posted on October 27, 2001 04:13:22 AM
I think that the people who insist that an unmoderated board cannot work are confusing unmoderated with claims of being unmoderated. Several of the offshoot boards which began with the claim were sooner or later revealed as being very heavily moderated in fact by the person or persons who initiated them. You all know what I'm referring to--the ego of the board 'owner' became the moderation and it was in no case moderate.
I agree with camachinist that common interest can result in a very successful unmoderated environment, and I am member of nine of those in two areas of interest as well as two more in one other area. I go there for what those communities offer in the subject areas. Friendships' do develop in all of them but always within the scopee of the subject. The yahoo clubs offer member boards on just about any subject that could be imagined and are very different from the yahoo chat areas.
Here though, with such a diverse moral stance amongst posters it will not work to everyone's satisfaction. Morality isn't an interest that could be shared or discussed, it's a personal issue to defend as an individual. Each has his own and will resent the imposition of another set of values which by their nature call to question the values of the target.
Although this started as a forum of people with a copmmunal interest in auctioning it has, or the RT has, become quite something else. Call it a general debate site and stick to that it could work, but not as a safe place for fluffy idiocy or hardline morality to be accepted without objections.
posted on October 27, 2001 04:50:55 AM
There are two types of people that damage a conversation. The kind that can not yield or shut up until they have browbeat everyone into agreeing with them because it is all PERSONAL.
And the really hatefull ones who don't really have any strong views but are either entertained by conflict or feel uncomfortable in it's absence.
Their long tirades will mean that long after everyone else is done with a thread they will stay there saying the same things over and over until shear fatique drives them away.
I don't think it will be pretty.
posted on October 27, 2001 09:34:18 AMCall it a general debate site and stick to that it could work, but not as a safe place for fluffy idiocy or hardline morality to be accepted without objections.
I agree. But here comes the "however" part
However, RT is titled and was originally began as "general" chat. Make a friend, tell a joke..yadda yadda. This includes fluff for those who wanted it, and it looks like some do. I have also seen those not with the labels of "fluffy" join in from time to time. There should be room for all topics, but what should be or could be, are two different things. Hardline morality issues also are popular because everyone has their own opinions. Unfortunately, people tend to forget it IS just an opinion stated by said poster(s) and a free for all starts on which group/person sides with which group/persons thinking or opinion stated. Its "think as I do, or be ostracized" sorta thing. If all were accepted as unique individuals, then it could work. But I just dont see that happening. If I am proved wrong, I would be a happy camper. Takes time to prove something, and IMHO, I dont think the forums here will be around long enough to do the proving.
posted on October 27, 2001 10:03:43 AMCall it a general debate site and stick to that it could work, but not as a safe place for fluffy idiocy
I think what he said, is that like one other board I read, there should be the GUYS forum and the WOMENS forum. Of course the gender rule is not enforced and there are overlaps but the THEME is implied.
Cars, political arguments, fluff bashing.
v.
Polite conversation, medical and family issues, poetry threads.
With that in place, I don't think I have ever seen moderation on either of those threads come to think of it. All the modreation happens in the mixed gender areas.
Yes, this area DID once say tell "a joke, make a friend..."
posted on October 27, 2001 10:22:18 AM
I think it's boring too which is why I post here and not there. It's KRS who complains constantly. Personally I like the diversity and know how to ignore anything that does not interest me and find something that does.
Note how I began my statment:
I think what he said,
Or the other option is that he oft implies, that women should not speak unless spoken to perhaps? Or that only things of interest to him should be posted at all?
Let's elect KRS moderator....NOT!
~it's early for grammar
[ edited by jt on Oct 27, 2001 10:52 AM ]
posted on October 27, 2001 10:30:12 AM
The problem that I see on this board, moderated or unmoderated, is the desire to put people into different "camps", to "choose sides". That becomes the source of division. None of us agree with each other on all issues. When I state my opinion, it's mine alone even though someone else may feel the same way on that particular issue. I don't need backup. I just don't understand the e-mail loop thing where a predictible number of people suddenly appear to backup a poster.
posted on October 27, 2001 10:49:02 AM
Terri, the men are to go smoke their cigars and drink their port in the study while the women retire to the parlor to discuss sewing, child raising, and what to plan for supper? lol...I think not. Not on this end anyway.
saabsister you said I just don't understand the e-mail loop thing where a predictible number of people suddenly appear to backup a poster.. I dont understand what you mean. If someone agrees or disagrees with what someone else said and comments on it, that means there is an email loop?
posted on October 27, 2001 10:53:07 AM
Terri, Im playing with ya.
Want a mint julep?
Or the other option is that he oft implies, that women should not speak unless spoken to perhaps? Or that only things of interest to him should be posted at all?Some of what you said can apply to many in this forum, NOT "just" krs, Terri. Thats what I have seen anyway.
[ edited by hepburn on Oct 27, 2001 10:56 AM ]
posted on October 27, 2001 10:56:57 AM
Uh..no. Coffee would be nice. I am in my robe. Haven't had a shower yet.
I just read that there was an earthquake in Manhattan and Brooklyn that knocked china and pictures off the walls this morning. Gave everyone a start and had some running out into the street in their jammies.
posted on October 27, 2001 11:06:31 AM
To briefly touch on the "division" that was brought up, IF there is an email loop, that same concept can apply to those who dont comment at all until they decide to pop in with "I have been sitting on my hands, BUT I cant anymore and ......", or the dreaded "I wasnt going to say anything, BUT....". Everyone is entitled to their opinions, or so the saying goes. That is, unless someone else "decides" they "just cant stay quiet any longer" and "must" say their piece, knowing full well what they "must" say will just cause further irritation to the one they "gotta" say it to. All in the interest of speaking their opinion, of course.
posted on October 27, 2001 11:07:04 AM
Terri - I saw the earthquake news too. How frightened everyone must have been. I hope it's the only one they have. The danger to the workers at the Tower site in a major earthquake is too scarey to think about.
posted on October 27, 2001 11:07:22 AM
No, Hepburn. There will always be agreement or disagreement when someone takes a firm stand on an issue. What I mean are the posters who seldom post, but suddenly appear en masse to back up a particular poster. It's a phenomenon that's been observable here for a long time. (My husband and I could almost predict when it would happen - we'd guess how many? and who?) It's almost like a tally of the votes - the "yeas" win by a vote of 12 to 5. It's just something that I don't see in real life unless it's a club vote on where to hold a party or how to change the by-laws. Maybe, I'm too opinionated or march to a different drummer. (If something I own becomes "popular", I quickly sell it and get something different.)
posted on October 27, 2001 12:15:12 PM
Funny how differently people perceive other people.
The KRS Terri describes is completely different from the KRS I know.
I've certainly never gotten the impression that he would prefer a separation of forums for men's subjects and women's subjects. Ken is living very much in the 21st C.
He clearly respects intelligence and wit. Gender doesn't enter into it.
posted on October 27, 2001 12:27:13 PM
Just want to jump in here to back up Femme.
I've never seen that KRS either. I've never seen anyone that acts like they think women should be segregated. The discussion is the thing not the sex of the poster. I have always preferred the political threads and the serious discussions over the lighter threads. I do participate in some of them but they really aren't my thing as a whole.
I do believe self moderation can work here.People have to allow others to have differing opinions and they have to be willing to behave as adults and not get offended over every little thing. There is hope.
I am thinking that I may stay for awhile to see how things go. Of course that doesn't mean I won't be visiting elsewhere from time to time.
posted on October 27, 2001 12:34:16 PM
It's that pack, or clique, mentality, SS.
It's happened on every board I've seen. All of a sudden people come from everywhere.
It even happened to me on the Q&A board when I was new on eBay. It upset me terribly because I was new to the Internet and certainly did not expect that for stating my opinion.
I've worked in businesses where men were in the majority, and I've worked in businesses where women are in the majority. Men are much more receptive to individualism than women.
posted on October 27, 2001 01:10:14 PM
Coming late to a discussion to voice an opinion...
Perhaps people should remember that there are different time zones represented here.
If an East Coaster comes in early the next morning to state their opinion on a subject from the night before, it does not mean they are trying to perpetuate it. They certainly are not forcing anyone to reply.
posted on October 27, 2001 01:31:56 PM
Not only the time zones, Femme. I'm a morning person and not a night owl. Sometimes I'm up until 11:30 EST. But when I wake up a whole thread may have materialized overnight. But I'll want to comment.
SS, you and I would get along well. I bet you wouldn't even expect me to go along to the bathroom with you were we out to dinner with our spouses. What's that all about?
posted on October 27, 2001 01:47:30 PM
Femme and Saabsister:
I remember university being quite a shock to me after high school. I enrolled in Commerce on impulse (because Arts required that I take at least one science course ). I suddenly found myself in an environment where I was often the only female in the class. There were only 40 of us women spread over the 4 year programme.
When I went out into the business world to my first job, I was expected to attend a lot of outside business lunches (Wall Street type crowd). Again, I was often the only female in the room. Not only that, I was usually half the age of everyone else and as a young trainee, my salary was probably only a fraction of what everyone else was earning.
Yet, despite that, on the rare occasions I did see another female in the room, I stayed as far away from her as I could. There was no damn way I was going to visibly show any insecurities. Women just seem to naturally "flock", particularly when they are unsure of themselves.
posted on October 27, 2001 01:52:58 PM
"Can Self Moderation Work?"
I actually can say yes to that question.
But, the self moderation has to be just that...self.
That means self-control and respect for others.
If you practice that in your real life, there is no excuse for not practicing it on the Internet.
You know, the more I think about it, there is another board (which I'm sure many read) that is pretty much self-moderated and things very rarely get out of hand.
I do think it could work here.
My issue is the CC thing, and the not knowing what AW has in mind for the future.
