posted on July 3, 2001 12:42:31 PM new
I don't appreciate your implying you KNOW what I am doing or not doing (giggling) dimview. It is the same exact thing you do in your sell-thru threads... you GUESS, then act like it's Gospel.
Everyone knows your game. Nuff Said.
MOTTO: Just because it is written here doesn't make it the truth. Unless you are actually sitting here with me you don't really know squat enough to make a statement of any kind. Same goes for BidVille.
posted on July 3, 2001 12:59:14 PM new
So now we've had gottaknow88 and cuff pop in and once again attempt to deflect attention, so its time to refocus on the real issues:
"Isn't it surprising that my estimated 0.8% sell-through rate which required making assumptions differed from the reported 1.4% sell-through rate which had the actual data. That's an error rate of 42%.
"Bidville CheerLeaders are not really concerned about an error rate, but they are using it in an attempt to deflect attention from the real issue that is the sell-through rate.
"That, and the incessant relistings."
[ edited by dimview on Jul 3, 2001 01:00 PM ]
[ edited by dimview on Jul 3, 2001 01:02 PM ]
posted on July 3, 2001 01:17:48 PM new
Your error rate of 42% (the difference between .8% and 1.4%) translates to around 3000 items sold per week that you did not count. So, you ignored 3000 sales per week which is more than ePier sells in 2 weeks. If you ignore 3000 ePier sales every week, I believe the sell through would be somewhere around negative 1%.
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incessant relistings
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Jul 3, 2001 01:19 PM ]
[ edited by gottaknow88 on Jul 3, 2001 01:19 PM ]
posted on July 3, 2001 01:24:33 PM new
gottaknow88 >
Your error rate of 42% (the difference between .8% and 1.4%) translates to around 3000 items sold per week that you did not count. So, you ignored 3000 sales per week which is more than ePier sells in 2 weeks. If you ignore 3000 ePier sales every week, I believe the sell through would be somewhere around negative 1%.
I have to assume that you are well aware of the fact that ePier provides the actual sales history at its auctionsite and therefore an accurate sell-through rate *can* be determined?
Okay. I find the Bidville reported numbers to be quite acceptable.
We know the overall sell-through rate is 1.4%, and for the 93% relisted stuff the sell-through rate is essentially ZERO, so what would be the improvement if they were jettisoned?
660,000 x 0.014) / (660,000 x 0.07) = 9,240 / 46,200 = 0.20 x 100 = 20%
So Bidville *could* have a sell-through rate approaching 20%.
posted on July 3, 2001 02:06:54 PM new
Sheesh............. quit bickering, guys!
A seller shouldn't care what statistics say about overall sales on a site only what their particular sales experience is in their particular category. That's the only thing worth counting! If there are no sales, then it may be a waste of time listing. (It doesn't hurt to give it a try though - I learnt that on Yahoo where I did very well despite zero apparent bids for my competitors' auctions.)
My pet peeve is when sellers recommend a site based not on their own good sales experience but rather on wishful thinking/pipedreams of what they HOPE their sales might be in future.
I agree with you on this. It sounds like BV *could* have a 20% sell through if they ditched the relists.
There seem to be two solutions for you. Spend a penny on their "gallery" listing and you get a 10% sell through.
Or, cancel all your items. Then, post them again so they are new and not incessantly relisted. Then, your new items will have a 20% sell through. You will be doing pretty well with your 20% sell rate. You can claim that your sell through at BV is 20% because you have found the formula. All the while Bidville still has a 1.4% rate....the poor fools that didn't realize the secret about incessant relisting.
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incessant relisting
posted on July 3, 2001 02:43:03 PM new
Well, regarding the topic. I don't mean to knock Bidville or any other site just because they have a 1-2% sell-through rate. I'm opening my own auction site tomorrow and as Gaffan notes, people in glass houses, etc.
What I don't understand is all this cheerleading for a site that is basically selling nothing. I didn't look in every category, but in the categories where I sell, folks can't GIVE their items away. So let me ask you specifically, and quite civilly, WHAT TO YOU LIKE ABOUT BIDVILLE?
Because from what I've seen, there is nothing there for me. So, convince me.
posted on July 3, 2001 08:15:07 PM new
twinsoft >
What I don't understand is all this cheerleading for a site that is basically selling nothing.
If you check the threads you'll see that a number of folks put their "high quality" items up on eBay, and relegate their "low quality" items to Bidville.
I didn't do that. I items up on Bidville and they went without bids, so I cancelled them and moved them to eBay on the free listing day.
The results thus far, with still two days to run on the auctions:
Six bids on 19 items, for a 32% personal sell-through rate. First item, one bid at $9.95; second item, one bid at $4.00; third item, one bid at $4.00; fourth item, started bidding at $4.00, but have five bids at $8.50; fifth item, one bid at $4.00; sixth item, one bid at $8.00.
Clearly, these are "high quality" items.
The problem is that there are few buyers, and those they have are getting tired of trying to find the 7% new listings among the 93% old listings.
posted on July 3, 2001 08:36:10 PM new
TOPIC OF THIS THREAD: Do they pay you guys to do this?
No, I'm not paid squat! But I like Bidville, so far. They have been very acommodating and there are many sellers and buyers there that are very nice. I've not seen this at other places that I have listed. Namely Bidbay or even ebay (although I still ist list at ebay)
Now, I know nice does not put food on the table, but as someone else pointed out in another thread, or this one...Rome was not built in a day.
So, for me, I list at ebay as well as Bidville. I sell much more at ebay, but heck they do have the market cornered, but I've also sold some items at Bidville. And, I'm a great buyer at Bidville!
But, back to the original question....nope didn't get paid!
posted on July 3, 2001 09:10:19 PM new
Dimview, I understand your point but free listing days on eBay are few and far between.
Free sites are great but after four years auctioning online, and after the Yahoo fiasco, I'm not going to knock myself out building up a site unless I have some real reason to believe that site is not just another eBay wannabe.
. Internet Pioneers
posted on July 3, 2001 09:42:15 PM new
No they don't pay me either.
But I sell glass china and pottery. call it low end if you like, that's fine. Right now I am reorganizing, and have let my listings basically dwindle to the items that are relisting. I currently have 54 items listed. Since coming to Bidville in early Jamuary, My auctions have always been runing with over 50% ratio with bids at any time untill now. when I start listing again, I expect the same.
Bidville is a free auction site, It is a good one. Use it if you want a free site. But know enough about sales to be able to bring or attract your own customers.
The real problem I see with the big stink on these boards now is you, Dimview.
You keep accusing the cheerleaders of deflecting attention, when actually you are the one doing that. You are are attempting to deflect attention away from the fact that there is growth at Bidville, all you are trying to do now is bash the site.
You used to keep yourself fairly aloof from the type of rhetoric I see you posting since the prez came out with the numbers.
Could it be that the numbers man really hates to be shown that he was wrong? Methinks so. We are aware that that the actual information was not readily available to make the correct calculations, it was the cheerleaders who kept telling you that. But a little thing like not having the correct data didn't stop you. Gheesh!, it's just too bad that your ego cannot take being wrong.
Cause, if Dimview can be wrong about this, Dimview could be wrong about other things, OH NO !!! What will the auction world do?
I don't usually post this way, But since Bidville has put some numbers out there, your posts have really changed and become much more acidic towards Bidville. I too am sorry if the items you are interested in don't do well there. It happens, life goes on.
You have a profile here that you are using to bash a site now, simply because, you were wrong. It happens, Life goes on.
[ edited by jimhhow on Jul 3, 2001 09:44 PM ]
posted on July 3, 2001 09:44:32 PM new
twinsoft >
Dimview, I understand your point but free listing days on eBay are few and far between.
I do list items on eBay other times as well, but when I caught the heads up on a thread here at AuctionWatch, I cancelled them at Bidville soooooo fast ...
Free sites are great but after four years auctioning online, and after the Yahoo fiasco, I'm not going to knock myself out building up a site unless I have some real reason to believe that site is not just another eBay wannabe.
I really can't think of a single reason why sellers should "build" any of the free auctionsites.
Can free auction sites grow on advertising revenue and "feature plans" alone, or must they eventually change to a pay auction site with listing and final value fee revenue as well?
jimhhow >
that there is growth at Bidville.
If the rates of increases in listings and sales are the same, the growth rate is zero.
And that's the sell-through rate.
If the sell-through rate is unchanged, the growth rate is zero, if the sell-through rate is increasing the growth rate is positive, and if the sell-through rate is declining the growth rate is negative.
What is your definition of growth?
(Edited to add that I've always enjoyed a "flame war" and the CheerLeaders make is so. Sorry you find the exchanges upsetting.)
[ edited by dimview on Jul 3, 2001 10:11 PM ]
posted on July 3, 2001 10:12:52 PM new
OK, lets assume the principles you are talking about really apply to anything outside of math, then:
1/10 =1
10/100=10
100/1000=100
1000/10000= 1000
equals zero growth?
The point is that you're claiming a stagnant ratio means there is no growth.
However, there are MORE items, MORE sellers, and MORE buyers than before. These numbers have been increasing. Because YOU decide that only the numbers you look at are important, doesn't mean there is no growth, and you know it. Now you just have an adgenda. It is a real shame too, I used to have some respect for what you were trying do with the numbers.
posted on July 3, 2001 10:36:53 PM new
I chose Bidville because it's easy to use, they have a lot of listings, and they're free. I really liked ther navigation. It's even better than Yahoo's (which I thought was pretty good).
It terms of sales, things have defin. picked up on Bidville during the past month or so. It's about even with yahoo... I would say. This recent $1-sale was pretty good to me. I sold about 65-70% of my items. Almost all with multiple bids. The great thing is that I had many of these cards listed below $1 before the $1-sale... thus with multiple bids I even made more than I originally anticipated.
Bidville is no eBay. I had a card sitting on Bidville for $2.50. I put it on eBay and it sells for $15.00++. However, sometimes my cards on Bidville get bought a lot higher than I would ever imagine possible on eBay. It just depends if the right buyer comes at the right time. And that's pretty much what Bidville needs: more buyers.
Of course buyers will only come if sellers are there. That' why few go to Epier and the like. Give Bidville a try. List 10-15 items using the Gallery or Feature. See what response you get.
Finally, Dimview, don't you have a life or something? You've been on these boards from 40 hours straight. 40 hours of freakin' AuctionWatch!! Pitiful. Don't tell me: you wear coke-bottle glasses and wear pocket protectors (don't even try denying it).
posted on July 3, 2001 11:06:55 PM new
jimhhow >
1/10 =1 10/100=10 100/1000=100 1000/10000= 1000
equals zero growth?
I can't argue with you calculating a sales growth rate and a listings growth rate.
I selected the sell-through rate because I am looking for an upward trend.
The point is that you're claiming a stagnant ratio means there is no growth.
However, there are MORE items, MORE sellers, and MORE buyers than before.
Right now Bidville has 660,000 listings and 9,240 sales weekly. If they have 10X growth according to your table, they will then have 6,600,000 listings and 92,400 sales weekly. But as you say, there will be more items and more sellers to go along with them, therefore on average each seller will not have any improvement in their own sales figures.
That's why I look for an increasing sell-through rate as my benchmark.
fixed UBB.
edited again to point out why I use sell-through rate as my benchmark. My sell-through rate Bidville is essentially ZERO. On eBay, there's now:
Seven bids on 19 items, for a 37% personal sell-through rate. First item, one bid at $9.95; second item, one bid at $4.00; third item, one bid at $4.00; fourth item, started bidding at $4.00, but have five bids at $8.50; fifth item, one bid at $4.00; sixth item, one bid at $9.00; seventh item, one bid at $8.00.
[ edited by dimview on Jul 3, 2001 11:09 PM ]
[ edited by dimview on Jul 3, 2001 11:17 PM ]
posted on July 3, 2001 11:07:50 PM new
Alright folks, back on topic please - cease and desist with the personal jabs at eachother. I'm asking once only and I'm asking nicely.
posted on July 3, 2001 11:16:19 PM new
Exactly dimview, you asked for my definition of growth, and I gave it to you. The real crux is we are talking about your definition, aren't we. The problem is you go around preaching that as gospel. It is not the total measure of a site, and it is not even the best indicator of potential. Why? ....because it has a finite point.
I would love to go into why you and everyone else feels that bidville must be calculated using the same yardstick as ebay, but I am probably already far enough off topic to disturb Michelle's shift.
posted on July 3, 2001 11:35:08 PM new
jimhhow >
Exactly dimview, you asked for my definition of growth, and I gave it to you. The real crux is we are talking about your definition, aren't we. The problem is you go around preaching that as gospel. It is not the total measure of a site, and it is not even the best indicator of potential. Why? ....because it has a finite point.
I'm looking for "growth" that benefits the individual auction seller.
Of course we're talking about my definition. I'm the only person making calculations. So rather than dismiss my selection of a benchmark, why not take the opportunity to contribute your own calculations from time to time?
posted on July 3, 2001 11:56:06 PM new
because I am usually busy listing auctions, packing items or corresponding. ( note: I am talking usually, when not doing R/L things and not ill)
posted on July 4, 2001 07:19:35 AM new
Actually I can see Both points of jimhhow
& dimview.
The thing is both of you are right.
Point is on a personal level dimview
is right From a indivdual seller point of veiw there is little growth in there income and sales.
as bidville grows more sellers more items their business grows but inless the bids and buyers grow two or three times faster each seller makes less and less sales from bidvilles growth.
The main reason each seller lists Auction is to sell, its great bidville is nearing the million listings mark.
Problem is they only have 9,240 bids that is on average less then one bid per seller.
even if they had like was point out over 6 million listings and bidding went up to 92 thousand you still have indivual seller business not growing its still less then 1 bid per seller.
so you now have a site that is growing by leaps and bounds But sellers who are starveing.
if you have a 10% growth in listings and sellers you need a 30% to 50% or more growth in sales or more or each micro business will in time fail and with that the auction site its self.
