pins and needles awaiting my interview with the caseworker, I feel a sense of peace that I haven't felt for awhile.
I told my husband that I no longer felt we could take her in even as a temporary resident (provided she was being abused and needed to get out of there) for either of 2 reasons:
1. She might be suffering from the early stages of Alzheimers. (Her mother had it, so I know that's something that professionals really need to deal with, not a stay-at-home mom with 2 young children. That kind of illness only gets worse and worse.) This might explain her inability to remember all these critical conversations we've had and/or cause her to make up "stories" and twist the facts. (Although, with her mother this kind of thing didn't happen. My great-grandmother forgot who people were and kept regressing back in time and became unable to perform the basic functions of self-care until she wound up in a nursing home. At the time, when my grandmother tried to find out more about what was affecting her mother, she discovered that the disease can take the course it was taking with her mother, or the victims can become hostile and simply confused.) My grandmother confessed to me months ago that she was becoming confused about things and she was afraid to let on to my aunt and uncle for fear of being put away. And I will certainly attest that she's been hostile towards me at times for no apparent reason.
2. Or she might remember quite well everything that she's told me about how my uncle and aunt have treated her, but she's pretending she doesn't to try and get herself off the hook with them, even though it'll make me look like the one who's making up "stories" and causing trouble. If that's the case, she's certainly caused permanent damage to our relationship and I will not have her living in my home on any basis if she can do that to me.
I feel at peace because I didn't just ignore these "stories" and forever wonder if I should have done something. No matter what happens, I can live with myself over this.
I'll let you know when I hear something.
BTW, Kyle is improving with his potty training. He's now telling me when he has to go before he starts to have an accident. And he's starting to tell us that he has poop in his pants, before he actually does, but unfortunately, we haven't been able to head off those accidents yet. But it's an improvement and we're headed in the right direction.
posted on July 30, 2001 11:19:15 AM new
Well, I finally have an update for you.
My grandmother called me this morning, then the caseworker called me this afternoon.
In a nutshell, my grandmother absolutely refuses to move from my aunt and uncle's home despite the fact that the caseworker assures her that she's found a place that she can afford, with meals and laundry included. Unless she's being physically abused, they can't get a court order to make her move. Fair enough.
The caseworker says my aunt didn't even mention me at all during the conversation she had with my aunt on the phone. And when she visited with my grandmother in the home, the focus was on finding her a place to live. They didn't discuss any allegations of mistreatment.
My grandmother still is suffering under the illusion that my aunt and uncle will mysteriously reconcile with me. This, to me, is a big joke.
My grandmother told me that my aunt said the hostility is because I promised to help and went back on that promise. However, I never promised to take my grandmother every weekend for the rest of her life, only so long as the arrangement worked out for everyone. And the fact that my grandmother didn't want to come every weekend anymore doesn't have any significance as far as my aunt is concerned. And she said my aunt and uncle have no desire to open up the lines of communication with me to try and work something out. They want nothing more to do with me.
However, my grandmother still thinks she should be allowed to come over on the weekend once in awhile whenever she want to as long as we're going to be home.
Well, I had a news flash for her.
I told her that I was no longer going to open myself to their continued hostilies. Whether over the phone or in person, it doesn't matter. I will not go over there to pick her up and be subjected to tales of hostility and name-calling and false accusations and this would occur even if my husband would get her. I'd just have to wait until she arrived to hear it, that would be the only difference. And even if I were willing, I told her that as long as they've got me blocked from being able to call their house (without going to extreme measures like getting a cell phone, which my husband refuses to do just to get around their block), I will not have her coming over. I will not be placed in the position of having to deal with an emergency and be completely unable to contact my uncle who has power-of-attorney over her health care. Can you picture it? I'd have to say, "Sorry, doc, but you'll have to call my uncle yourself, because he won't speak to me." Then they'd wonder why she was even at my house in the first place when there's a feud between myself and her caregivers, and I think they'd be right.
I told her that we cannot continue to have a visiting relationship when the people she's living with want nothing to do with me, are openly hostile towards me, and will not allow me to call in case of an emergency when she's with me. I did everything I could do and it was time to quit. I told her to pass that message on and that I hope they have a nice life. She could still call when she wanted, but unless things changed, that was it. She said she's going to continue fighting for the right to see my kids. (Notice she keeps mentioning my kids, the hell with me, I guess.)
So, naturally, now she's accusing me of abandoning her.
Well, when I discussed this with the caseworker, she said I didn't need to keep listening to that sort of stuff, that myself, my husband, and kids came first. She said this happens, similar to when a wife is being beaten by the husband. They refuse to leave because it's still a roof over their head and food in their stomachs and that's the tradeoff they accept.
The caseworker said that I'm doing the right thing for myself and my family. I really needed to hear that.
posted on July 30, 2001 09:42:32 PM new
BJ.. I just accessed the RoundTable today, and read part of the "To Interfere" posts at the office today, and finished reading them tonight.
My heart goes out to you. What a situation to find oneself in. I have no real advise or comforting comments, except to share some personal experience - very briefly, as it's late here -
My husband (now ex) and I moved into the "family homestead" in hopes of allowing my Grandmother to live out her final years there. She was 97 when we moved in. Her mind was sharp and she was still collecting rent and writing receipts for several properties she owned - and things started out relatively well. Within weeks, though, she was "playing us" .. it was obvious, but hard to really pin it down, due to her age. A simple "for instance" is she started to refer to me, her granddaughter of 35 years, as "that girl upstairs" (we set up quarters on the third floor of the home).. yet, she readily remembered the names of both her postman and paperboy. She was a strong-minded and very "spoiled" person, and we soon learned to phrase our comments/conversations in particular ways to make her feel the "queen". However, if either of us reacted in our own defense to her abusive commentary (too much to go into here) .. suddenly she was confused and pathetic and misunderstood - and, yes, somewhat hostile. In short, she messed with our minds (and the minds of my father, his brother, their sister...well meaning friends... it wasn't personally directed at us).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that in reading your account of the past few weeks, I feel that your Grandmother is also "playing" folks. She wants sympathy, and doesn't mind stirring up a little controversy - it gives her a bit of "queen" power. But, suddenly she's found herself falling off the deep end, a situation she can't control. This has caused her to panic, and the stress of that has brought on selective memory (she may very well truely NOT have remembered many details when she called you on the 27th)
Is it possible for you to ask the APS representative to strongly encourage a dialogue between yourself and your Uncle>?.. You are between such a rock and a hardplace in all of this, and it's just getting muddier - If the two of you could just compare notes.. smooth out some misunderstandings.
You mentioned he and his wife leave for work every day. Any way possible for you to contact him at the office, or (last resort) show up there near the lunch hour and politely invite him out to quietly discuss his mother?
Just some thoughts - please know that there are people out here rooting for you
Also, please know that it isn't that I don't believe that many things your grandmother is saying don't hold some element of truth - I just think that perhaps she embelishes for her own benefit
Please excuse misspellings above - I'm just too bleary to care.
My thoughts are with you - wish I could time-warp you through all this.
posted on July 31, 2001 05:28:43 AM new
Thank you, MrsSantaClaus!
It doesn't pay to fight God, does it? You'll always lose.
and25cents,
Welcome to the soap opera!
It sounds as though you went through quite a situation with your grandmother. So many aspects sound so similar to my situation, especially the playing us off each other, then pretending to be the innocent in all of it. Unfortunately, it's resulted in my aunt and uncle despising me, which certainly does not help my grandmother.
The caseworker has absolutely no authority to force mediation between us. The only thing they can do is remove my grandmother from the home by court order if they see signs of physical abuse or hear of physical threats being made.
My uncle doesn't work in an office, he works in a factory. I do have his work number because both my aunt and uncle freely gave me their work numbers at the start in case of an emergency. So, you see, they weren't totally cold and heartless at the beginning. But it's in a bad area I wouldn't care to go in. And to drive all that way, 30-40 miles or so I'm guessing, to risk the possibility he'd just tell me to get out, no. My father-in-law still thinks that I should write him a letter, just to him, not my aunt. If I don't put a return address on it, it's possible he might start reading it before he realizes it's from me and he might get something out of it rather than simply throwing it out. I'm considering it, but I don't want to do it while I'm upset, you know? The caseworker also suggested it.
I feel somewhat vindicated though when the caseworker told me herself that she suspected my aunt and uncle "got to her" and "told her that she'd better stay" instead of going to the assisted living place. Because my grandmother had told her she was all set to go look at it when the caseworker could take her, then all of a sudden she changes her mind. The caseworker was totally surprised by this. So I'm glad I'm not the only one who's getting these "changed stories".
To me, if that's the case, it's looking more and more like my aunt and uncle do not want to give up the $400 a month she's paying them. But again, even if I could prove financial coercion is going on, the APS can't do anything about it. The caseworker says that my grandmother does have a clear mind.
I feel rather the fool actually. I suspected that when it came right down to the wire that my grandmother would either deny outright everything she'd ever told me or simply refuse to discuss it, which is exactly the option she chose. I told her point-blank yesterday that her refusal to back up the stories she's told me make me feel like I've been hung out to dry on this one.
Back in March she wanted me to help her find another place to live. I refused and told her that those arrangements should be made between herself and my aunt and uncle. She claimed that they didn't do anything to try and help her. Now, when I provided the means for her to have help that didn't even have to involve them or me, she turns it down flat. It's a no-win situation.
I'm honestly wondering if my grandmother has actually put the blame on me for the weekend visits stopping. She'll continue to maintain with me that it was her decision as well and it's still what she wants. But she could very well have told them that I'm refusing to let her come on the weekends anymore. Who knows? Why on earth would my aunt insist that I broke my promise to help out?
Except for perhaps trying to write my uncle so that at least I can try to be heard, I'm done with her as long as she's living with them.
And thanks for sharing your story. This kind of thing seems to be more commonplace than we'd like to believe.
posted on July 31, 2001 04:42:24 PM new
I forgot to mention earlier that even after I told my grandmother there would be no more visits while hostilities continued, she reminded me of the fact that my other aunt (my father's sister) had mentioned I could bring her along to a party she's giving next month. This invitation was extended the day after my grandmother's weekend visit, on the 16th. I told my grandmother I didn't see how we would be able to do that. But it led me to believe that she didn't take my remarks very seriously.
So I made what I think is a rather bold statement in an attempt to prove I'm serious. This afternoon I packed up the few things my grandmother was keeping here, put them in a small plastic bag, and put them in a cardboard box. (Just toothpaste, toothpowder, toothbrush, extra slippers, etc.) I'd offered to return these things months ago, and several times since the hostilites escalated, but she refused to take them back.) I drove over to the house this afternoon and put the box down in front of the garage door. They couldn't miss it, they'd have to get out of their car or run over it to get into the garage.
I saw the door open a crack as I was getting back into my van. (The dogs would have been barking when I pulled into the drive.) I presume that my grandmother knew it was me, but she didn't call out to me or anything. I had to wait for some cars to pass before I could back out and the door remained cracked open the whole time, even as I drove away.
And you know, this might sound cruel, but I really didn't care. I've gone from disbelief, shock, sadness, depression, literally crying, pleading, to anger, not necessarily in that order.
posted on August 2, 2001 02:00:46 PM new
Hi Rosie,
Yes, my grandmother called yesterday and said they were all quite surprised to find I'd returned her things. I'm guessing that I deflated their "superior" point of view by doing something a bit proactive instead of reactive this time.
I was upfront about why I did it. In the first place, the items didn't belong to me. In the second place, I felt it was the only way I'd be taken seriously about having no more weekend visits as long as hostilities continued.
She admitted that she was all ready to sign up and go in this assisted living place the caseworker recommended, but she's scared of living alone. She's never lived alone in her life.
I told her that's understandable, but that the choice is completely hers. It's either stay where she is and as long as my aunt and uncle remain hostile, we will not see each other again, nor will she get to see my kids. Or, get out of there and into her own place where she can see anyone she pleases and have tons more freedom and options.
I told her that I was mad about her refusal to even go see this place after she's been wanting my help to find her a new place to live for months. (She's mentioned it off and on really ever since she's lived with my aunt and uncle.) I said that when you keep asking for help, then you turn it down, after awhile, people get tired of trying to help.
I told her that we could have worked out a compromise about the visitation months ago, but instead they chose to quit speaking to me. My grandmother did say that she made it clear to my aunt and uncle that it was her decision to quit coming each weekend, that I did not disallow it. But she got no response to that, so she says.
I am on speaking terms with my grandmother, of course, but that's all for now. I accept that nothing further may be possible if the hostilities don't change.
posted on August 3, 2001 11:40:53 AM new
Hi BJ,
It sounds like you are doing what is best for you and your family-- and I think that is great. I know it had to be hard to do that.
I hope that you will take some time and then when you feel like your head is clear enough (if you know what I mean), then maybe sit and write to your uncle. I think it is the right thing to do. If you try one more time and nothing comes of it, at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that you gave it your best effort.
In the meantime-- take care! I have still been following what was going on-- just quietly. :0)
posted on August 3, 2001 01:40:05 PM new
I will do that, ashlandtrader, because I agree with you that it is the right thing to do.
I might also start not answering the phone once in awhile. She called me 3 times this week and today she mentioned that she hurt herself yesterday while going down the stairs. I pointed out that is also a good reason to move someplace where she doesn't have to go up and down the stairs.
But she admitted that she's not going to move unless she's forced into it and to her that means a nursing home. These are not my words, they're hers.
I just plain don't want to listen to these things anymore. It's like a form of torture. "Yes, I know I need help, but I'll refuse all help I'm offered and I'll continue to keep calling and telling you how much help I need."
posted on August 6, 2001 12:55:10 PM new
I received a phone call from my uncle a short while ago. My grandmother is in the hospital and will be there for at least a couple of days. They had to call 911 for her in the middle of the night.
He tried to rush the information out and hang up before I could pick up but I was a little too fast for him I guess.
His voice was all shaky and he was very nervous. He wants me to forget about everything that's happened before for now.
I called my grandmother at the hospital and she sounded good. She said she got up at night and had to go to the bathroom, got back in bed, had to get up to go again immediately, got back in bed, etc. and this went on for an hour. My aunt finally got up, looked at her and asked what was wrong and my grandmother said she was having trouble breathing and about the constant bathroom bit and they called 911 right away.
I don't know anything more at this point. I'm planning on going to visit tonight.
I spoke with my other aunt (my father's sister, not the one who's been nasty throughout this) and she said that my uncle and aunt might actually be frightened now because it's on record that APS is in the middle of an investigation and now my grandmother winds up in the hospital while she's in their care. She says that at this point, social services at the hospital will get involved and if they don't feel she's in any condition to be living alone, then she'll be going to a facility no matter what she says.
posted on August 7, 2001 10:36:52 AM new
We visited with my grandmother last evening and she was in quite good spirits. They're taking quite good care of her I'd say. She's on oxygen.
I talked with her on the phone this morning and it felt quite good to be able to call her for a change!
She said no one had yet told her exactly what had happened to her. But the family doctor did say, (after finding out that she fully intended to go back to my uncle and aunt's house after being discharged) that she won't be in the hospital for too much longer, but that she also wouldn't be going back to my aunt and uncle's house either.
To me, this is good news, and not just because it means we can have a visiting relationship again. She was also quite low on nutrients and the like and obviously my aunt and uncle were content to just let things slide. If nothing else, that's negligence.
Although I will say that I cannot blame people who work for not being able to be home to oversee an elderly person's eating habits, they still have a responsibility to get the person into a facility where the professionals can do it when it becomes apparent the elderly person cannot be trusted to handle it on their own.
I'm sure that people from the APS and other social service agencies see cases of dehydration and malnourishment all the time with elderly people living alone. But to find it in elderly people who are living with family members must be quite disgusting.
There is a chance that your grandmother let this happen, also, so that the choice was taken out of her hands. Now she is the winner on all points ~ and that is a good thing.
Congratulations on a good ending to a very sticky situation ~ and on loving your Grandmother enough to play hardball when it was necessary. I am sure she knows in her heart that you had only her best interests in mind.
posted on August 7, 2001 12:52:07 PM new
Thanks, Becky, and I sincerely hope that this is the end.
I imagine that it's quite rare once someone enters a nursing home from the hospital to become well enough to return to a home where they are unsupervised.
posted on August 7, 2001 02:13:11 PM new
I would say they would have to push for it pretty hard and from what you have said once she is in a situation she does not like to push for change so I think she will stay put OK.
Hope you are able to visit occasionally without having problems thrown in your face.
It will be interesting to see if she is content there or if she finds things to complain about with the nursing hime.
posted on August 8, 2001 10:20:06 AM new
I am truly in a state of incomprehension right now.
My grandmother is being discharged from the hospital today. To go home. Yes, home to my aunt and uncle's house as though nothing has happened.
I talked to APS today and asked if this hospital incident might enable them to keep the case open beyond next week. The answer is no, even though they admit that it appears my aunt and uncle have been neglectful in her care. Unless a doctor declares her incompetent, they can't force her to move into a facility.
I talked to social services at the hospital. They did an evaluation of her (must have been a very short one) and determined that she is physically and mentally fit to return home. I inquired as to what happened to the doctor having said she would not be going home, and the lady said that perhaps the doctor felt that way 2 days ago and changed his mind because she's improved so rapidly. I asked what am I supposed to do when she keeps calling me and talking about her physical failings, ignore it and say tough luck, you had your chance? I was advised to call APS back to get involved again if these calls continue. However, I am in legal trouble if I record her phone conversations without her permission to use them as proof of the things she's saying to me.
So, an 81 year old woman can be admitted to the hospital with several medical problems (they've found at least 3, 1 of which is not temporary) 1 of which is dehydration while living with family members, and no agency can do anything about it unless she's declared incompetent by a doctor. She has also been instructed by my aunt to call them, not 911 if she should have another incident and they will come home right away, even though neither one of them would be able to reach her for at least a half an hour. I told social services that such a statement proves to me that my grandmother's safety and care do not take priority with them and that the $400 a month they're getting from her seems to be more important. She advised me to tell APS of this and I told her I have, but it doesn't seem to matter. Their hands are tied legally.
You know how when you watch the evening news you see stories of children who've been killed by their caregivers, even their own parents and foster parents? And usually the media is able to dig up numerous relatives, friends, neighbors, who swore they called this agency, that agency, the police even, and everyone said they couldn't do anything. Yet, the child wound up dead somehow!
To me, this is much the same thing. I'm trying my hardest to protect my grandmother from emotional abuse and neglect and no one in authority can do anything.
There is one option open, which I believe was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I'm not prepared to go that route. APS told me that I could petition the courts to appoint me as her legal guardian and that would override my uncle's power-of-attorney and I could put in her a facility with or without her permission. I've been advised against doing so by my mother-in-law, because that would make it impossible for me to reconcile with my uncle ever. Actually, I'm not really concerned about reconciling with him under the circumstances if her money is more important to him than her well-being. But I'm concerned with the consequences to myself and my family. I went through hell while my mother was dying of cancer and I will never forget the emotional and financial toll it took upon me. I will not put my husband and children through that as long as she still has a son who should be taking that responsibility for her.
I think you will understand what I mean by the following statement:
Stubborn, STUPID, old people!!!!
They must maintain their relationship with their children even when those children are neglecting/abusing/financially exploiting them!
posted on August 8, 2001 11:10:38 AM new
Hello BJGrolle - I've been reading this thread since it started. These family issues can be very difficult and I'm sorry your struggling with all this.
If I were in your shoes, I'd ask myself a couple of questions. Like: Do I want to continue a relationship, even if it can only be by phone, with my grandmother? Even if I can only do so when she initiates the calls? In order to visit with my grandmother in person, am I willing to go pick her up to take her out for a day or two, regardless of what my relationship is with my aunt and uncle and regardless of how they are treating me? If your answer is yes, then it can achieved.
I feel sorry for your grandmother in a way. Here she is, 81 years old, and I'd guess feeling scared of making life-changing decisions at this time in her life. Then she appears, from what you've shared, to want a relationship with her son and his wife and with you also, but can't find a way to repair the relationships. She's kind of in between a rock and a hard place, IMO.
Again, if it were me with the circumstances being what they are to this point I'd probably do the following. I'd wait until she calls you, listen to her sharing and work at loving her unconditionally. No matter what happens. I'd try and stay off the subject of her son for a while, and maybe just share with her all the wonderful memories you have about her. How much you appreciate all she's done for you, what she's meant to you...etc. Share what your family is doing currently....etc. If she complains about her living conditions I'd just listen. Sometimes people just want an 'ear' not a solution. Should she share anything that concerns you, you can ask her if she wants you to do such and such.
I think she loves both you and her son and wants a relationship with you both. I'd hate to see you totally shut her off, that almost sounds like you're punishing her for not doing things the way you want her to. We need to respect that although the elderly do need our help and support, they still have opinions and a mind of their own. We need to respect their decisions.
I certainly hope nothing I've shared with you here have offended you in any way. Just me sharing how I'd try to resolve this situation, if it were my grandmother.
I wish you and your grandmother only a renewed loving relationship, one you both can savor and enjoy.
posted on August 8, 2001 12:07:22 PM new
I am sorry, BJ. I hope that if nothing else you will be able to keep the lines of communication open with your Grandmother.
I'm not offended by anything you've said, not at all. There are some things I've not shared because I felt they shouldn't have had any bearing on my feelings, but perhaps they do.
My mother (my grandmother's daughter) abused me both physically and emotionally until I was 19. This abuse went on despite the fact that we lived in my grandparent's home. It was always done in secret behind a closed bedroom door or when my grandparents weren't home. I'd prefer not to go into any great detail about it. Suffice it to say that I finally approached my grandmother for help during my teenage years. Her position then and always was that they didn't feel they had any right to interfere because my mother had a right to raise me as she saw fit.
Excuse me??????
When I was 18 the abuse became more open because my mother's mental state (she'd been abusing prescription drugs since I'd been born) had deteriorated enough that she wasn't even trying to hide it. My grandfather threatened to throw her out of the house if she didn't straighten up. That was the first sign of support I'd ever received against the treatment my mother dished out towards me.
My grandmother had been loving towards me when I was a young child, but as I grew older, she turned very critical and flew off the handle at the slightest thing, perhaps because of my mother's continued deterioration, I don't know. And, of course, she was very loving towards my daughter many years later, and I haven't forgotten these good things as well as the bad things.
But in no way have we ever had a blissful, loving, calm relationship. During these trying times I've remembered when she failed to help me when I needed it badly, yet I've pressed on to try and help because it's the right thing to do.
Years ago, she took her daughter's side against me, at least that's the way I feel when she chose to look the other way instead of confronting my mother and/or trying to get her/me the help she/Ie needed. And in this case, I feel she is again taking her son's side by refusing to admit to the authorities or any other relatives these things she's been telling me.
That is the basis of my remark about taking the sides of her children no matter what.
Do you know someone who has the attitude "Not my child, my child would never do anything like that, it's a pack of lies, etc. etc." That's the way she's always been. She'll cover up rather than expose the truth.
So, I'm sorry if my statements about cutting off contact with my grandmother seem harsh, cold, unfeeling. And it's quite possible that she might just want an ear to bend sometimes, but she has specifically asked me to involve myself in certain ways in her care over these past few years and particularly these past months. And that's rather impossible when my aunt and uncle are doing everything possible to shut me out simply because I've refused to force her to come and stay with me on the weekends.
My mother cut me off from many relatives who had always shown me nothing but love and affection when I was around the age of 13. After that, the abuse escalated. If I'd still been in contact with those relatives, might I have talked eventually and exposed the secrets my grandmother was trying so hard to hide? Maybe.
I took steps over the past year to reconcile with these relatives and have learned some astonishing things. We have a wonderful relationship despite a 24 year gap.
So when my aunt and uncle started preventing me from having access to my grandmother, it made me naturally suspicious. To me, it looks like they're trying to hide something.
I've been abused. And I fully understand that the victim can still harbor a sense of loyalty to the abuser because of the blood relationship. But it's my mother a child thinks. But it's my son the elderly mother thinks. I do understand that.
I have to weigh the pain it causes me to hear of her problems several times a week vs. the pain of being cut off from it. And I tell you honestly that when I made the decision to remove myself from this equation last week (before I learned of her being in the hospital) I felt a peace that I hadn't felt in months.
If that sounds like I'm punishing her, that's not the way it's intended. I've been assured by the family doctor, Adult Protective Services, and Social Services at the hospital today that she has her full mental capacities. They feel that she is fully capable of making her own decisions and that she is fully responsible for the consequences of those decisions.
I will not expose myself to further hostilities from my aunt and uncle. I will not listen to these ever-frequent tales of her deteriorating physical condition when it's been made painfully obvious to me that I have no right to do anything to help. I will not expose my husband and children to the pain of a court battle to force the right to help. And I will not listen to her accuse me of abandoning her as she has done when I've said it upsets me to keep hearing of these things several times a week.
Honestly, after all this, the less contact I have with her, the better off I feel.
Have you read this entire thread? If so, then you know that aside from the phone call informing me of my grandmother's hospitalization at her request I might add, that my aunt and uncle want nothing to do with me, no communication, nothing.
BTW, I did check during her hospitalization and I'm still blocked from calling her.
I'd be more than happy to give you their side of the story if I knew what it was. I have nothing to hide in this and am being as honest as I possibly can.
If it sounds as if my perceptions are skewed, that is most likely because they will not give their side or work towards any sort of reconcilation.
I was fully prepared to write a letter to my uncle and was beginning to feel calm enough to do so until I found out she was in the hospital. Time might help that as well again, but not if I keep talking to my grandmother and hearing bad things from her.
When I asked my grandmother what on earth is the basis for all this hostility towards me I get but 1 answer: Because I stopped taking her on the weekends. According to my aunt (via my grandmother), that's it, nothing else.
So unless they speak to me somehow, I can't tell you anything more than that.
Again, I have nothing to hide here. If I ever hear that there was anything more behind this whole thing than that, you'll know.
And if you have any suggestions as to how I can hear their side when they won't talk to me, then I'll be glad to hear them.
posted on August 8, 2001 01:51:34 PM new
Yep, I've read the whole thing.
Have you considered that you are blocked, by them, from speaking to her because your grandmother is telling them some of the same things that she is telling you about them? You know, playing both sides and all that?
You expect them to want contact with you now, after you reported them to a state agency for neglect, bringing an investigation upon them? Be serious.
And now you're accusing them of doing this, that, and the other, for financial gain. Without proof, I might add.
posted on August 8, 2001 01:53:10 PM new
Oh good. I don't always do well at expressing myself via the written word. Glad I didn't offend.
Sounds like you've pretty much come to the stage where you know what is best for you and your family. Seems to me like you have found your life was more stress free without dealing with her. (The load off your shoulders part.) And now that the doctors, etc. have evaluated your grandmother and feel as they do, I hope that brings some comfort to you.
I had a very loving relationship with my grandparents so I could never see myself letting anything/anyone come between us. But there wasn't all this turmoil and background that you've had to deal with either. I too was abused by a step-father and my grandparents didn't step in either. We lived in different states, but they knew what was going on. They, too, didn't feel it was their place to step in. Maybe it's a generational issue? But they did open their home to me each and every summer until I was able to leave home and take care of myself. They offered a protected, safe haven for me.
I believe hurt causes most relationships to deteriorate/end. I would just hate to see your grandmother pass without you having resolved some of your issues with her. Maybe you don't feel the need to do so. And that's okay too.
I did feel a great need to resolve my issues with my mother, about what I perceived she allowed to happen to me. I held much resentment towards her. Before she passed I was able to share my pain/hurt/etc. and she was able to share her side of the issues. She asked for my forgiveness and I was able to finally able to truly offer it to her. Some people aren't fortunate to get to that point, things remain unsettled forever.
I really believe feelings are neither right or wrong. They're who we are. If you see something differently than I do, it doesn't mean you're seeing it the wrong way...just your way.
Also, I've come to learn, over the years, that when we do something because we think we 'should', we're not being fair to ourselves. It needs to be something we want to do. No matter what the 'it' is.
I wish you healing and peace. Only you can be the judge of how that happens. Best of luck, sincerely.
Yes, I've considered that she's been playing both sides. And, if so, then I feel that my aunt and uncle did wrong by taking these hostile actions against me before trying to hear my side of the story. Yet you seem to feel justified in condemning me although I'm not the one who started the hostilities first.
Oh, and from what the caseworker at APS said, I wasn't discussed at all during her conversation with my aunt or her meeting with my grandmother. The focus was strictly on finding her another place to live without regard to the why of it. So my aunt and uncle were not given any of the details behind why I called them and asked them to investigate. So your insinuation that they are not speaking to me because of my accusations to APS is totally without foundation.
Also, I didn't report them for neglect, but abuse. The neglect part was only mentioned to me today by the APS.
Guess you need to read a little more carefully.
Linda_K,
I am glad that my grandmother is recovering from this so well.
I was able to have a better relationship with my mother for the last 10 years of her life which enabled me to care for her when she was dying of cancer. Still not exactly a healthy one, but somewhat better.
I think that people of my grandparents generation believe strongly that you keep family problems within the family at all costs. I think that's hogwash, especially when those problems involve something as serious as child abuse and drug abuse.
And actually, whether anyone else agrees with julesy or not, I have to say that when someone has an elderly person in their care and that elderly person keeps calling a third party and complaining about hostile treatment, and then they try to block all communications with the third party, it makes them look guilty in my eyes. Had they maintained open communications or reopened communications with me, I would never have reported them.
Most of my relatives think I should have just ignored her/them and gone on with my life instead of reporting them and getting dragged further into this mess. I don't know. Maybe that would have been the better thing to do. But it didn't feel like the right thing at the time.
But it's feeling like the right thing to do now. I just have to move on from this as best I can and do what gives me the most peace.
posted on August 8, 2001 03:18:17 PM new
Based on reading what had been reported, Not unfounded the Grandmother indicated problems, communication were cut off by the Uncle...you did the right and the only thing that could be done under the cirumstances. Because, you cared about your Grandmother's well being.
Julesy Remember it is always wise to walk a mile in the other persons moccasins before criticizing, then if they get mad, at least you'll be a mile away and they will be barefoot!
[ edited by ZiLvY on Aug 8, 2001 03:24 PM ]
You very obviously feel I did wrong, and you have a right to your opinion.
Should I have continued to let my aunt dictate to me that I had to take my grandmother each weekend?
Should I have told my grandmother that she had to continue coming to my home even though she didn't want to?
Should I have told her to "Shut Up! as my uncle told me to do when she began to get hostile with me?
I could have done all those things, but I think I would have been in a bad situation anyway as a result, just of a different sort. Sure, my aunt and uncle would still be talking to me and they'd love me for continuing to take her off their hands each weekend. But then my grandmother would hate me. And that was part of the reason she was becoming hostile towards me and she was also taking it out on my kids and I wasn't going to stand for it any longer.
Besides, I never made it a secret that I was the one who reported them. So I don't know why you think I was trying to avoid responsibility for that. I was actually quite open about it before and after doing it.
So you're reading things into this that aren't there and somehow trying to make it appear as though I've done something to deserve all of this. I've said from the beginning that if I have done something wrong, I need to know what that is or I can't correct my mistake or apologize for it. Their continued hostilies and silence speak more loudly to their guilt than mine, I think.
ZiLvY,
Thank you for thinking I did the right thing. It's true that I have no proof that a lot of things my grandmother said was true. But if they were all lies, I figured that my aunt and uncle would have been willing to talk to me to deny the things she's accused them of saying and doing. Innocent people have nothing to hide, I say.
Oh, but I do have some proof, but I thought I'd posted this earlier. But since someone here thinks I'm making unfounded accusations it might bear repeating.
I have the note in my possession that proves my aunt refused to mail the anniversary card my grandmother asked her to mail twice. It says "I positively refuse to mail this. Do not give it to me again." My grandmother gave that to me with my anniversary card on the weekend she spent with us in July.
That is proof enough that my grandmother has been the victim of some nastiness over there.
posted on August 8, 2001 04:06:55 PM new
Oh, another thing. When my grandmother was taken to the hospital, she was put in the Coronary Care Unit under suspicion of having had a heart attack. That's understandable given her symptoms and age.
Now, wouldn't it be a matter of common sense and decency to notify my grandmother's sisters and brother that she'd taken ill and was in the hospital? After all, she might easily have been close to passing on.
But no, my aunt and uncle did not notify any other of her relatives. I would not have been notified had she not asked them to. And for the record, my aunt and uncle have no feud with anyone other than myself.
Yesterday I called one of my grandmother's sisters and left the message with the name of the hospital and her room number. I found out today (when my grandmother was still in the hospital) that not only did this sister call her there yesterday, but also her brother. So her sister obviously passed on the message to their brother. I'm glad I told someone else and I wonder how her sister felt about having to hear it from me rather than the people who are entrusted with her care.
My aunt and uncle obviously don't feel that any of her other relatives have any right to know what's going on with her. Isn't that really rather rotten? And she talks to this sister every week!
