spazmodeus
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posted on July 11, 2001 11:27:49 AM
There was some disagreement in the now-locked "Obituary" thread over an article about a black, 80-something custodian and groundskeeper at Millsaps College.
Here's the url:
http://www.millsaps.edu/news_events/releases/may/joelee.htm
One poster seemed to believe that the article reeked of racism. However, I read the article in question and just don't see it. Everything said of Joe Lee Gibson in that article could as easily have been said about him if he came from a poor white background rather than a poor black background.
What I saw when I read it was an article about a hardworking man who survived hard times -- desperate times -- and who kept his family provided for and who put his children through college as the result of his determination and sixty-five year commitment to his job.
The fact that he's black seems incidental. Throughout, the article stays focused on the fact that he is a hard working man and devoted to his family.
Poverty and deprivation aren't exclusive to black people, in the north or south. Millsaps and other colleges across the U.S. have people working for them who never had an opportunity to attend classes themselves.
I'm not saying there isn't racism in the South. But the article in question doesn't seem to be an example of it.
The poster who was so critical of the article seems to have let her own mindset color her interpretation. Almost as if: article about black custodian + white college + Jackson, Mississippi = racism. At one point, she mistakenly wrote:
And, why does this reporter describe a human being as clean, polished and waxed...as sharp as the grass that he mows...?
Read between the lines. It's a sad case.
Before reading between the lines, I would recommend reading the actual lines. The reporter did not describe Joe Lee Gibson as "polished and waxed."
The reporter was talking about the man's baseball cap, as seen in the following quote:
Greeting a campus visitor on a hot spring morning, he's wearing a crisp, beige work shirt, clean blue jeans and an Atlanta Braves baseball cap that looked as if it had been polished and waxed.
Like I said above, I would never dispute that racism is alive and well in the South (and everywhere else, for that matter). But this article just doesn't seem to be guilty of that.
[ edited by spazmodeus on Jul 11, 2001 11:29 AM ]
edited to change "what" to "one" and to remove a redundant "throughout"
[ edited by spazmodeus on Jul 11, 2001 01:20 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on July 11, 2001 11:39:20 AM
It's the mindset. If you say something nice about a black person you are either talking down because you don't expect that to be the case or you are not really meaning what you say - it is arcastic. Because the reader does not like YOU. You could say the sky is blue and they will find fault with it. Only people with the correct certified politics should be licensed to comment on minorities. Jesse Jackson would be happy to issue the license for you. Just go stand on a street corner with a video camera and he will be there in about 10 minutes. He is an example of the other side of the coin - you can't point out the fact that he is a jackass because that would be racist. Safer not to say anything good or bad.....
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AntiqueParrot
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posted on July 11, 2001 12:27:09 PM
I see no mention of his race or ethnic background in the article, just a photo.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 11, 2001 12:46:40 PM
To me the description of Gibson given in the article portrayed a man with pride in himself & his position. A man who loved his job so much he refused promotions. A man who, though lacking education himself, had put all of his children through college.
Many adults, no matter what era they grew up in, are illiterate for one reason or another. Would accusations of racism & cries of "shame!" have been hurled if the picture shown with article had shown a white man?
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inside
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posted on July 11, 2001 01:06:57 PM
I read no racism in that article. I read about a hard working, honorable, dedicated, respected and loved man.
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krs
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posted on July 11, 2001 01:46:30 PM
Nope, not a word of racism. Not unless you see it as a piece of show, a display, or an attempt to display just how non-racist they are. "Look! See! We have given honor to a black man (hurry up and see if we can get this on the news!).
Oh, yes, he earned the honor, but he earned it by perseverence in the face of the deepest sort of racism. He "Yassir, I take care of dat for, you see"'d his way to a plaque on the wall.
The poor guy had to Uncle Tom his whole life through.
"Look! See! We needed to make a show, get old Joe--he'll play long. and oh, get Billy to make one of those plaques he makes. Not too expensive though, hear?"
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spazmodeus
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:00:35 PM
You're editorializing on facts not in evidence, krs.
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toke
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:01:13 PM
"Nope, not a word of racism. Not unless you see it as a piece of show, a display, or an
attempt to display just how non-racist they are. "Look! See! We have given honor to a
black man (hurry up and see if we can get this on the news!)."
Is that how you see it, krs?
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spazmodeus
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:01:51 PM
Did I say facts not in evidence? I should have said pure speculation.
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krs
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:05:19 PM
Yes, that's how I see it. The point of it is to NOT have "facts in evidence". This kind of crap happens every day all over the country.
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jt-2007
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:14:47 PM
Another remarkable person worth mentioning is Katherine Lefolt who served quietly as college hostess for slightly less time than Joe Lee Gibson. She was recognized in an equal fashion about 6 years ago at her retirement so I can no longer pull up the article. She retired well into her 80's. She served as a bridesmaid in Eudora Welty's wedding and has been a life time friend of Welty. I believe that her name appears on that same plaque alongside Joe Lee.
Southern Living carried an article about Welty's wedding (Great Southern Weddings was the title, I believe) some years back and her (young) photo appeared in that article. I don't know what issue it was. I would like to have a copy. If anyone ever runs across it please let me know.
T
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inside
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:24:38 PM
It is sad that any recognition for a black person is immediately put down and declared rascism.
It is a shame that some on this board can only see Joe with pity for being black instead of allowing him to be honored for being a good person. He's worked hard his whole life and raised a fine family instead of saying "great job" there are those here who only see him as an uncle Tom. I say those are the true rascist for they can not see past his color.
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toke
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:27:22 PM
I guess the alternative was never to have given him an award...lest it seem condescending and racist. Sadly, Joe Gibson would have missed the all the joy and validation that award gave him.
Personally, I'm glad to see him and his family pleased and honored. Since I wasn't there, I'll refrain from accusing him of being an "Uncle Tom".
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bunnicula
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:29:35 PM
And if it had been a white janitor being honored & written about? Or if it had been a "black" newspaper (or a northern one) doing the article?
The thing is, that there are thousands of articles similar to this one every year across the country. The person being written about might be black, or female, or handicapped, or poor or old. Are articles such as these "self-serving"? Racist? Sexist?
I don't think so. They merely give recognition.
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krs
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:06:25 PM
Note that inside has called me a racist.
Sorry, you all, but I haven't lived a proteted PC life.
Is that an expression of racism, or is it an exception to racism? It wasn't racist to let Jackie Robinson play big league baseball, it was an exception to racism which in and of itself is racism.
Now we have a black man who's name is entered along with a (presumably) white woman on the plaque. Isn't that fine? Oh my, yes, that's a fine thing indeed.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:11:10 PM
krs: if no picture had been displayed (the only way a reader of the article would know he's black, since the text doesn't say so), what would your reaction have been to it? How 'bout if the picture had shown a white man? Asian? Mexican?
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toke
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:13:18 PM
As a side note...if anyone were to tell an extremely dear friend of mine that she got to her present position in life, or received the accolades she has, because of "Uncle Tomism" she would knock them into next week. Scratch that...next year.
Talk about racism and condescension. I fear for the hope of a color blind society when the liberals here are saying such things.
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inside
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:16:24 PM
Don't worry KRS, I suspect that you will get me moderated for my statement despite the fact that I did not mention you. That is the way it works around here. But then we all know that don't we.
Nice to know how you feel about old black men who work hard all their lives.
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Hjw
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:18:42 PM
This is not the kind of recognition that Joe Lee Gibson deserved. He deserved a chance to attend school. He deserved to know how to read and write. But he spent over half of his life in a mean, racist and segregated society. We should all agree that this is callous mistreatment that no human being should experience.
Giving the poor guy a plaque when he is 86 years old is not a sufficient reward.
The alternative, toke, was to give him what he deserved when he needed it. The state of Mississippi and the college failed Joe Gibson and this plaque is too little, too late.
The other thread was locked...
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=100873
Helen
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toke
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:26:23 PM
We live in the real world Helen. Times have changed. This was a fine recognition for Mr. Gibson...today. Past inequities surely exist...but cannot be erased...no matter how much we all wish it.
He deserves recognition and he got it. I'm happy for him.
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pattaylor
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:26:43 PM
Everyone,
This is a sensitive subject. Please leave off the personal comments and discuss the topic itself, not your fellow members.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Pat
[email protected]
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sulyn1950
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:34:13 PM
Oddly enough, I see both arguments here!
On the one hand, they made NO mention of his race....didn't have to they had a picture.
On the other hand they made several mentions to the fact he did not know how to read or write.....was that absolutely necessary to show tribute to this man and his dedication to his job?
I also did find it a bit much to make reference to his spiffy clean appearance-but for a different reason. Seemed to indicate to me the author felt most "handymen" (black or white) would be rumpled and dirty or that a laborer in general would have no "pride in himself" (I believe mention was made to the pride thing in the article).
I also know there are those that will never be colorblind. To the good or to the bad.
My mother told me once "as long as we see a difference in race, there will be a difference in race."
Don't really know the solution to that one.
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spazmodeus
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:36:08 PM
Don't know about the rest of you, but my family tree has people in it who never learned to read or write because they had to go work as children in textile factories because it was the only way their families could afford to survive in this country. None of my grandparents went to college; I'm not even sure if all of them finished high school -- again due to the Depression and having to go to work to support their families.
I see little difference in their experience and that of Joe Lee Gibson. All of them did what they had to in order to survive, and sadly it meant that some things, like education, had to be sacrificed along the way.
Except I don't see anybody crying "racism" in the case of my ancestors, even though the circumstances were similar to Mr. Gibson's.
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Hjw
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:36:51 PM
Bunnicula,
If this article pictured a white man, for example, my reaction would be similar. I would want to know how did we fail this individual who has lived for 86 years without learning how to read and write, especially in view of the fact that the honoree grew up and lived all of his life on a college campus.
Helen
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bobbi355
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:39:05 PM
. That is the way it works around here. But then we all know that don't we
Yup.
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Hjw
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:40:17 PM
It's most unusual for a reporter to describe an individual as wearing
*clean* pants.
Are your pants clean, spazmodeous???
Now, do you see how inappropriate the description is???
Helen
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spazmodeus
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:41:46 PM
On the other hand they made several mentions to the fact he did not know how to read or write.....was that absolutely necessary to show tribute to this man and his dedication to his job?
It was a writer's device, that's all -- to highlight the contrast between an uneducated laborer and the institution of higher education where he is employed. The reporter would have done the same thing had Joe Lee Gibson been white.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:42:40 PM
sulyn1950: On the other hand they made several mentions to the fact he did not know how to read or write.....was that absolutely necessary to show tribute to this man and his dedication to his job?
Perhaps not *necessary*...but it does increase one's admiration of of the man who has accomplished all that he has--and all without being able to read or write. So many people of whatever background or color would use it as an excuse *not* to succeed.
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toke
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:46:21 PM
Helen...
The man is a groundskeeper! It's an interesting fact that he maintains a spiffy appearance, in spite of his work.
When my husband works in the yard, he definitely does not have clean pants. If he did, it would be remarkable...and worth mention. You can trust me on this one...
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Hjw
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posted on July 11, 2001 03:46:34 PM
bunnicula
He endured.
Helen
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