posted on June 25, 2001 07:10:41 AM new
Thank you twinsoft.
This is the most positive, specific and pratical action since MAM.
Whatever is the outcome of using this particular software etc. is really quite unimportant.
What is important is that users will have the opportunity to take matters into their own hands, work together and build something that is their's.
Will it challange eBay? Of course not. There will always be categories at eBay that are bigger than this site will ever become, have more sales and be more profitable.
But it is a break in the dam.
A trickle of water that's getting out of eBay's control.
A working together of sellers beyond their reach that are communicating and combining resources to market online and NOT PAY eBAY A FEE.
eBay isn't affraid of any one business ever challanging their dominance of the online marketplace. They have already beat Bill Gates, Gerry Yang et al, Jeff Bezos and bought off AOL.
But individuals out there doing it on their own. That has to drive them crazy.
If a few people at AW can do it then any one can do it. (No offense meant but I haven't noticed any titans of the IT field in our group.)
If anybody can do it then other people will try.
And some will succeed. And join with others as a network.
Even if it's hard work and lower initial profits it will be our own and away from their grasp.
You may think what you started was a small co-op auction site.
In reality it is Hope, Opportunity and Self Determination in the form of some software.
I would put your picture up there with the kid standing in front of the tank in China and the people wacking down the Wall in Berlin.
I think eBay has made only one major mistake. It choose to seperate from and leave the Community of Users.
We like eBay but we don't need them. Not in the long run.
They will always be welcomed back but in the meantime we have to get on with the business of taking care of ourselves.
posted on June 25, 2001 09:02:11 AM new
Ray--You are right. I don't think that any of the coops can take on eBay. They are just too big. But that doesn't mean that a cooperative site cannot be successful in it's own right. And better still, it doesn't mean that a confederation of online coops can't make a powerful impact as a group.
HMMM- The Confederation of Online Cooperatives--catchy name for a possible non-profit group!!
The face of internet selling for the small seller is changing. Ebay is too big and cumbersome to change it's plans at this point and those plans do not benefit the small to medium seller. They have bigger fish to fry. The many voices of the sellers that are crying to be heard are just a faint buzz in eBay's ear, an annoyance, but of no great importance. That is why there has to be an alternative. Why not be self-benefitting and self-ruling within the traditional coop structure?
CAgrrl-The question of what is "vintage" or what is "collectible" is just such a bear!!! You obviously already know that there are a hundred different interpretations! If you would be willing to email me privately, I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about this and have a few questions I would like to ask. Thanks!
I would like to see, at least, a reference thread on the eBay forum pointing to this discussion.
I don't want to rock the boat, well not this boat, and would appreciate your guidance or suggestion before doing anything.
I want to respect the guidelines of AW while still having a front door enterance to the majority of user traffic. This board is somewhat like an enterance down the alley and around out back when it comes to viewer traffic.
I have no question that our future on eBay will be substancially influenced by the efforts off ebay and it is a valid subject for posting on an eBay board but my NSHO (not so humble opinion)is not the deciding factor here.
Any suggestions about a signpost thread over there?
posted on June 25, 2001 09:59:16 AM new
Hi, just catching up on this thread ....
If you'd like to do some interesting reading, there's a lot of information on setting up co-ops at the University of Wisconsin Center for Co-operatives:
You can save this to your computer by right-clicking on the link.
I was reading the above article last night. The beginning of the modern co-op movement is usually credited to a group of weavers in Rochdale, England, who took the name "Rochdale Pioneers." They were suffering from a harsh economic and political climate and began their own cooperative store. It was interesting to note that when their store opened, they stocked just a few items (flour, sugar, candles) and were only open two days a week for about five hours total. 150 years later, there are 700 million co-op members worldwide.
. Online Auction Sellers Co-op
posted on June 25, 2001 10:14:32 AM new
Hi, CAgrrl. We've been testing the software for a week and have found no problems yet. Everything works. I am still adding a few scripts. So far no bugs have been reported. One advantage to using open-source code is that there is a group of dedicated programmers working on this program all the time, so it has already been tested pretty well (compared to commercial software that is often rushed to market).
We need to work up a simple set of community guidelines, but that may take some time. We want to establish the highest code of ethics for both sellers and buyers. At first I though I would provide only limited support for the auction site, and focus on discussion, but it looks like the site might better serve as an actual working model of the co-op. It seems to me the real challenge will be in encouraging users to sit down collectively and focus their energies together.
I believe the site is ready to "go live" or will be very shortly. I have a few sales to take care of this week (still gotta pay the rent) then I will write up a set of CGs based on user input so far, and open the site for business. The CGs will be subject to debate and can be revised at any time. The more people providing input, the better the site can fit everyone's needs (including buyers).
. Online Auction Sellers Co-op
posted on June 25, 2001 10:27:16 AM new
Ray, you are right, we don't intend to challenge eBay. At this point I think it is very important that we differentiate ourselves from eBay. We must consider economic aspects, but the greater challenge will be in focusing on our goals and educating members as to why cooperation is necessary. This may not be easy, considering our backgrounds, but I will be the first to admit that the co-op will mainly benefit small sellers who are being crushed by eBay. So the incentive is already there.
I believe we (eBay and us) are moving in different directions. eBay is focusing on retail sales, while we are trying to recapture what eBay has abandoned, the "virtual flea market." eBay has been good to us, but their primary focus is on making money for their stockholders. Our focus is on us. We need a way to sell our wares at cost without being subject to endless fee increases that only line the pockets of rich shareholders.
posted on June 25, 2001 10:36:57 AM newReston_Ray, I am here in the role of "company rep" and so I want to be very careful about how I present this idea. Much of what I'd like to say has been left unsaid because I don't want to seem like I'm promoting the co-op. So far I have tried only to announce the new site, mention a few features, and discuss why I feel it is needed.
You might want to email the moderators and ask about a reference link in eBay Outlook. Perhaps you might post it in the context of being an eBay alternative. That has been done before. AuctionWatch is generally very understanding and flexible. I think it would help the discussion. Just check with them first and make sure it's okay.
. Online Auction Sellers Co-op
posted on June 27, 2001 08:12:19 AM new
Hello Steve,
I tried to bid on my candle holder auction to test the seller bid block. It worked without problem (I think).
I then placed a bid on LadyJane's auction #995386427 to test the proxy feature. You had a current bid of $9.95 and I placed a bid for $15.07. My bid was recorded as $1.00 and replaced your bid as the current bid.
Obviously this is a problem.
When I went to the InternetPioneer board to report this problem to you I discovered that my userid is now unregistered.
posted on June 27, 2001 01:43:06 PM new
Code, I bet Twinsoft is fiddling with the software. He unregistered me once or twice while we were testing this.
posted on June 27, 2001 02:40:13 PM new
ODD last night when I checked and this after Noon the registered count the same so maybe it was temporary giltch from working with the software.
posted on June 27, 2001 02:55:49 PM new
Code, well that's what you get for complaining, now isn't it? LOL
But seriously, it was probably a glitch. You may have accessed a page while I was working on the script. You are registered.
I think the proxy bidding feature is working now. Please give it a try. There was a conflict between this script and the Verify Bid script (proxy bidding has its own bid verification screen) but hopefully the bug is out. Thanks for pointing it out, I think I commented out the Prebid subroutine by mistake. Should be working now. If not, I'm going to take the "black capsule."
posted on June 27, 2001 02:59:14 PM new
Code, BTW are you referring to your Internet Pioneers ID, or your support board ID? As far as I know, you haven't registered on our board yet. (You have posted there as an "unregistered user." )
posted on June 27, 2001 03:22:11 PM new
The launch date has been tentatively set as July 4th. That seems like a good date to kick off our hootenanny.
To avoid any legal entanglements, I have removed the word "Co-op" from our site name, as we are not a co-op yet. Only the site name has changed, we are still dedicated to building a co-op and the site will still be run by "one member, one vote" (or as nearly as we are able until we build a membership base).
The site is now called "Internet Pioneers," after the Rochdale Pioneers of Rochdale, England, considered founders of the co-op movement.
A preliminary set of guidelines (rules) has been posted at:
posted on June 28, 2001 03:32:20 PM new
Hi, Code. Yes, the board is separate from our auction site. I believe you are already registered with EZBoard under the ID "Codasaurus." You can use that ID or create a new one. You'll have to check with EZBoard about that.
I went and looked at the Guidelines for the Internet Pioneers. Great list! I had some questions and wasn't sure where to post them-- here or at EZ? Please let me know!
I registered today and looked through the lisings and found something I was interested in! I collect Mr Peanut glass canisters! I use them for crushed wheat, rice, lentils... whatever in my kitchen. As soons as I get a shipping price from the seller- I will be bidding!
Looking with no subcategories is weird-but managable for now. When do you plan on adding these?
I would also like to suggest that the name of the category be somewhere at the top of the item description page.
Everything ran smoothly for me! I am looking forward to seeing the cooperative forming!Thanks!!
posted on July 4, 2001 01:54:59 PM new
Hi, Cathy. Thanks for your kind comments. I also found a "must have" small hummingbird statue for Mom. The category name is at the top of the page, right above the seller's ID. We can add subcategories and I will do that as more items are listed. Thanks for your great suggestions. Another feature I'm planning is a "Friends Of Internet Pioneers" link exchange, as several sites are already linking to us. Good luck with Vintage Marketplace Cooperative and good luck to us all!
posted on July 5, 2001 10:00:57 AM new
Twinsoft, I wish you and this new site lots of luck and may they have many cheerleaders like yourself. I just hope this site will show some respect to the other site that are fighting to stay alive. From a bidville cheerleader have a nice buying/selling day.
posted on July 5, 2001 12:09:52 PM new
Just wanted to say that I got a nice email from a friend announcing the opening of the the new site. I registered today and listed my first 2 items. Very simple and easy to do.
I did notice that you don't currently support Dutch Auctions, any plans to allow multi-item listings?
posted on July 5, 2001 12:40:24 PM new
Hi, Katiyana. Thanks for your support! I would very much like to add support for Dutch auctions. There is a modification for our script available, but it is rather complex and I'm afraid it is beyond my simple hacking abilities. I hope that we can find a volunteer with some Perl programming experience who can help us. Hopefully we will add Dutch auctions very soon.
posted on July 5, 2001 01:17:47 PM new
In lieu of that coding, is it allowed to have multiple auctions for the same item? Ebay limits you to 10 identical auctions, and just wondered if the TOS permits this, at least until Dutch Auction format is available? I'd like to stagger list 3-5 items, so I wouldn't have to jump right over to relist when I made a sale, but would already have others up - I hate making a sale and then having NO other items available - might lose a sale that way!
posted on July 5, 2001 01:28:59 PM new
Hi, Katiyana. Since we are a free site, I believe allowing multiple listings would open the door to a whole lot of junk items and category spamming. Right now users are allowed only one unique listing, as Yahoo did when they were a free site.
I think the best way to proceed would be this: If you are willing to set a fixed price for your (Dutch) auctions, simply place an email link in your ads stating,
"I have several of these available at the same price. If this item has received bids, please contact me directly."
Add a link to your web site, or word it however you like. Yesterday I contacted one of eBay's big shipping supply dealers and invited him to list some items. That was the suggestion I made to him and it is the best solution I can think of until we implement Dutch auctions.
. Internet Pioneers
posted on July 5, 2001 01:36:49 PM new
Perhaps a very low multi-item listing limit. Ebay limits you to 10 identical auctions, maybe a limit of 2-3? I do see your point in not wanting 100's of the same auction over and over again - of course in an ideal world all those people wanting the item will place bids and drive the price up for me. 8) I suppose if one watched the auctions carefully and scheduled listings once every 2 weeks - those items that sold could be relisted that way... Hmmmmm
Its very fun planning your strategy for someplace new. I already have 3 hits on one of the 2 items I listed... 8)
