posted on June 20, 2001 01:18:15 PM new
This thread has been approved by AW moderation staff. Thank you for this opportunity.
I would like to announce beta testing of a new free cooperative auction site. The site uses a free auction script and free hosting, and will remain free for buyers and sellers. The purpose of the site is to demonstrate how co-ops can be effective.
The site will go live soon, but right now we need help testing and evaluating the software, and especially category suggestions. We can support 40-50 categories. More may be added soon, as new addons for the basic script are evaluated.
During beta testing, all listings and bids are non-binding. Please join us in creating a real, cooperative alternative to eBay for OUR benefit. Again, this site will remain free. All comments and suggestions are welcome. If you have specific questions about the free auction site, I will be happy to answer them here.
posted on June 20, 2001 06:43:22 PM new
Hi Twinsoft!
Thanks for posting. Thanks also for organizing the site. It seems to have the makings of a really fantastic opportunity and I have already registered.
Some questions come do to mind about the "will remain free" vs. "co-op" part. I think I may be part of a pretty jaded crowd here, after having watched Paypal go from "always free" to NOT free, and Yahoo go from completely free to unreasonably priced.
I guess my point is, there are a lot of "free" sites out there right now. What will distinguish this site from the other currently free sites? What will prevent people from listing travel scam auctions and the like? Where will long-term funding come from for the site? I think these are valid concerns.
To me there's a big difference between a free site and a co-op site. I really don't mind paying fees, I just want them to be reasonable fees, you know what I mean? I want to make sure that any site I become seriously involved with stays financially healthy, and sticks around for awhile. At the same time, I don't want to be an inconsequential entity, a runner-up in importance to stockholders.
Please don't think I am trying to pick you apart here, because I am just wondering. I sincerely believe that your intentions are good and I have to say that I see eye to eye with you on most of the other co-op threads where I've seen your posts. (And actually on most other issues too now that I'm stopping to think it over.)
Again, thanks for your efforts, and I'm looking forward to seeing your response to my questions.
posted on June 20, 2001 07:18:13 PM newSome questions come do to mind about the "will remain free" vs. "co-op" part. I think I may be part of a pretty jaded crowd here, after having watched Paypal go from "always free" to NOT free, and Yahoo go from completely free to unreasonably priced.
I guess my point is, there are a lot of "free" sites out there right now. What will distinguish this site from the other currently free sites? What will prevent people from listing travel scam auctions and the like? Where will long-term funding come from for the site? I think these are valid concerns.
Hi, CAgrrl. Thanks for asking. I believe your questions (especially the first) are shared by many.
So what does "will remain free" mean? The auction site software is open-source, provided free by Everysoft.com and released under the GNU Public License. The site is hosted on a free server. So there are no costs associated with maintaining the site. The site will remain free until such time as a co-op is actually formed and decides (if they do decide) to charge a membership fee, listing fees, etc. That decision will be made by a cooperative membership, not by me. It may be quite some time before that happens, and if it happens, I don't know whether the site will remain as is (with the co-op establishing residence elsewhere) or whether the co-op will work with the existing site. There is no reason why the site shouldn't remain free indefinitely.
The goal here is not to create a free site for the auction community, but to build a co-op. However, there will be no requirements of any kind, no demand for volunteers, no demand for payments, etc. Those who wish to use the site may do so without obligation, but I hope users will take the time to share their ideas. That is really the "fee." Tell us how you think we can make the site better. I believe that the co-op philosophy is the best way to unite auction sellers, and I think that as sellers become familiar with that philosophy, support will grow by itself.
I will address the second part of your questions later. Right now I have to run and pick up my kids.
posted on June 20, 2001 09:51:42 PM new
OK. So far, so good.
More questions: Does this co-op come complete with members from a former co-op group, or are you starting from scratch? Do you think there will be a "membership drive" at any point in the forseeable future? What is being done to get the word out?
posted on June 20, 2001 09:59:16 PM new
Hi, again.
What will distinguish this site from the other currently free sites?
Not to be evasive, but I don't know much about other free sites. I don't trust them any more than the big boys. Yes, I'm jaded too. What will make this site unique is that it will be run by the members, cooperatively to the greatest extent possible. I qualify that because in order to be a co-op we will need a bona fide membership that does not exist yet. However, we can discuss issues publicly (there is a message board) and take polls or votes.
Until a co-op, or even a quorum of volunteers can be established, I will have to set arbitrary policies such as what happens when someone bids on 20 auctions and then refuses to pay. The site "rules" will not be etched in stone and will be subject to change. If enough people feel a certain way, I will go along with the majority. I don't have any more say than anyone else, really, though I will be administering the site in the beginning.
That differentiates OASC from other "free" sites. The members will set the policies. Eventually, I hope the site will produce a real, working co-op.
What will prevent people from listing travel scam auctions and the like?
I'm not sure what you mean by scam. Illegal items are not allowed, and certain types of items are also prohibited, according to the host. There is a feedback system in place. Policy will have to be established regarding feedback and suspension. I can tell you that since this is a free site, I don't plan on spending my days adjudicating beefs between members. If there are enough complaints or enough negative feedback, a user will be suspended but there is no firm policy in place at this time.
I would rather members themselves discuss these issues and develop their own policies. From the input I've received so far, members expect a high level of ethics and performance, and that seems reasonable to me.
Where will long-term funding come from for the site?
At present there is no need for funding. I am more concerned with facilitating a discussion right now that doing any financial "hard coding." Although the site won't support 100,000 users, it is enough to get started. If funding is required (for example to purchase a better quality software program) the money can come from the customer base in the form of membership fees, a fund raiser or voluntary donations. This is a grass-roots movement and I believe the funding should come from within. Certainly funding should not even be considered until a hard copy business plan is in place. We don't need it for now. The greater challenge will be getting 100 or 1000 online auction sellers to sit down at the collective table, discuss issues and come to terms.
I think it would be a mistake to hard-code expenses in at the start. There are ways of developing the co-op that are free or very cheap, and that is how we should get started. Dman has described a home-based network of sellers and I think his idea is very good. I would like to try his idea also and see how it works. There is no reason not to explore several models to see if they can fit our needs.
posted on June 20, 2001 10:57:11 PM new
HOORAY!! we are dancing in the woods of Oregon Finally ...need help plenty will be happy to help a site run by people THAT UNDERSTAND AUCTIONS..wow..yes!thanks
now a question..not a bunch of rules..right? how about email addy & link to my website in the description??..very important to us..
many people with sites link to & from their auctions & it Helps both..just good business..
thank you!! (thanks a/w..too)
posted on June 20, 2001 11:43:41 PM new
Hi, Timetravelers. Thank you for asking that question. It does come up in discussion a lot.
Most people are very upset with eBay's policy regarding links and off-site sales. As you say, links to your web site does help sales.
I am strongly against links to off-site sales. It draws customers away from the co-op. Listing at the co-op site is free (or nearly free) so why take business away? List your items at the co-op. The customer that you bring to the site might bid on my items; likewise my customer might buy your items too.
The analogy I made elsewhere (sorry to repeat myself) is that if 500 sellers bring 10 customers to the co-op, then customer base is increased by 5000. However, if 500 sellers each take 10 customers away, then the customer base is decreased by 5000.
In the most extreme case, if we are not careful, we will have sellers listing at the co-op SOLELY to drive business to their web sites. Those sellers will use the co-op's free resources to take business away from the co-op; and that means taking business away from you and me.
I feel very strongly about this issue but at this time there is no policy regarding off-site links. You are free to advertise your web site. The customer base isn't there yet, so we have time to consider this and establish a fair and comfortable policy. (Personally, I think non-promotional email links are okay.)
posted on June 21, 2001 12:31:09 AM newDoes this co-op come complete with members from a former co-op group, or are you starting from scratch?
CAgrrl, you ask some very tough questions. If you mean will we all be wearing different team uniforms, I would say no. I also want to add that a lot of good ideas have already been presented. There are hundreds of posts on our message board and many of them are brilliant. So we are not starting from scratch.
The other side of the coin is that it is easy to lose sight of cooperative principles when money is on the table. From past experience I think I should be watching that problem closer.
We began talking about building a co-op here at AW six months ago. In that time several groups have made bona fide attempts. Rather than see those attempts as complete failures, I would rather see them as partial successes. With each attempt we learn from our mistakes and move forward.
Do you think there will be a "membership drive" at any point in the forseeable future?
Ummm ... let me check my crystal ball. LOL. As I hinted above, I have seen better software packages than the one we are using. (Though what we have now is adequate.) If this co-op receives serious attention, I think that in return we should try to provide our customers with the best interface possible (within our means). With 1000 members, that might mean each member chips in $1 or $2. I do not forsee the need for a membership drive for quite some time, though I would not rule it out. A lot more planning needs to take place first. In the meantime, we have a functioning web site and a discussion board so I think we are in good shape.
(The software we are using is simple, but it is also open source and many programmers have made this free auction script their hobby. New improvements and addons are being released all the time that anyone can use. It is really a sweet deal.)
posted on June 21, 2001 03:39:17 AM new
yes, you hit the nail on the proverbial head when you said if I was wondering "will we all be wearing different team uniforms". Just trying to come to understand a bit more about exactly what's going on.
I think I know where you personally stand as far as WHAT sellers will be selling on the site. (Hard to tell whether the rest of the group, when/if, will agree; we can only hope, right?) I couldn't entirely get behind the vintage and collectibles site because my product mix includes things that aren't vintage/collectible. And the bookseller's co-op, while exciting to me, is limiting because I sell more than just books. So obviously I would give up some things that are important to me if I were to commit myself to getting involved with either of those projects. It is hard to forsee what, if anything, would be the sacrifices to make by getting involved in a group that has yet to be formed- which is probably the only thing about the entire project that makes me a bit uncomfortable- but it has a lot of potential. So count me in.
As far as expenses go, well, I know they will probably be able to be put off awhile- which is a wonderful thing as far as getting started goes. However, in order to advertise and create a stable site that supports the thousands of buyers and sellers a successful site needs, it seems that funding will be an eventual necessity.
Just to put my 2¢ worth in about member's links- I can understand your concerns about links drawing business away from the co-op, but I honestly think that the ability to link is kind of a necessity in a way. I say so because I think that "Joe and Nancy Shopper" need to be able to get a handle on who exactly they are dealing with when they come to our site to shop. When they see a fantastic, legitimate web site set up, complete with shopping cart and 30-day return policy (for example) they achieve a bit of re-assurance that they're not going to get ripped off by this person they're blindly sending their money to. Please believe me when I say I shop A LOT on Ebay and similar sites, and I ALWAYS check out "about me" pages and web sites (not to mention feedback) of the people I deal with. I haven't bought much of anything off the web sites I've checked out. Truthfully, a bunch of the web sites haven't even had items for sale- they've been informational about the kinds of things I buy- dolls, books, craft items, etc.
I don't think the way ebay initially had things set up was such a bad idea. They allowed links but took steps to safeguard that people weren't just using ebay strictly for advertising, by making sure that nothing offered on ebay was priced higher than on the web sites, and by making sure that each auction was an auction for an actual item. (There were former Yahoo sellers who would set up auctions that didn't actually contain an item- the sole purpose of the "auction" was to a) advertise a web site, or b) solicit paypal referral bonuses. A pitfall to watch for with a free site. One of many pitfalls actually- I can help clue you in to others also as I think of them, having done a lot of "yahoo-ing".)
posted on June 21, 2001 06:37:56 AM new
I hope this isn't another one of those Gold's scenarios. That one it seemed to have got stuck in beta testing forever! I recall placing several bids there then finding out that it was a test site and that all of my bids were meaningless
posted on June 21, 2001 10:59:10 AM new
Hi, RB. The beta testing notice is on every page, but it can be overlooked. I already had one member send me a bill! Oops.
The site has been up for less than a week. I'm stil adding many new features to the basic script.
Right now, in addition to testing the new features, I'd like to get suggestions for categories. I'll be adding some new categories shortly, but I want to make sure as many interests as possible are represented.
We won't be in beta testing forever. So far no (serious) bugs have been reported, so hopefully we will go live very soon.
posted on June 21, 2001 11:12:46 AM new
CAgrrl, funding will eventually be necessary, but how much and how the money will be spent is something we'll need to consider carefully first. It's easy to find new and creative ways to spend money, but the real challenge will be getting 100 auction sellers to sit down collectively and share ideas.
I think we should avoid "hard-coding" costs into our budget. For example, hiring a site manager, webmaster, support crew, etc., would create a fixed expense that we would need to meet every month. Before we allocate funding we should act responsibly and work up a business plan, which we do not have yet.
A lot of people think that advertising will be one of our biggest expenses. There are many effective ways to lower the cost of advertising. For example, an article in a major newspaper or a mention on the nightly news would boost our membership base considerably. We might find ourselves with more business than we know what to do with. I think we can get plenty of free press, but I'd like to wait until the site is functioning smoothly before making any public announcements.
There are many resources available to us. For example, publications like TAG Notes and AuctionBytes (and of course AuctionWatch) have a circulation of thousands of users. If we can enlist their support it will be a great benefit at no cost.
You and I are at total opposite views when it comes to this. I Personally believe that by allowing Links to other sites - most people will want to also Link to the site that allows this link. It is only good business to allow your customers to see everything you have for sale.
I also believe that most auction buyers prefer to take their chances with a bid for an item, vs. buying for retail on someone's site. I also know that if I go to a site and find something that isn't listed in auction -- and is reasonably priced -- I would be willing to buy. As a seller, I also realize how many chances you take by listing an item without reserve, and I also realize that reserves are not popular. So if I have an item I am not willing to take a chance with - I want to sell direct, and getting people to my site is very important. Links are very Important -- If you remember early in the Internet's life, linking made the Internet Grow to the monster it has now become -- Greed is what has ruined it -- not Links.
JC
Founding Member
LibertyBid.com
www.libertybid.com
posted on June 21, 2001 02:16:49 PM new
twinsoft- agreed, TAG is a great place to start. Good thinking! Have you been able to run all this by Rosalinda? I am not familiar with auctionbyte. What is it? worth checking out?
posted on June 21, 2001 03:04:31 PM newCAgrrl, I haven't talked with Rosalinda lately but I know she is supportive of the co-op movement. AuctionBytes is an auction-related internet newsletter. I'm not sure if I can post their URL here but I'm pretty sure you can figure it out. Take a guess. AuctionBytes also posts here frequently. They are an excellent source of information and auction news. I have spoken with them and they seem interested, though I haven't made any official press release yet.
Landofthings, I am just about the only one who doesn't think links to outside sales are okay for the co-op. I know that and I will continue to explain and try to bring other people around to seeing things the way I do. That may never happen.
What is normally "good business" practice for any commercial enterprise is not necessarily good for a co-op. The more customers (buyers) we can bring INTO the co-op, the better for everyone. If one seller is bringing customers in, and another seller is drawing customers out, the idea won't work. Since listings are free, it only makes sense to list the items at the co-op.
Now if you want a personal "About Me"-type page I think that's a very good. And I wouldn't go so far as eBay has, to prohibit sellers from making ANY outside sales (if the customer contacts the seller first) but once we start allowing links off-site, we get into a whole gray area of just how bad is it for the co-op? Maybe buyers will view the web site, come back to the co-op and buy from the seller there. Maybe we'll have a case like one seller here at AW who bragged that he had sucked 90% of the bidders out of his category on eBay. Whatever the case, there will surely be individuals who take advantage of the co-op's free listing policy to herd buyers off-site, and that is bad business for the co-op. Some mechanism should be in place to prevent this.
CAgrrl, I agree with what you said that an attractive web site demonstrates professionality to buyers. But you could do that with an About Me page. The shopping cart on your web site is not what will convince buyers to buy from you at the co-op.
We have to remember that we are working together collectively. Each of us should have an interest in the success of other co-op members BECAUSE IT IS IN OUR OWN BEST INTEREST to do so. We should be bringing buyers INTO the group, not taking them out, otherwise it will quickly turn into GhostTown.com.
posted on June 21, 2001 05:47:25 PM new
HI All The up and running Co-op site Twinsoft has up and working is a small part of a larger Idea.
The Idea Started as Interested sellers Putting up there Own Auction sites building and starting it with there seller, Dealer and buyer friends most likely in there hobby Niche or categories they know best.
Each of these sites get up and running with Registered users.
This in its self not being the co-op its self, But the Co-op being formed by these auction sites registered users.
This way you Really would have A seller owned Auction Co-operative.
Trust is easier to Come by as Each site will be Founded and created on a local level Each one investing any $$ necessary in there own web site or computer NO Fund raising necessary as a auction site can be built with as little as $0 start up cost to under $60 for the programs and services to build the server & Auction site even on your own computer There is a learning curve for all here but anything really worth doing Takes time and work.
its my feeling that even if it could be possible for a large group to chip in to build one big cover all server most would want to learn and Under stand what there money will be paying for and will want to be sure the person they are sending it too really Knows what they are doing !?!?!
I just want to say I brought up this Idea as a way to form a Auction co-op How ever it is not my Co-op I want no credit for it I don't want to be its poster Child or organizer.
I am throwing this Idea out here and I believe the Auction Community its self person by person group by group will pick up on it and it will start to Grow and snowball on its own.
I believe a Co-Op Built this way will be able to self govern its self much easier, As far as if it will Remain Totally Free well I think in the End everyone really Knows That Nothing can be totally free.
Even if the software used is free if its hosted with a web host there will be fees for this if you build The server on your own computer there will be cost for Domain names and a 24/7 internet connection be it DSL, ISDN , cable or T1 and computer up keep there will be costs that will catch up over time.
The Co-op its self can be a more Expensive legal worked out deal or a simple written agreement as to What the minimum software and server requirement are to become part of the Co-operative network and the Co-ops terms of service for its Registered users sellers and buyers all sites must meet and agree too.
Like I said I am not nor will I ever been a spokes person or leader for this Idea but I think any membership drive this Idea has should be looking for people interested in putting together and building co-op auction sites.
the Auction sites can be linked together in many different ways if you Want to see one of the many ways Take a look at reston rays Make us #1 thread and his discussion of a auction site search portal these sites can be linked through Universal Search Universal Feed back and Registration so users can choose to register to sell and buy at any number of the sites from one to all of them.
Think of it like This each auction site is a category or group of niche categories, each ran buy sellers and dealers who know there market and hobby well. Now instead of having a huge site like ebay With thousands of categories and tons more sub and sub-sub categories you have many smaller site with a few categories each searchable on its own or through universal search.
The cost of running even 200 or 500 of these small type auction sites is far lower then running one big site like ebay each site can be run by a few volenteer with the admin password each will be easier to watch and find illegal and bogus listings.
This basic auction software is far easier to use there will be less confusion with users as how to list and launch auctions the software has less baggage its not bloated so its far faster then a heavy Ebay type auction and there is more then one server so if one goes down the rest of then will still be up and running.
posted on June 21, 2001 06:19:53 PM new
Hi, Rich. A lot of people seem to think that smaller specialty sites would attract both more sellers and more buyers. I admit that it has a kind of "built-in" appeal.
I collect old records and I know you do too. In fact, I'm thinking about parting out my collection because it is taking up so much space. A specialty co-op site would be perfect for that: a bunch of record collectors putting up their collection. It could be called www.recycled-records.com or something like that. Something like that could be perfect for buyers and sellers as well.
Someone else suggested a web ring of co-op sites. From an organizational standpoint, rounding up a bunch of smaller co-ops via a portal or search database might be easier then one big humongous site trying to serve 1000s of diverse sellers. Sellers are an independent lot but they love to trade links and give each other awards. A reciprocal links page can build a lot of site traffic.
posted on June 21, 2001 08:23:23 PM new
Yeah after just about 6 months working, watching, Researching and posting Ideas about this Co-operative movement I have heard an seen many things that have convinced me that A group of smaller auction site formed founded then coming together in a co-operative way will put this Idea on workable scale.
It will be far easier for a small group of like you say Music dealers and hobbiests to work together and build a Good Niche site to market what they know best, Look at it this way lets take Books Who better to build and promote a Niche for books then a group of People who have been dealing in buying selling and trading books, a group of 5 to 30 book sellers together could have over 100 years or more of experience between them to draw from.
With all the time Listening posting and watching This Idea Another thing I have seen is that Seller Don't Credit them selves Enough For What they Know and have learned about there hobbies & Dealing over there Years, I here a lot of I think this is a great Idea but I don't think I have talent that would be useful in putting this together some even claim to own B&M antique stores ECT, I hear many right here at auction watch talking about investing in web hosting to build a online store Well what if instead you used this time to turn that store into an Auction site with the help of a few close friends you might talk and interact with right on this board or some others daily.
Take these Auction site and not only promote them on a local level like you would your store but Promote them on a higher Co-operative level as well banded together promoting these smaller site on a more national and international level.
everyone is all up in arm they can no longer can have there web site links and store links on ebay Well I'm not sure if website links would be allowed on your co-op auction site as this rule would be set by you and your users on a local level but the Co-op will allow you to advertise your Auction site link any Co-Op promotion would be promotion directly to your and every other Niche auction site.
With enough niche sites and enough interested users I think it is very possible the Co-operative could be the number one place to find most any thing anyone could want .
The thing is The Auction community its self has to step up and one person and group at a time putting there own sites together to build a co-op around Its definitely a hands on thing for self starters and for them who are self motivated.
The only lead anyone needs to take is in getting a small group together to get there own niche sites running . Single person organizing this will only get you a single Ideal from what I have seen, See a single persons Idea built Ebay same with the many other auction sites.
All say they are listing to there users but when its all boiled down there is one single person who built ebay and he has a vision his vision of Ebay and what it should be and will do what ever it takes to make it that way.
See any people who have been successful have things they share in common, First thing every Successful person has is that they Will Cut them selves off From all People who are negative right down to there family they just shut there negative words and thoughts right off they will even lose old friends with negative thoughts and word.
They Will Surround them selves with only people who have a positive attitude and out look about what they are doing, They will turn as many other Successful people they know in to there mentors learn all about them and how they got where they are.
Negitive people , Additudes , doubt and people who try to lower your self esteem will always hold you down and away succeeding if you allow it too.
Another is that Sucessfull People always have a vision and goals, Ideas can come from any where or anyone The rest must come from inside each of us.
posted on June 22, 2001 02:31:07 PM new
I can see benefits to smaller "niche" sites. There is one huge drawback though- many sellers don't specialize in just one thing. OR like me, they specialize loosely. (I sell books, dolls, craft supplies, and occasionally, clothes.) So am I going to have to join and promote 4 different co-ops to cover all my interests? I don't think I have the energy to do that. Now, what about buyers? Are THEY going to have to shop at multitudes of different sites to get what they need? I have my doubts...there are probably lots of buyers who only buy one type of item online, but I think there are a lot who buy whatever strikes their fancy after they've sat down to browse.
Just throwing out my opinion, not sure how relevant it is to the original topic of this discussion...
posted on June 22, 2001 03:46:14 PM new
Actually you might Register at 4 or 5 differnet auction sites afiliated with the co-op but there would only be one single co-operative to support or pormote.
its simple were talking about many auction site all doing business under the same banner Co-operative.
if a Group like this is put togeather Registration would be mostly handled from one portal site where you could register at one or as many niches as you Choose to sell or buy as well people would be able to register to just a single site.
no different then any other Co-operative take land O lakes for exsample there is many farmers and farm around the coutry all part of the land o lakes co-op each one is a differnt business working all selling under the Land O lakes name or banner.
posted on June 22, 2001 08:39:57 PM new
CAgrrl, a lot of posters seem to think that specialty sites are the only type of small auction site that can compete with eBay. Also, it might be easier to organize, because you would be dealing with a smaller membership base, and the members would more directly share the same interests. Specialty sites have other advantages too.
While there may be advantages to specialty sites, I do not wish to limit OASC to one type of item. The purpose of the site is to encourage cooperative discussion. Turning OASC into a specialty site would mean turning away a great percentage of possible supporters.
Any co-op is good news in my book. Perhaps we might see more "spin-offs" that can participate in the discussion, but decide to build another site to better suit their needs. OASC could benefit from that input. For example, Cathy participated in discussions at both OASC and Auctionpie before going on to form Vintage Marketplace. She made it clear from the start she wanted to build a specialty site for vintage collectibles. Everyone benefitted from Cathy's participation, and she bendfitted from our ideas also. That is the kind of cooperative progress I would hope to achieve.
posted on June 22, 2001 09:07:54 PM new
Dman- the idea that coops band together and do group advertising is real food for thought. I had a shop in a small town and advertising money was tight. But advertising is necessary for businesses of any size. Four of us got together and we kicked in for a billboard. We each got exposure for 1/4 of the cost. It's the way the advertising is put together that will benefit all.
The NCBA promotes members buying from fellow coops. Here is another possibility.
CAgrrl-a niche site doesn't have to be for just one thing like records.I think vintage covers a wide spectrum. So would entertainment or a Kids coop.I have narrowed down what I sell to beads, books, buttons and baubles(costume jewelry). Broad spectrum-but all collectible.
Steve talked earlier about a web ring of coops. His coop is different than the niche vintage coop I think will work. That doesn't make either of us wrong- it means we disagree. That doesn't mean as businesses we can't work together. If a vintage site isn't for them, I tell people to try any of the other coops. The point is that coops are businesses that are owned by the users.
Fees, rent, taxes--all costs in any business. Time is coming though where sellers will be squeezed to the point where they will have to make the decison as to whether continue to line the pockets of goliath's like eBay or work for themselves. I made my choice 6 months ago. Steve and Dman have made theirs as well. I just ask that the sellers and buyers take a look at what is being offered and give the coops a chance.
posted on June 23, 2001 08:23:55 AM new
Cathy is right Just because we are Calling them Niche sites Dont mean they have to be limited In fact they should over lap and blend togeather.
Look at it this way There are Vintage Books, music, Movies, and toys ECT. This Could be Used by every site to Link each other togeather.
Remember last year when Ebay Started Running the banners that lead user off and away from sellers offering like Items on the big boy websites, Well This could work for an
association or Co-operative of niche sites and you wouldn't be leading them from buying inside the Co-operative.
Caty brings up another point I been trying to get over, Co-operative is Businesses owned by its users. trying to promote this to Sellers Individually is way to big to handle How ever if the Grass Root moves and gets group of Like sellers togeather to build sites to suit there needs. it would be easyer to form the larger
association .
every Niche ties to the Next Toys, movies, music, clothes, Books, Collectables, Electronics Computer, Appliances, Home and Graden, Jewlery, Houses , Cars Ect. they all will brach out but togeather as well.
As well as small a seller as I am it getting to the point where My profits are very close to just meeting the Cost of Selling With shipping getting higher There isnt much room left to up the starting prices and Charge more in the form of handleing and still get people willing to pay soon it will have come full circle and be sheaper for they to take the time and gas money to go get these thing at garage sales and flea markets them selves again the conveinace of online and saveings will be gone for both buyers and sellers.
The Push for these IPOs like ebay To make more more more has Got them so large its getting to costly for its users to keep going It didnt start out being built from people who are loaded with big $$ it was built by people with a few dollars a hobby willing to take a chance on them for a few dollars risk.
The Idea here is to not think Larger to grab all the market share and make selling more costly but to think local smaller groups as some one posted some where some in this movement are thinking to big and for getting it is still posable to build this working your own farm so to speak.
posted on June 23, 2001 09:04:32 AM new
Dman- The grouping of coops is a good idea. But we have to get them formed first!!!
Twinsoft has done what many of the detractors of coops have been asking for. SHOW ME!!! Show me what I will be investing in. Show me what I can expect.He has provided a beta version of the software he would like to use for a general merchandise coop. He has asked for site feedback. I haven't seen much here. The "look" there isn't exciting -- but the auction software has posibilities. It has run smoothly for my searches and my just fooling around on the site.It's a concrete start.
Although "show me" isn't always practical in development stages--here is someone saying- TAKE A LOOK! The cooperative business model works for all sizes and shapes of businesses-this may be a place to start--but you won't know til you look. Then post your criticism. This is all market research for Steve. People's input is what creates a people's coop.
posted on June 23, 2001 11:32:30 AM new
Thank you, Cathy. When we began discussing this idea, several people thought we would never have the thousands of dollars needed to buy the necessary hardware or software. I put together the site you see in one evening. It uses a free auction script from EverySoft and free hosting from Hypermart. Anyone can do what I did and have a free auction site up and running in just a couple of hours. And while it isn't pretty, it is very functional. What's more, this software is open source, and many programmers are donating their time to create improved versions and script addons. There is even an online message board for user-to-user support. You can hardly ask for more than that, for free.
Now that the first obstacle of building the site has been overcome, we're hearing familiar objections like "the bidders won't come, etc." Most of these objections have some validity, but they are not insurmountable obstacles. They won't prevent the co-op from happening, any more than the fact that we didn't have $100,000 in start-up finances.
As Cathy has observed, the OASC auction site is more than "just another free site." It is a meeting place where users can discuss forming a co-op.
We have to remember that if we go back, we're going back to eBay. That may be acceptable to some. But as Dman said, many of the small-time sellers are already being squeezed out. Maybe some of the bigger seller can afford fee increases, and competition from the new storefronts. But many sellers are losing their livelihoods because eBay just can't get enough. We can run to yet another small eBay-wannabe site and take our chances, or get together and do the work necessary to build our own site, for us.
posted on June 24, 2001 06:50:23 PM new
Cathy- I suppose I was thinking you meant "vintage" in the strictest sense of the word. To me, "vintage" doesn't equal "used". For example, I sell Barbie dolls, from the first that came out in 1959, to dolls that are new in the box/ made last week. Now, there are people who would say that they are all collectible (and there are also people who would laugh at that notion), but you can hardly call last week's doll from Toys R US "vintage". You can't really even call a NRFB doll from 1985 "vintage", even if that doll is really collectible.
Anyway, I think you all have made some very good points. I definitely see where you all are coming from.
I haven't spent a lot of time at Twinsoft's site (and no, it wasn't a case of the sour grapes after getting outbid on the auction troll LOL!!!! I've been sick in bed.) But I did take another look briefly today, and came back to post my observation that a $200 item (sapphire earrings) still seems to have bid increments of only 25¢. Yes, I know, that is totally nit-picky. If it's the least of our problems, that means things are going pretty smoothly, right?
(I just realized that it would probably be more appropriate to post suggestions on the site's message board, and I will do that in the future.)
If you had registered to the Auction site and were listing Items you would see the seller chooses the bid increments.
So The seller decided on the .25 not the software.
This is one of them things Seller can get control over in a small Auction setting.
I have a few Auction scripts I am working on now I can tell you this much from my time working with these various perl scripts and add ons Twinsoft is eter very very lucky or he is Very good.
I have fouled up over 8 working scripts trying to add additional features to my auction script.
I Have been here for over a 2 weeks Thankfull for abilty to be able to make instant back up copys of the last working version and not haveing to start over each time
posted on June 24, 2001 08:22:58 PM new
Hi, CAgrrl. Thanks for posting that. The bid increments are set by the seller when the item is listed.
I've been adding lots of extras to the basic script, but each addon increases the number of variables, while the addon instructions always assume a fresh script. So each addon becomes more complex. In some cases the instructions aren't quite up to par. So I am reaching the limit of modifications. We may be able to add a few more bells and whistles, but major modifications will probably require a real programmer.
Even at best, our software won't duplicate all of eBay's features. Remember, this is a free "putt-putt" and we can't expect it to drive like a Cadillac. However, it does work well and it hasn't crashed yet.
Think of it as eBay is life in the big city, and our site is more like going camping in a state park. There's running water, bathrooms and maybe you can get a little TV going, but there aren't many luxuries. When we begin to build our membership base, we can look into upgrading our software.
We've been getting good input from our users and right now we're looking into setting up a Community Guidelines framework. There's a lot to consider as we want to maintain the highest standards. Any input is welcome.
posted on June 24, 2001 09:36:21 PM new
This is some of the best news I've heard in a long time.
A little tired tonight but I'll be back in the morning when I hope I'll be more able to express appreciation for the opportunity that twinsoft has offered us.
posted on June 25, 2001 03:20:07 AM new
Well, twin, I think you are a wizard. I do think it's cool that sellers can set their own bid increments. How cool! I wonder if I would have figured that out for myself, had I posted auctions instead of just looking at/bidding on them? I am technically challenged, so I wouldn't be too hasty to bet that I would have...glad you guys pointed this out. Will make it a point to post some things this week to try out the "other side". (shucks, buying stuff always comes easier to me than selling it does- LOL!)
Is it too early to start inviting all my Barbie pals????
LOL!!!! I've been sick in bed.) But I did take another look briefly today, and came back to post my observation that a $200 item (sapphire earrings) still seems to have bid increments of only 25¢. Yes, I know, that is totally nit-picky. If it's the least of our problems, that means things are going pretty smoothly, right?