posted on September 21, 2001 01:25:04 PM
[b]There are also some covert operations planned. One that covert operation has leaked out is a plan for a mass group signing of "Give Peace A Chance."
Just wait till the Taliban is faced with that formidable weapons. That'll change their tune about harboring terrorists.
All together now
All we are saying...
[/b]
Thanks for the laugh, uaru! That was great!
ubb...
[ edited by nefish on Sep 21, 2001 01:25 PM ]
posted on September 21, 2001 01:31:28 PMThere has been, is, and will continue to be, legitimate observations that are unfavorable to Bush.
My wife and I have decided to stop the argument over the "on bended knee" at this point. We feel there are more important issues, in particular the "teleprompter" issue that seem much more heated between us. Any suggestions on how I should approach this. My brother has suggested I divorce my wife over the matter.
First, just a little tip for you. Your message would be more effective without the juvenile insults that you like to deliver. That is a lesson from debate 101.
About casualties.
We will have approximately 5000 when the counting is completed.
If we deliver a counter attack, just suppose that they have an equal amount killed.
Then, they will counter attack and the terrorist war will continue... tit for tat, just like the Israli conflict has continued for the past 40 years.
posted on September 21, 2001 01:43:08 PM
Absolutely, Tex1, we know how mature all this Bush bashing is and the fact that the Taliban is taking this all in and have figured they have already won, please no more juvenile retorts to juvenile posts. A little decorum if you please!?
posted on September 21, 2001 01:45:01 PM
While I'm here, I'll say this also -
One of the things that concerns me about this road we're going down is the long (I mean really long) term picture (this is assuming we can engage in a war for a couple of few years without someone setting off a big one, or a couple of big ones, in which case the whole thing is moot.)
In his speech last night, Bush brought up Nazis. This is not like fighting Nazis. To paraphrase someone in an article I read recently, the thing about Nazis is the more of them you killed, the less of them there were. This is different, more complex, more dangerous.
When Helen brings up killing innocents, this involves more than a blithe - Who would you rather, our innocents or theirs? Or, a throwaway - Innocents always die in war, that's the nature of the thing.
Heck, innocents die every day, war or no. Kids die of cancer, innocent bystanders are mistakenly shot, kittens get smushed by cars. It's an ugly world, we all know that.
The thing about fighting a terrorist movement is you don't only have to fight them... you have to fight the descendants that were created by reaction to your original fight. The IRA terrorists of today are not the same people who were fighting 30 years ago.
The more you fan out in your fight, the more people are going to see that the terror is visited down by you. It does not matter who was originally in the right when your children die - you're going to want to put down whoever is responsible... and so are your other children, and their children, if it continues. This is what we're in danger of facing, and perhaps for generations - a large number of people who see that their children or other innocents were harmed by us.
posted on September 21, 2001 01:47:33 PM
Well I agree that one should never give blanket authority or support to anyone. I also agree that we need to stay alert and ask legitimate questions.
However I do have a problem with how those things are equated with harping over a term used in a speech?
I do not understand where constant name calling and pettiness are confused with diligent observation or even loyal opposition. It all just sounds like childish sniping to me.
Insults? I would never do that. I'm, almost, sure that it is against the board rules.
BTW, I'm not debating with you. I'm just asking a few questions, which you don't seem to want to answer. May I ask a couple of more questions (this one doesn't count)?
Do you feel we should NOT respond to attacks on this country?
Will it make the world love us, if we don't respond in kind?
posted on September 21, 2001 01:55:21 PM
The count is getting closer to 7,000 now. But what is a couple more thousand American lives? Back to name calling.
posted on September 21, 2001 02:04:17 PM
"All the worlds indeed a stage and we are merely players Performers and portraiers Each anothers audience outside the gilded cage"
A little verse from the great CANADIAN band, RUSH!
hjw, your logic makes as much sense as a cows' udder on a bull. As I believe someone else quoted in this forum not too long ago:
"Even Jesus used a whip from time to time"
All we gotta do is use a bigger, more accurate whip.
GGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRR, THATS' MY BONE!!
ubb boo-boo, I was drooling on the keys when I was typing
posted on September 21, 2001 02:04:45 PMand more importantly being allowed to do so
I can buy that.
Change "Bush Bashing" just for fun has to STOP.
to
Bush Bashing" just for fun ought to STOP
if we all agree as to the concept behind the term "Loyal Opposition.
Reading your post, I'm not sure.
stand as one to do what is needed," is one of the sentences in the first message in this thread. But how does that fit with the concept of "loyal opposition?"
We are fixing to (very very shortly, if my guess is correct) start serious military actions. Due to their very nature, much is going to be kept secret. A lot of it has to be kept secret, or we indanger our troops. Any "second guessing" is going to be just that, guessing. Unless Bush "really blows it" we should let him have his way. Only one person can drive the car, so to speak. On issues of National Security, we NEED to trust him. If he violates that trust, by all means, we will hold him accountable. We will know soon enough.
there is a difference between criticism and "Bush Bashing."
Absolutly. "The Tequilia Twins" was "Bush Bashing". Arsenic in drinking water wasn't.
posted on September 21, 2001 02:08:08 PM
Tequila, in my water. No wonder why I mistype so much URP microbes. I guess I must share my bone with you now, huh?
posted on September 21, 2001 02:14:34 PM
Deliteful
Thanks for the undate on the number of killed here. I have not engaged in name calling if your post was directed to me. In fact, I don't see any name calling by anyone here...just a few insults here and there.
Tex1
I believe that there is a better way to respond to this attack.
As I have indicated, if you missed my post, military attack only invites more hate which invites more attacks and the cycle goes on and on.
I believe that a response only to address vengence is a losing battle.
Even finding and bringing bin Laden to justice will not solve the problem because there are bin Laden types all over the world. As I said before, increased use of improved intelligence is the best way to find these terrorists. Bombing the poor people of Afganistan will accomplish nothing. It will only increase hatred toward this county.
But more important is to understand the cause of the hate that is felt toward our country.
Continued aid to Israel should be reconsidered.
The Afganistan people are living in a deplorable condition of poverty and oppression and they need help...not more bombs.
Helen
grammer ed.
[ edited by hjw on Sep 21, 2001 02:27 PM ]
posted on September 21, 2001 02:16:44 PM
"Unless Bush 'really blows it' we should let him have his way."
But, if Bush "really blows it" it will be too late to make any observations, won't it? Shouldn't we be making observations before it comes to that point?
For the record, I didn't think his daughters' drinking was a valid political issue, and I said so a couple of few times. On arsenic in water, I didn't offer an opinion, I just don't know enough about the issue to have an educated opinion, and didn't want to learn.
"On issues of National Security, we NEED to trust him. If he violates that trust, by all means, we will hold him accountable. We will know soon enough."
... Did you hear Ari Fleischer's press conference today? He basically said they won't be telling us what's going on, because that sort of information would endanger National security. How will we know when it's over? According to Fleischer, when we all feel safe. The question that needs to be asked is - How will we know when we can feel safe? The answer has to be - When they tell us we can feel safe...
This worries me quite a lot. And, since I'm cold-blooded and a political cynic, when I get worried, others might do well to be worried also.
posted on September 21, 2001 02:19:07 PM
The beauty about Democracy is that we have CHOICES: one can OPT to read Bush Bashing Threads, or OPT out... Same goes for RELIGIOOUS threads...In the end, it is all a matter of CHOICE...
At the moment, I am finding solace in planting my fall garden...Thought about Poppies, Sweet Alysum and Lobelia...but thought Bin Laden might use my garden as a target and blow up my house....
My second solace is in the discovery that I am NOT a monster: MANY do not care terribly much for Mr. Bush...but who said I HAD to love Cod Liver Oil?
Hi Antiquary...You are keeping smiling ...Thank you...
posted on September 21, 2001 02:22:03 PMhjw's quote"Continued aid to Israel should be reconsidered.".
What a farce!!! BEFORE we stop assisting one of our best and most stratigic allies, lets stop assisting China. And Pakastain. And other nations that are VERY HOSTILE towards the United States. And while we are at it, lets become the isolationist society that some posters seem to want in here.
ROOF!!
WOOF!WOOF!!GGGGRRRRRRR, leave my bone or I will slobber on you!
posted on September 21, 2001 02:27:32 PMBut, if Bush "really blows it" it will be too late to make any observations, won't it? Shouldn't we be making observations before it comes to that point?
What are you suggesting? That the Joint Chiefs all get together and have a press conference and lay the whole military part of the plan out for the whole world to look at? Betcha' $100 that Bin Laden and the Taliban would be watching CNN.
At last we agree on something. Let's abandon Israel. After all there isn't much there, but a bunch of Jews. No, we did that once. It sickened me then, and I was too young have made a difference. If we are too morally weak to defend Israel, we don't deserve to exist. Thank you, for letting us know where you stand.
posted on September 21, 2001 02:47:31 PM
Oh, that must be why the daddy lost the other effort--too much Arnold on TV. Good media though, wasn't it? Kept everyone rah rah-ing.
What makes anyone think that an opinion expressed here, in whatever form it takes, matters a lick and warrants this misplace evangelical peptalk?
There is no one here who can shame me, or embarrass me, or otherwise bring about any restriction on what I chose to say, and I believe that I have done more than almost all, if not all here, to earn the right to speak as I see fit. It's part of the compensation which I demand for my having been wounded twice in service to this country, and it was promised me by the letter of the establishment of veteran's policies by Abraham Lincoln following the Civil War.
posted on September 21, 2001 02:51:22 PM
Sorry, I had to leave my computer for a few minutes and get some air. I will never abandon Israel and, if this country were to do so, I would live out my days in Costa Rica.
posted on September 21, 2001 02:58:15 PM
Microbes, is there any criticism of Bush which has appeared in these threads which you would not characterize as "bashing"? Can you see that the automatic description of any criticism as "bashing" is just a little... well... fascist?
-gaffan- [email protected]
Pardon me, if I bow out. I didn't know this Texas country boy's feelings about Israel ran as deep as they do. It's better for me to chill out.
[ edited by Tex1 on Sep 21, 2001 03:19 PM ]
posted on September 21, 2001 03:21:41 PMOh, that must be why the daddy lost the other effort--too much Arnold on TV
I don't think so. But (I would hope you agree) they could have lost a lot more people if there hadn't been some "disinformation" put out, and some information that was held "close to the chest" until after the fact. (I don't beleive we're well served by keeping ANY of it secret "after the fact".)
To the extent the other effort was lost, it wasn't because the military portion of it was badly executed. They did what was asked of them, and did a fine job. I think possibly we stopped to soon, and the biggest mistake (IMO) was we didn't remove Saddam Hussein. So we where still left with the problem.
Even if you disagee with what is going to happen, don't we do our service people a disservice if we pry too hard into "operational plans"?
What makes anyone think that an opinion expressed here, in whatever form it takes, matters a lick
It doesn't. They are all just opinions, and we are all intitled to them.
I'm more conserned with the "real" media than anything said here. I really don't like them "prying" into military operations right before they happen. I think it does a disservice. Questioning the "why" is more the job (if that's the right word) of the media than the "how".
posted on September 21, 2001 03:29:02 PMMicrobes, is there any criticism of Bush which has appeared in these threads which you would not characterize as "bashing
Yes, a whole bunch of it was honest criticism. From his Tax Cut to his enviromental positions. And I'm all for watching and not letting him slip stuff by us.
I'm talking about the dumb jokes, and dragging his daughters threw the mud, and stuff like that. At a time like this, it's in poor taste.
posted on September 21, 2001 04:14:01 PMkrs - There is no one here who can shame me, or embarrass me, or otherwise bring about any restriction on what I chose to say, and I believe that I have done more than almost all, if not all here, to earn the right to speak as I see fit.
I thought I'd join into the sanctimony (not yours), and remind you that you fought for the right of all of us here to speak as we see fit. We don't even have to "earn" it, thanks to the likes of you, krs. I thank you, my father, and untold thousands for that.
And no...none of the rhetoric here matters a lick. It's a good reminder.
WOOF!WOOF!!GGGGRRRRRRR, leave my bone or I will slobber on you!
ubb and missing an I