I can relate to that. I was so frustrated during the first year of college because it's just senior year of high school all over again and I discovered the most fabulous book store there. There were so many good books to read, I began to wonder if I was maybe wasting my time...doing those high school assignments in college. LoL
posted on August 13, 2001 07:27:17 AM new
saabsister
LoL...We should start a thread.
I have to go out for just a few minutes....maybe we can pick up on that topic. ROTFLOL
My husband is standing at the door with his keys saying are your ready yet, are you ready yet, are you ready yet...just like Mikey on the tv commercial.
posted on August 13, 2001 08:55:36 AM new
For home schoolers that think isolating children from popular culture and social "unpleasantness" better prepares them for the world, you are sadly mistaken.
What you do is train your children to be irrelevant and avoid these challenges instead of facing and properly dealing with them. Business and social interaction requires much more than sound "book" learning. Realizing and understanding differences, inequalities, effectivly using persausion, and effectivly interacting are all learned at public schools.
Home schooled are going have to deal with drug addicts, sexual perverts, violent extremists, ethnic and religious animosity, and the problems of the poor, if they are integrated in any manner with the rest of the world. For democracies to flourish, a common experience must be formed. The public schools do just this. Other than in clinical terms from third persons, how might a home schooler address these problems ?
Isolation exacerbates differences and destroys empathy. Leaders and those who have exacted positive change always came from and experienced the problems first hand, and more often than not, right in our public school systems. There is no such thing as causation from a distance when dealing with people. A wonderful problem solver or leader may be in a home school right now that will never realize their potential because they never experienced or had to face the challenges presented by dealing with different people.
Home schooling seems to apply an amended, but valid metaphor, " if you can't beat'em, avoid'em". Which in reality, these "problems" can't be avoided, sooner or later they must be faced.
posted on August 13, 2001 09:26:24 AM new
Differences, inequalities, effectively using persausion, and effectively interacting are best learned under guidance from experienced adults rather than from inexperienced peers.
"For democracies to flourish, a common experience must be formed."
This democracy called America was formed and led by homeschoolers. For dictatorships to flourish, a common experience must be formed. Have you by chance read the history of the public school system?
Homeschoolers belong to various groups of peers and interact with adults, both family and otherwise daily. Only in the last 75 years or so have children been age segregated. Prior to that, children learned in a more natural environment included adults, grandparents, younger siblings, the one room school house, etc. Where have you EVER been age segregated outside of the American public school system?
This morning, my children are spending the entire morning at an international airport and I ASSURE you that they are effectively interacting with people with differences, inequalities, and effectively using persuasion to get something their way.
T
"Home schooled are going have to deal with drug addicts, sexual perverts, violent extremists"
And you will use this argument to convince me that school is a "good" place for kids? LOL
There are plenty of drug addicts, sexual perverts and violent extremists outside of the public school system to take advantage of, thank you.
[ edited by jt on Aug 13, 2001 09:29 AM ]
posted on August 13, 2001 09:43:06 AM newLeaders and those who have exacted positive change always came from and experienced the problems first hand, and more often than not, right in our public school systems.
That's laughable when you consider that so many of our leaders are the scions of wealthy families, raised without with slightest hint of adversity or challenge, and educated in exclusive preparatory schools and Ivy League colleges.
posted on August 13, 2001 09:48:55 AM new
"Unfortunately, virtually none of her school peers are into any kind of serious training much less equestrian. This does tend to isolate her and often leaves her with nothing in common w/other kids her age."
Eventer, I DO understand this statement and it applies to us as homeschoolers. My daughter has developed her OWN interests rather than the "common popular interests" of many of her friends. It makes her a bit "different" which is FINE with me.
For instance she is also into horses and has participated in traning her own horse with a skilled trainer. She is a HUGE hockey fan and knows no other girls that even understand the sport. She spends a lot of time with her dad and on a recent canoe trip with 20 other teens she was deemed "expert canoer". On the other hand, she has no interest at all in popular fashion, music, etc. I notice that when her schooled friends are over, she struggles to keep on topic
of musicians, teen heart throbs, etc. but when her homeschooled friends are
over they are often discussing academics. Recently she was asked by a boy (an
OLDER boy) to be "his girlfriend" and where as other girls her age all seem to
have boyfriends, she replied, "I like you very much and would like to be your
friend but I think we should wait a few years before we name it "boyfriend-girlfriend" ". Then with a grin she said, "I have to go to college first".
I think that shows a great deal of consideration and maturity on her part. She is a few weeks shy of 13.
T
[ edited by jt on Aug 13, 2001 09:51 AM ]
posted on August 13, 2001 09:54:58 AM new
Thomas Edison's mother promptly removed him from school after his teacher labeled him "dim". LOL, how would you like to go down in history with that on your record?
T
posted on August 13, 2001 10:53:55 AM new
The "leaders" from these wealthy families rarely effected positive change. Imagine if Martin Luther King were home schooled and "protected" from bigotry and racism.
I think it is interesting the comment about being under the control of adults. Sooner or later children will have to stand on their own and face their peers without mommy and daddy to protect them. We don't need anymore adults like George W. Bush.
For the 13 year old that "rejected" the relationship with the older boy it may have been a wise decission for her age and quaint, but I wonder how she will magically develope the ability to interact with the opposite sex at age 22. These things are a process, not benchmarks. In my experience, those totally under mommy and daddy's thumb through their teen years go absolutely wild at college or whenever they get a taste of freedom. They simply can not handle making their own decissions without mommy and daddy present and interjecting.
Our founding fathers were not "home schooled" as presented today. All attended community schools and/or colleges. Jefferson's elementary education was under a tutor at a relatives school attended by other children.
Jefferson was the advocate for public schools open to everyone and funded by taxes.
Do you really think you can learn to be a public speaker/communicator/leader in a home schooling environment ? How can you lead people when you've never even been around them ?
posted on August 13, 2001 11:12:35 AM new
"How can you lead people when you've never even been around them ?"
But they are going to be around them. This morning. At the airport. The international airport. Effectively interacting with different and inequal people, effectively persuading them to get something their way.
posted on August 13, 2001 11:18:08 AM new
I think home schooling can be an effective short term solution in some cases. A friend of mine has a son who has some learning disabilities and was placed in a regular classroom. For some reason he and his eighth grade teacher didn't click and the teacher often said aloud to the class that if xxx didn't understand the subject that perhaps he should go sit with the sixth graders. He began to hate school.I don't know why this issue couldn't be resolved by the parents,one of whom was a teacher, and the classroom teacher, but it wasn't and my friend ended up taking her son out of school for the remainder of the year to home school him.He returned to public school the next year when all the students went to a new high school. He finished as a C student, won several statewide atheletic events, and is now in a junior college nearby.
posted on August 13, 2001 11:44:01 AM new
witnessing? What is that?
Terri,
I know that you live in a great area for young children, with animals, ponds, creeks, acres of land for a playground but think about the number of home school children who are isolated at home...in a little house on a little street all day long.
My children enjoyed and looked forward to going to school and I looked forward to seeing them leave. LOLOLOL!!! But just think...It must be almost like house arrest for some children to be confined to a house without friends all day long every day of the week.
Now, I want to make it clear that I do not want to argue about this. I am just trying to understand. Are you homeschooling because of a problem with the schools in your area or the curriculum as it relates to religion? It might be better to be in an inferior school with friends than to be isolated at home. After all, you can teach them at home whatever they are lacking at school.
At least, your children should be allowed to take part in sports and music activities at the local school. Is this possible?
Well, that's a relief, because I was wondering if I should have pointed out that airports, being public places, are as "Godless" (and, therfore, "anti-religion" ) as public schools.
(smiley)
[ edited by donny on Aug 13, 2001 11:45 AM ]
posted on August 13, 2001 11:45:37 AM new
Yes I'm sure a day at the airport substitutes for 12 years of interaction on a daily basis with different people, different situation, different backrounds. LOL.
Would the day at the airport teach them how to manage 3 basketball teams and one court at recess ?
Does home schooling teach them how to handle a bully ?
Does home schooling teach them when it is productive to be a "whistle blower" towards your peers and when it is best to keep your mouth shut and not be a "tattletail" ?
Does home schooling teach them fow to interact with handicapped people ? My daughter now babysits for a retarded peer she befriended in third grade through a mainstreaming program. It has taught her patience and differences in people. It has also allowed my daughter to bring her high school friends into the life of someone who is retarded and probably would never have the opportunity to imteract with them, they go and visit her whenever they can.
People aren't aren't perfect. There will be skinned knees, broken noses and hearts, missed expectations, missed opportunities, and disappointments galore. You can not hide from it, nor protect and shield your children from these things forever.
I guess home schooling is OK if you work with a machine isolated somewhere.
posted on August 13, 2001 12:00:23 PM new
I have checked the dictionary but I still do not understand the concept of witnessing especially how it relates to the airport.
Will someone please explain to me just what witnessing is.
posted on August 13, 2001 12:03:21 PM new
So the thread is about the requirement to provide school supplies, not home schooling.
To tell the truth, this was the first that I'd heard of such a thing. Schools that I went to provided everything, and so did the school(s) attended by my stepdaughter ten years ago. Most schools here (or rather in the two counties here where I've lived most of the time) have computers and all needed equipment. I'm not sure that that is true throughout California, but the property tax is structured to increase each year for that purpose and the state lotter is designed so that one third of all revenue is committed to education at the K through 12th level.
It's pretty appalling to hear these stories, and I almost can't imagine how there could have been such a political inattention to education in areas from which these stories arise.
posted on August 13, 2001 01:42:30 PM newThis is not a criticism but a question. Don't you believe that being with other children and adults in the neighborhood is an invaluable learning experience also. Is home schooling as isolated as I am envisioning it...especially in a small town?
My kids aren't terribly isolated here. We live in an area where the houses are pretty far apart, but we do have neighbors. Our next door neighbors have two children precisely the same age as mine (though not as advanced academically). In addition, they have friendly relationships with folks ranging from the toddler a few houses down to the 80+ year old farmer living down the lane across from us. They can hold conversations with any of these folks and seem to enjoy doing so. My Milo was blessed with a copy of one of our former neighbor's autobiography. He'd written it perhaps a decade earlier detailing his exploits as a Dutchman during WWII. His own family never seemed all the interested -- so when Milo and he became friends, she inherited it, as it were. The benefits that one gets from contact with the real world are very much a part of their lives now. They call friends, giggle over the latest teen heartthrob, and play sports with their buddies. (Heck, we've had a hell of a dialogue going regarding AJ's recent rehabilitation program for depression and alcohol abuse.) My children spend perhaps as much as a few hours a day doing "formal" school work (actually, none of our work is done much like the schools tend to do it ...) and the rest is devoted to being kids -- learning as children do best by living. Dunno if that helped to explain my perspective -- hope it did.
Apparently you are serious about the home school college degree. Do you believe that your children will be at a disadvantage when they have to indicate on their resume that they received their college degree at home?
Actually, I don't care much if my kids choose to pursue college course work on their own, through our local community college, or at a university. These are choices they'll have to make as they begin to discover who and what they want to be. I expect my older daughter will end up taking the two year course in silver smithing offered at our local community college -- and follow it up by creating and selling her own art work. My younger daughter will probably go to college formally -- starting with a community college and ending with university studies -- as she has a hankering to study physiology with an eye to medical research.
We've raised our children (we hope) to believe that there's more to success than a college degree and good payin' job. So long as they're happy and self-sufficient, we'll feel we've done our job well.
We homeschool for a number of reasons.
That is a good question and it varies from family to family.
First, I do want my children to have religion intergrated in to their entire education. I don't think that God intended that religion be pocketed into one hour on Sunday. I think it is "cross curriculum".
Second, I think that I can do better than the schools. Is that a fault of the schools? No. It is a fault of the "system". I think children deserve to be educated in a way that suits their individual educational needs. For instance, this year we are doing 7th grade math (and pausing when extra practice is needed) but doing 9th grade English with ease. I believe that children learn from a combination of hands on experience, whole books, and a variety of other life experiences. For instance, what is superior, a diagram of a flower on which to label the parts then 20 minutes in a desk coloring it? or 10 minutes with the diagram followed by an hour in the garden? As I have mentioned before, I don't think that many children would require medication for ADHD if history were taught in a sand box. So a few examples of my philosophy. We DO use well gounded academics PLUS a variety of other methods.
Character training, which closely relates to number 1 but also extends well beyond it. This is my formal idea of character training which I wrote at the onset of homeschooling. It is NOT intended to be for everyone. It was written for me so that my goals are clearly laid out and I don't forget them in my daily activities. It is NOT transfered in to a set of "rules" by ANY means other than what would be normal for a well run family. Instead it is taught though positive encouragment.
**
Character Goals:
Relationships
A. With God
1. Good understanding of who God is and His characteristics.
2. Good understanding of Christ's teachings and God's laws.
3. Good understanding of the principle of salvation.
4. Ability to make life application of Biblical principles.
5. General knowledge of Bible outline and Bible history.
6. Develop a personal prayer/study time.
7. Missions, ministry, church doctrine overview.
8. Personal scriptures with meaning.
9. General overview of other religions from a Christian view point.
10. Understand personal gifts and talents as God given.
11. Understand personal relationship to God and His plan.
12. Develop Godly characteristics.
B. With Self
1. See self as an instrument of God.
2. Feel good about who she is.
3. Find and nurture personal gifts.
4. Understanding of own personal beliefs.
5. Be able to express self in several ways (art, music, writing, speaking, etc.)
6. Develop and understand Godly characteristics.
7. Thinking and problem solving skills.
8. Ability to set and fulfill goals.
9. Ability to face adversity.
10. Love for life long learning.
11. Positive daily habits.
12. Physical health awareness.
C. With others
1. Be able to work and share within the family unit. Cement relationships.
2. View of self in relation to community.
3. View of self in relation to nation.
4. View of self in relation to world.
5. Develop an effective system of conflict resolution.
6. Be able to face adversity.
7. Understand responsibility to others.
8. Make informed decisions of selection of a mate. Marriage skills.
9. Understand ways to minister to others.
10. Effective witnessing skills.
11. Parenting skills (including teaching).
12. Recognition of fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
13. Basic first aid, child care, emergency actions.
D. With created things
1. Responsibility to God's creation.
2. Survival skills.
3. Organizational skills
a. household
b. time management
c. land/farm management
4.Money management
a. basic accounting
b. taxes
c. budgeting and tithing
d. mortgages, loans, credit cards
e. insurance and investing
5.Basic understanding of machines and structures
Emphasis on:
a. auto
b. computer
c. home
6. Pleasure and recreational endeavors.
7. Research skills.
8. Manners and customs of own society.
9. Basic job skills (typing, filing, interviewing, etc.)
10. Home skills (cooking, simple sewing, laundry, cleaning, etc.)
**
No one else is willing to invest the same amount of time and effort and dedication in to my child that I am. I don't think that I can do this in 3 waking hours at home a day.
Finally, release from negative peer pressure and replacment with positive peer groups including more diversity in the age range of the groups/individuals with which they are involved.
This is not posted in order to have it picked apart, nor to suggest in any way that it is superior to any other philosophy as each child/family deserves their OWN UNIQUE philosophy. It is simply to answer Helen's question about why we homeschool. I have no intention of "defending" my goals.
T
~unneeded Roman numeral since I will not be posting formal academic goals.
[ edited by jt on Aug 13, 2001 03:10 PM ]
posted on August 13, 2001 03:34:52 PM newWould the day at the airport teach them how to manage 3 basketball teams and one court at recess ? Would a day at school do this? Or is it something you learn over time, watching how others handle similar situations (for instance, seeing how the local librarian manages to divy up the time on the single computer in our public library)?
Does home schooling teach them how to handle a bully ? Are the only bullies you've encountered to be found at public schools? If so, what luck! We find them in our every day life -- from the fella on the road who won't yeild the right of way because (I guess) he's in a hurry, to the fella at the grocery store who uses the 10 item or less lane with his full buggy of groceries, to the homeless fella who is insistent that we give him a quarter, and more.
Does home schooling teach them when it is productive to be a "whistle blower" towards your peers and when it is best to keep your mouth shut and not be a "tattletail" ? It does if they have siblings.
Does home schooling teach them fow to interact with handicapped people ? My children regularly interact with folks of all sorts - different races, religions, ages, abilities. They experience volunteerism, learn from real life, just like other kids.
Homeschooling isn't the answer to the world's problems, to be sure... it isn't the cause of them either. There seems to be an implicit assumption here that those of us who homeschool do so for our own selfish reasons -- without regard to what might be best for our children. We are not particularly more likely to homeschool our children selfishly than those who choose to send their children to school do so for selfish reasons (how many "what a relief the kids are going back to school now" conversations have you heard this month... LOL!).
posted on August 13, 2001 03:45:26 PM newjt
>>>I have no intention of "defending" my goals<<<
No need to defend, I will not attack.
I will, however, applaud!
I am impressed!
BTW, It doesn't match my philosophy.
It does match my dedication and
it deserves (and has earned) my utmost respect.
Your children are very lucky to have you as a Mommy!
