posted on August 13, 2001 04:25:22 PM
Why, hello, Toke! I don't get around nearly so much as I usta. Nice to run in to ya here. (Somehow I can never resist gettin' my two cents in when the topic moves to home schooling.)
posted on August 13, 2001 04:32:22 PM
jt and xifene
Thank you for your answers.
Although I favor public education, I wish you success!!!
Without the integration of religion in the curriculum and without the isolation involved in home schooling, we are in close agreement about the goals of very early education.
posted on August 13, 2001 05:04:08 PM
Well wishes are always appreciated, Helen. Just to clarify, we don't home school for religious reasons. Religion is no more emphasized now that we home school than it was when our older daughter attended public school. My faith is an important part of my life but wasn't a motivator for bring our children home.
posted on August 13, 2001 05:17:50 PMjt:This morning, my children are spending the entire morning at an international airport and I ASSURE you that they are effectively interacting with people with differences, inequalities, and effectively using persuasion to get something their way.
I didn't have time to ask earlier in the day before rushing out, but I am curious. Exactly how were your kids going t be interacting with the people they see/meet at the airport? Asking questions for a country report? Observing? And what exactly are they persuading them to do?
posted on August 13, 2001 06:36:35 PM
They were there with their dad on business for the morning. He is always running hither and yon and they usually go with him. Their interaction would have been with mainly with airport employees rather than travelers but they could be observed all the same. As for persuading...umm... they are always sitting in a UPS truck, riding in a concrete mixer, my older daughter has "flown" a Cessna with an instructor on invitation just for fun, assisted a snake breeder, held a cat while it had surgery; they have ridden on a giant turtle, talked on a police loud speaker, sat in the cockpit in a military air carrier, met a hockey team and been given a team jersey, been up a forestery fire tower, and toured a host of businesses of ALL kinds, etc. When people see them out in the day they often ask if we homschool and we say 'yes". They are ALWAYS invited to do things other kids don't often get to do...and if they are not invited then they use their "persuasion tatics" of looking cute and begging (politely, shyly).
Last spring (school was in session) we went to Stone Mountain GA and you would not believe the number of international travelers that we actually spoke with from all over the world. Many asked us about homeschooling because it was not done in their countries. My oldest ended up helping some college age men from Japan for quite a long time because they were struggling with reading English signs. They "paid" her in Japanese coins which she has worn on a chain around her neck for a year. Lots of strangers ask her about those. People are NOT afraid to approach kids and strike up a conversation.
We also have business with several elderly couples on a regular basis who treat them like grandchildren...i.e. they know where the candy and softdrinks are kept that they are there for them. They go wherever we go.
We can do this because we homeschool year round and we can also do lessons in the evening if we like. There is no "daytime law" here. We plan all of our outings during school hours to historic sites, museums, etc. and they almost always get one on one instruction from the staff and "special behind the scenes tours".
For the record, one is almost 13 and one is 4. They are just being kids...that's what I meant.
T
posted on August 13, 2001 08:26:20 PM
I realize we've strayed far from the original topic (so what else is new), but there seem to be some misconceptions about home schooling.
Some seem to feel that it's isolationism and, in some cases, it might well be used for that purpose. But a child feeling isolated and alone can happen just as easily in a school of 2000 as a home school of one. There's mental isolation just as there's physical isolation.
Home schooling isn't just for those with religious or social agendas. It's also used quite frequently by parents with children who are seriously training in a sport or particular field. I know a number of children who ride competitively and are striving for the Olympics who are home schooled (or use private tutoring) due to their rigorous training schedules.
We considered home schooling but decided that potentially flunking your own child in a subject wouldn't make for a really comfortable situation at the dinner table.
For the past few years, we've traveled to Florida for the winter equestrian circuit and the big shows there actually have schools established on the grounds just for the kids who are there for the circuit. It's basically private tutoring, geared around the show and training schedule.
Even though the school is only for 1/2 a day, 4 days a week, the tutoring provided was so exceptional that in each year, my daughter has returned far ahead of her local class and this year, in spite of being gone for 5 weeks, still managed to graduate w/the top grade point average in her class.
I've already made arrangements with her new school to actually formally enroll her in one of their sanctioned home schools during our next winter session in Florida.
In our case, isolation is the last thing we have to worry about since we are often at horseshows drawing hundreds of competitors from all over the world.
Would I put my daughter in a private tutoring or flexible home schooling arrangement? In a heartbeat. Not to isolate her but to free her to pursue her dreams.
posted on August 13, 2001 11:00:39 PM
IMHO the last president and vice president had already taken care of the problems with finances in the schools, at least that is what they told us and that is what we paid for with our tax dollars! RE: homeschooling, it is wonderful!! All three of my grandchildren are currently being homeschooled, they can buy an item, give the clerk the correct amount of money. They have happy outgoing personalities and interact well with other homeschoolers and people
they chance to meet on a daily basis.
posted on August 13, 2001 11:31:29 PM
Eventer, you do English riding it sounds like. Though we don't do any competition we attend local western events as spectators. Friends of ours are into really serious competition. They have young boys who place high in roping and win quite a lot of money. At 14 and 16 they have already easily paid for college.
If you pass our way, feel free to stop over. We have 3 pleasure horses for trail riding and could house yours for a break without any effort at all.
T
Thank you for the invitation. We used to compete in Mississippi but they've closed so we mainly stay on the east coast.
My daughter mainly competes in 3 Day Eventing (or Cross Country) Horse Trials though she does show jumping anytime she gets a chance.
Roping, Reining, Barrels and Team Penning are very popular and there's a good bit of money to be made there (silently wondering if we shouldn't have stayed in western!).
If your daughter loves racing, she'd enjoy where we stay when we do the Florida circuit. The owner trained and raced Kelso and is a fountain of racing knowledge and trivia. My daughter spent hours swapping stories with him.
Horses and equestrian sports are a wonderful (albeit sometimes quite expensive) sport for kids. It teaches a lot of discipline, self reliance, decision making and requires great physical strength.
Anyone who doesn't think equestrian riders are athletes is invited to come and watch my daughter, day after day, train in everything from below freezing to 110 heat, pouring rain to snow, day after day, pitting 100 pounds of determination against 1200 pounds of sheer muscle.
posted on August 14, 2001 09:06:02 AMEventer:
Once again, OT (sorry all!).
I have a close friend who competes in the circuit down here (FL). I would love to watch your daughter show when she's here!
It's amazing that these "lightweights" can control and jump all of that solid muscle (I think Samantha weighs about 80 pounds).
e-me if you're interested in hooking up some time this winter!
* and now back to our regularly scheduled topic *
[ edited by zoomin on Aug 15, 2001 10:06 AM ]
posted on August 18, 2001 04:27:37 AM
United Nations Human Rights Protection Committee adopts a resolution about what will and will not be allowed in school textbooks:
Who should have the right to decide what your children are taught? You the parent? Your local or state government? Federal government? World government?
posted on August 18, 2001 05:16:48 AM"United Nations Human Rights Protection Committee adopts a resolution about what will and will not be allowed in school textbooks:"
That's not what it says. What it does say is that the United Nations has requested, after petition, that Japan make accurate historical portrayals of wartime sex slave activity.
"After the textbook controversy erupted in Japan, activists from Seoul
and Pyongyang, as well as some Japanese non-governmental
organizations, lobbied for the topic to be discussed by the United
Nations human rights protection committee meeting.
The committee adopted a resolution that demanded each government
make efforts to promote human rights education in schools and to
portray the history of wartime sex slavery accurately.
The resolution is widely viewed as an indirect request to the Japanese
government to teach accurate history to school children and make a
greater effort to resolve the textbook issue. The Japanese government
has insisted that authors, not the government, are responsible for their
views in school textbooks and it cannot do anything about textbooks
already screened and approved".
posted on August 18, 2001 06:55:19 AM
Efforts to correct inaccuracies in textbooks should be encouraged from federal and world governments.
Political propaganda and inaccuracies in textbooks are serious problems. Biased information leaves students without information on which to base a fair conclusion. In other words, it discourages children from learning how to think.
posted on August 18, 2001 11:16:18 AM
You are correct KRS, that this is but one small incident but it sets a precedent. Though deliberate misinformation should not be the goal, the UN has no place in education.
t.
~not awake yet
[ edited by jt on Aug 18, 2001 11:22 AM ]
"You are correct KRS, that this is but one small incident but it sets a precedent. Though deliberate misinformation should not be the goal, the UN has no place in education."
<end quote>
Why not?
It seems to me that it provides a great forum to correct internationally related misinformation such as this incident illustrates.
Helen
ed. to add note to jt.
I posted an answer and then realized that you had addressed your question to KRS.
Sorry about that...But you may consider my answer also if you want to.
Helen, Do you think we can agree on textbook content with Russia? China? How about Iraq?
Who's "correct history" shall we use on a truely worldwide scale? The US does NOT own the UN despite the fact that we foot the stupid bill everytime something come up.
It's a can of worms for them to get involved in education. That in no way indicates that I support misinformation.
[ edited by jt on Aug 18, 2001 12:03 PM ]
About the link...I am taking a rest from racial related threads for a few days.
Next topic...
"Helen, Do you think we can agree on textbook content with Russia? China? How about Iraq?
Who's "correct history" shall we use on a truely worldwide scale? The US does NOT own the UN despite the fact that we foot the stupid bill everytime something come up."
No, I do not think that we can "always" agree but I do believe that it provides an excellent forum for discussion and "some" possible agreement.
The United Nations human rights protection committee can exert some pressure to prevent the kind of misinformation that is provided by authors such as the ones in this incident.
Of course, they cannot dictate changes but any negotiation is better than none at all.
posted on August 18, 2001 02:00:43 PM
The article is about opening new educational doors and finding freedom in education outside of the tow of governmental tide. It's about progress. It is about courage. It was the cover story on HS Court Report at HSLDA.
I had hoped more people would take the time to read it.
And in all fairness, here is the other feature story:
http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/V17N4/V17N402.asp
Though the adversity faced by hsers is something to which I can very much relate...it was more depressing than the other story.
T
~Correction in source. Added comment.
[ edited by jt on Aug 18, 2001 02:58 PM ]
posted on August 18, 2001 10:02:39 PM
I will tie together the school supply issue and the homeschooling issue.
Here in Alaska they have a state run homeschool program where they supply your child with books, supplies and even in some cases computers. The child does the work at home and every month submits various samples of thier work to a teacher in our state capitol. It is all done via the mail and e-mail. Because so much of Alaska's population lives in rural communities and may not even have a brick and mortar school, Alaska has made it easy for us to educate our children at home. We are also free to choose our own curriculum and except for occasional testing no other "proof" is required by the state.
I homeschooled my 3 children for 7 years. I became ill and had to enroll them in public school in grades 4,8 and 9. They were academically ahead of the other students in their grades. They were and still do make very wise decisions. I believe it is from the values that they learned at home for so many years. They had no problem adjusting to "regular" school. They are very popular kids. They are now starting 8,11 and 12th grades and I continue to look back at the time spent homeschooling as the best thing I could have done for them. I believe they would agree.
posted on August 18, 2001 11:02:10 PM
Thanks for sharing your story Amy.
I am always looking for positive pick-me-ups like yours for motivation. They keep me going from one day to the next. The "how-it-turned-out" stories are always the best.
T
posted on August 19, 2001 04:15:48 AM
We have friends ( yes we do!) That home school 3 children. The two older are boys and the youngest is a girl.
Looking at the personalities of the two boys they would probably have been in a lot of trouble in an institutional school.
The one is very quiet and shy and will go along with almost anything you suggest to be accomadating and would have been ignored and probably not drawn out. He is also physically large and powerful but has no interest in sports. His love? - MUSIC. He can sit at the key board and compose in real time and then discussing it with his brother say OH - But this will give it a different feel - and alter the whole mood of the piece with a different tempo and shift notes. And the younger brother will listen to a bar of it and say Oh, Yeah and dive right in and accompany him like they had rehearsed it for weeks. He is the one who needed constant correction because he tends to be unkind in word to both the older brother and the younger sister and was constantly being asked if that's how he wants to be treated? They have it down NOW to were he goes months without speaking hashly to them. I can see at school he would be in constant conflict where nobody would tell him to bag it, and his smart mouth would be well recieved by the crowd. He is small and quick completely unlike the older one. They are the only siblings I have ever seen who speak to each other in the normal voice they use with other people. The oldest drives and will take the others anywhere they want to go or along with him without resentment. They will sit beside each other when there are seats open apart. They pat each other in passing and touch hands in little displays of affection that look more like an old married couple than brother/brother and brother/sister. They even hold doors for each other and will serve each other in a buffet. The relationship developed with each other alone was worth home schooling.
posted on August 19, 2001 07:30:17 AM
This sounds like another case of home school isolation to me. Don't you believe that The shy fellow who is musically gifted would benefit from being in a school band, appreciated by many students and faculty other than just his small family?
posted on August 19, 2001 08:53:00 AM
No, I think he would get treated poorly from what I remember of my school days, where now he plays with not only his brother and another fellow from outside the family but also two other groups that play for money in different settings like weddings and lawn parties. He gets to play the sort of music he wants to and even his own writings without marching around in funny uniforms. I doubt that a traditional band program would relate to what he does anymore than someone who is already a cabinet maker would want to take shop.
He is finding out also about the real world of balancing commitments to 3 groups with conflicting demands and personalities, and dealing with the business side of offering a service that has to appeal to his public's taste and be attractive and affordable to the people actually booking and paying them. He is learning hard lessons already about business partners, copyright and collecting accounts.
The whole family just went on vacation in Northern Michigan and are exploring a number of areas up there for lessons in geography and ecology along with history and regional economics. They will be visiting sand dunes, a peninsula with historic sites and glacial features, and an area of white pine forest that is what most of the state was like before it was all cut down. They have arrangements to meet locals and see first hand very specifically how people support themselves away from the Detroit metro area with all it's factories and business. They will document it all with photos and bring back plants and rocks and so forth. On the way back they have schedualed to be volunteer labor for a building raising doing whatever construction type work needs done for a couple days. They feel various types of public service is an important lesson and they will work with the kids - not send them off to do it. They have learned to help others who are ill and shut-ins on their own initiative as well as working with organizations like meals on wheels and soup kitchens. Every time they do something like that they learn skills not only dealing with the people and how an organization like that gets things done, but specific skills like institutional food handling.
When they come back I am going to offer to take them along with me to several auctions.
I am not sure they have experienced that and would like to show them several kinds of auctions like a business closing and an estate or farm auction. They spent a day recently with a fellow who is stock broker seeing what he does all day long.
posted on August 19, 2001 03:29:04 PM
Sorry if I do go on and on....
I can see that there ARE home schoolers who DO isolate their kids. I worked with one who basically would not have anything to do with people outside his church which was only about 30 people, and it got a little silly. He was our truck driver for the shop and would not stop and buy pop for the guys because the store sold beer. I guess they were going to hold him down and pour some in him to destroy his holiness. I don't know where he bought his groceries that they did not sell beer - but that was his given reason.
Whatever the elders of his church told him to do he did literally - move from his house or quit his job. He asked me a question about my religeous belief because he had never seen me drink and I tried to answer as straight as I could and his elders told him not to talk to me anymore so he didn't - not even about work he would just nod or shake his head until the owner told him at work he had to talk to anyone ABOUT WORK or his butt was fired. I did not mind really. Kept the interruptions down. Poor kids didn't stand a chance 'cause he was dense as a brick.
but there seem to be some misconceptions about home schooling.
